PaulD Posted March 24, 2022 Share Posted March 24, 2022 Hi, currently in the early stages of a 4/5 bedroom Class Q in the middle of nowhere in rural Staffordshire. Looked at Klargester, but heard bad reports about too many moving parts and issues. Heard good things about Vortex. I don't claim to be anywhere knowledgeable in this area, so apologies in advance ... Here's a bit of info - Got lots of space in surrounding fields and drainage ditches nearby I think I'm right in saying I can go straight into a drainage ditch and don't need a drainage field Is there a solution out there which can cope with stuff like baby wipes, even though it might need emptying ultimately ? Is there a solution which is more tolerant of bleaches and cleaning products etc I think I'm right in saying that all these treatment plants require power ? Looking for a very quiet solution, less noise the better ! Any real world advice most welcome, thanks in advance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProDave Posted March 24, 2022 Share Posted March 24, 2022 Yes I think almost everyone would advise against a treatment plant with moving mechanical parts such as the one you mentioned. There are many on here with different variations on the air blower treatment plants and I think most are happy with them. From memory the plants used by forum members are Vortex, Conder (me) Graff and Bio Pure. The manufacturers all seem to be a little lacking with quietness and tend to put the air blower in a plastic box that can often act like a drum and make the noise worse. In those cases people have had good results taking the blower out of the unit and building a brick or concrete box to house it instead. You don't want to be putting baby wipes, cotton buds certain womens products etc into a treatment plant. The old saying is don't put anything into it that you have not eaten first. And avoid bleach and use more friendly cleaning products. All treatment plants need emptying (desludging) every couple of years. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saveasteading Posted March 25, 2022 Share Posted March 25, 2022 3 hours ago, ProDave said: the plants used by forum members are And Marsh Industries 3 hours ago, ProDave said: All treatment plants need emptying (desludging) every couple of years. In theory it can be much longer. It depends on what people have been eating, and if the tank was the right spec. They are designed for a house being fully occupied, so a lower occupancy will not stretch it and there won't be much crud. I have been down in our 'country cess tank' after desludging to repair the pipes. What a lot of interesting things have been flushed over the years. Plus a load of timber and tile waste that a roofer had decided were easier chucked in there than in the van. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToughButterCup Posted March 25, 2022 Share Posted March 25, 2022 11 hours ago, PaulD said: ... Any real world advice most welcome, thanks in advance. Minimum number of moving parts Bury the air blower ( in a ventilated container ) Buy two air pumps (keep one spare - breakdown; replace (£186) and send the other for maintenance: zero down-time.) For us Bio Pure works a treat. Ticks the boxes above. Self installed: 3tonne digger, level, a tonne or so of concrete. Run from a fused switched spur on armoured cable. Loads of similar threads on BH. Here's an evening's quiet fire-side reading And here's a two minute laugh - it is Friday after all. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnMo Posted March 25, 2022 Share Posted March 25, 2022 I'm using a Harlequin Hydroclear 6, been running for about 6 months no issue. No moving parts except compressor. As mentioned, in the plastic box they are make more noise than they could. You can hear ours from about 6m away after you can't, will be planting around the compressor box to dampen down the noise further. You shouldn't put baby wipes etc in any toilet! They are plastic and don't decompose. All treatment plants rely on bugs to breakdown the waste in the treatment plant. Bleach (chlorine) kills them. You can use it sparingly, we do one toilet at a time and leave in the toilet for as long as possible before flushing. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe90 Posted March 25, 2022 Share Posted March 25, 2022 +1 to all the above, because we are on clay we run our outlet to a ditch but because it’s dry part of the year it needs to use a rumble drain (this is a perforated pipe buried in drainage stone) between unit and ditch. Our is a Vortex and yes I buried the air pump in the ground to subdue the noise. You don’t need a second pump in my opinion, it’s only the diaphragms that breakdown and I have a spare set in the pump housing ready. The advantage of using a ditch is it saves the cost of burying a drainage field which can clog over the years. Also the Vortex has a collection box at its input, this allows “illegal” items to be collected and not clog up the works. (We had had visitors that have forgotten the rules). Mine has been in three years and not needed emptying yet. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesP Posted March 25, 2022 Share Posted March 25, 2022 59 minutes ago, joe90 said: +1 to all the above, because we are on clay we run our outlet to a ditch but because it’s dry part of the year it needs to use a rumble drain (this is a perforated pipe buried in drainage stone) between unit and ditch. Our is a Vortex and yes I buried the air pump in the ground to subdue the noise. You don’t need a second pump in my opinion, it’s only the diaphragms that breakdown and I have a spare set in the pump housing ready. The advantage of using a ditch is it saves the cost of burying a drainage field which can clog over the years. Also the Vortex has a collection box at its input, this allows “illegal” items to be collected and not clog up the works. (We had had visitors that have forgotten the rules). Mine has been in three years and not needed emptying yet. Hi Joe, Can you give me some advice regarding rumble / rumbling drain. We have been using the Vortex for a few years with the outlet to a ditch but is dry a lot of the year. I am thinking of adding a rumble drain, perforated pipe bedded in gravel with a geotex membrane. What size system did you install? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nod Posted March 25, 2022 Share Posted March 25, 2022 We used a matrix last time Simple to fit Cheap and easy to run Ive just ordered another 9 pop matrix for our next £2681 plus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe90 Posted March 25, 2022 Share Posted March 25, 2022 50 minutes ago, JamesP said: What size system did you install? My run from plant to ditch was 12m, 2 m ordinary pipe then 10m perforated pipe in a 400mm wide trench, 200mm stone below and 100mm above, plastic on top then top soil, all the way to the ditch. Make sure you put a grid on the ditch end, I got a rat in my plant which blocked the pump (it started to smell) but all well now I fished it out. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesP Posted March 25, 2022 Share Posted March 25, 2022 3 minutes ago, joe90 said: My run from plant to ditch was 12m, 2 m ordinary pipe then 10m perforