Inner Room for home cinema - Building Regs?

[oadbyone]

Hi, I’m looking for a bit of advice regarding a project i’m hoping to get completed, I have contacted our local building control guys to see if this is OK to do but i'm still awaiting their reply. It is a fairly straight forward job with no structural work involved and no change in usage, above our double garage we have a large 7.75 x 5.93m room that is used as a cinema room and a study. I have had a builder in to quote to partition the current cinema area of the room, this would involve building stud walls to create a 5 x 3.6m area so I can install in-wall speakers and a projector. The builder is pretty certain that I wouldn’t need building reg approval but I thought it would be worth checking as it would be an inner room. I have attached a plan I created which may explain the layout better. Does anybody know if this would be acceptable and if so would it need any regs approval? Thanks Karl

[Temp]

They may say the new room is classed as a habitable room. If they do then you ma need another exit route and ventilation. 

[tonyshouse]

How many doors to get to outside? 

[Pocster]

What type of movies do you wish to show ? . Asking for a friend 

[oadbyone]

12 hours ago, tonyshouse said:

How many doors to get to outside? 

The existing door is onto the landing, then downstairs to the front door. Cheers.

[oadbyone]

15 hours ago, Temp said:

They may say the new room is classed as a habitable room. If they do then you ma need another exit route and ventilation. 

Thats my concern, the builder who was supposed to start next week was certain it wouldn't need any regs but I bumped into an old friend who works in commercial construction and he thought as its an inner room with no window I may run into problems if we ever sold the house and we hadn't run it past building control. Quick question, i'm very naive to this but when does it become classed as a room, if I didn't put a door on the new area and it was left just as an opening would they still class it as a room?

[Radian]

I'm not 100% sure but I think designation as a 'store room' might give it the status you require. The second fix electricals might be hard to justify though.

[Temp]

55 minutes ago, oadbyone said:

Thats my concern, the builder who was supposed to start next week was certain it wouldn't need any regs but I bumped into an old friend who works in commercial construction and he thought as its an inner room with no window I may run into problems if we ever sold the house and we hadn't run it past building control. Quick question, i'm very naive to this but when does it become classed as a room, if I didn't put a door on the new area and it was left just as an opening would they still class it as a room?

 

There is a difference between "meeting Building Regulations" and the need for "Building Control Approval". In general you should always meet the regulations but you don't always need to make  Building Control Application. That might be where your builder is coming from. 

 

In general erecting a non structural partition wall doesn't require a Building Control  Application but there will be Building Regulations which it should comply with..

 

Not an official source but..

 

https://www.diy-extra.co.uk/stud-wall-regulations.html

 

Just the relevant bits..

 

Quote

 

Fire Safety

If you are dividing a large bedroom into two smaller rooms, you must ensure that there is at least one window in each of the two new rooms. This is to ensure that there is a possible escape route in case of fire. If the floor level outside the new window would be more than 4.5m, you would also need to create an alternative to jumping (fire escape ladder, etc).

 

Sound Insulation

Sound insulation may be required if your stud wall is dividing a bedroom from another room, or a bathroom/WC from another room. Sound insulation can be achieved by using sound-resistant plasterboard or by filling the gaps between the studs with sheets of dense insulation material. There are many options available and it is worth speaking to a specialist supplier to find the best solution for you.

 

Ventilation

If your new stud wall will be creating a new room, you will need to ensure there is adequate ventilation. The room should be able to be “purged” by opening a window, and there should also be trickle ventilation built in to the window frame or other area of the room. If you are creating a new kitchen, bathroom, utility room or WC, you should also consider a mechanical extraction fan.

 

It might be possible to comply with the fire escape regulations by providing two internal doors instead of a window. I think you are allowed to rely on a window in another room provided you don't have to go via a staircase or landing to get there. I know this applies to en-suite bathrooms but not sure about a home cinema. 

 

 

 

[Nickfromwales]

Extending the smoke detection system into there would be a no brainer. If you’re watching a movie and a smouldering fire starts, ideally you’d want to have, at the minimum, a strobe in the rear corner, but better to also have a multi sensor detector in there if the AV equipment lives in there too. Prob one in the outside ‘corridor’ that you would then create. 
A 5mm undercut on the door, plus a silent extractor fan in the corner opposite the door would be needed for mechanical ventilation, as a 3-4 people in there for 2 hours will all use up the clean air pdq. 

[oadbyone]

55 minutes ago, Temp said:

 

There is a difference between "meeting Building Regulations" and the need for "Building Control Approval". In general you should always meet the regulations but you don't always need to make  Building Control Application. That might be where your builder is coming from. 

 

In general erecting a non structural partition wall doesn't require a Building Control  Application but there will be Building Regulations which it should comply with..

 

Not an official source but..

 

https://www.diy-extra.co.uk/stud-wall-regulations.html

 

Just the relevant bits..

 

 

It might be possible to comply with the fire escape regulations by providing two internal doors instead of a window. I think you are allowed to rely on a window in another room provided you don't have to go via a staircase or landing to get there. I know this applies to en-suite bathrooms but not sure about a home cinema. 

 

 

 

Thanks, that is the best explanation i've seen. I might let him get on with the job but just make sure I comply, struggling to get any reply from our local building control.

[oadbyone]

4 minutes ago, Nickfromwales said:

Extending the smoke detection system into there would be a no brainer. If you’re watching a movie and a smouldering fire starts, ideally you’d want to have, at the minimum, a strobe in the rear corner, but better to also have a multi sensor detector in there if the AV equipment lives in there too. Prob one in the outside ‘corridor’ that you would then create. 
A 5mm undercut on the door, plus a silent extractor fan in the corner opposite the door would be needed for mechanical ventilation, as a 3-4 people in there for 2 hours will all use up the clean air pdq. 

Thanks, I mentioned to building control about installing one of these in the loft above - Vent Axia Positive Input Ventilation Unit along with a couple of small vents in the two of the corners.. Would that work?

[Conor]

1 hour ago, Radian said:

I'm not 100% sure but I think designation as a 'store room' might give it the status you require. The second fix electricals might be hard to justify though.

Unlikely to cut it for a room that size. Our architect said to keep internal store and wardrobe rooms to less than 2m wide as then you're unlikely to be able to use it for sleeping or leisure. 

 

From my experience with BC, that room will need its own means of escape.

 

All you need to do is form a hallway lobby at the existing door and have the door in to each room there... So they both exit via the hallway, not through each other. So basically move the cinema room door slightly up, bring a wall across the existing room just past the window, put a door in, and job done.

[CharlieKLP]

It needs a window. Also it makes a really awkward space, just split it in half maybe?

[Radian]

23 minutes ago, Conor said:

From my experience with BC, that room will need its own means of escape.

 

How about a trapdoor & ladder to garage below?

[CharlieKLP]

I think it would have to be a proper escape stair, and the garage would need to be a protected area too for that to work. I tried doing something similar and it needed a permanent stair.

[Conor]

43 minutes ago, Radian said:

How about a trapdoor & ladder to garage below?

Ah, didn't realise it was a first floor. That complicates things as the escape route needs to be protected. And you'll also need an escape window.

[Radian]

2 hours ago, CharlieKLP said:

I think it would have to be a proper escape stair, and the garage would need to be a protected area too for that to work. I tried doing something similar and it needed a permanent stair.

If you're right that would be bonkers - given that defenestration from a first floor window is considered to be a safe method of egress.🙄

[Nickfromwales]

6 hours ago, oadbyone said:

Thanks, I mentioned to building control about installing one of these in the loft above - Vent Axia Positive Input Ventilation Unit along with a couple of small vents in the two of the corners.. Would that work?

Yup. But it would be bringing cold air in unless you had an in-line or integral heater running. That would be very thirsty on electricity. 
Far better to try and circulate the air from the original room which would be at ambient temp imho. 

[ETC]

On 05/05/2022 at 17:20, oadbyone said:

Hi, I’m looking for a bit of advice regarding a project i’m hoping to get completed, I have contacted our local building control guys to see if this is OK to do but i'm still awaiting their reply. It is a fairly straight forward job with no structural work involved and no change in usage, above our double garage we have a large 7.75 x 5.93m room that is used as a cinema room and a study. I have had a builder in to quote to partition the current cinema area of the room, this would involve building stud walls to create a 5 x 3.6m area so I can install in-wall speakers and a projector. The builder is pretty certain that I wouldn’t need building reg approval but I thought it would be worth checking as it would be an inner room. I have attached a plan I created which may explain the layout better. Does anybody know if this would be acceptable and if so would it need any regs approval? Thanks Karl

You will need BC input. It’s an inner room and there are a number of options available. Post the rest of the upstairs layout including the location of the staircase.

[Temp]

I think you would get away with another door in the wall facing the window and an extractor fan.

[ETC]

7 hours ago, Conor said:

Unlikely to cut it for a room that size. Our architect said to keep internal store and wardrobe rooms to less than 2m wide as then you're unlikely to be able to use it for sleeping or leisure. 

 

From my experience with BC, that room will need its own means of escape.

 

All you need to do is form a hallway lobby at the existing door and have the door in to each room there... So they both exit via the hallway, not through each other. So basically move the cinema room door slightly up, bring a wall across the existing room just past the window, put a door in, and job done.

@ConorNearly. Don’t form a lobby. Relocate the door into the “Existing Room” to the bottom of the “New Room” wall therefore creating two separate rooms (however each room must be accessible from the stairwell hall). Each room needs an EEW OR a communication door between each room with an EEW in one room only - both rooms still need to be accessible from the staircase hallway leading down and out without passing through another room. That’s my understanding.

[ETC]

Don’t forget that there will be other regulations you will have to comply with. Rapid and Background Ventilation will be required and you will more than likely need a smoke alarm in any newly created circulation spaces. You won’t need to insulate for sound but you may wish to do so to reduce reverberation inside the room.

[oadbyone]

19 hours ago, ETC said:

You will need BC input. It’s an inner room and there are a number of options available. Post the rest of the upstairs layout including the location of the staircase.

Plan of the house attached, I have pasted the inner room onto it. Thanks for all the replies, seems to be getting a bit complicated and i'm struggling to get any reply from our local BC company. I'm thinking I might change it and make the two new walls half walls (pony walls?) around 1.5m high so its more open plan but I could still use in-wall speakers. Wont get the same level of sound proofing but to be honest I currently don't get too much sound leakage into the rest of the house anyway. I guess this would be OK as there wont be any issues with ventilation and fire regs?

[Radian]

1 hour ago, oadbyone said:

Plan of the house attached, I have pasted the inner room onto it.

Why did you orient it that way around? If it was rotated 90' to mirror bed 4 I can't see it would make the room significantly smaller and then the space wasted by extending the corridor along as suggested above would be considerably less.

[oadbyone]

20 hours ago, Radian said:

Why did you orient it that way around? If it was rotated 90' to mirror bed 4 I can't see it would make the room significantly smaller and then the space wasted by extending the corridor along as suggested above would be considerably less.

I did initially plan it that way but for the projector and screen size I was looking at it made the projector throw distance very tight. I know it is only slightly longer but the projector could go back nearly half a meter. Now i've learnt about the issues with inner rooms if rotated it would still have the same problem as the door to the cinema room would still go into the existing area.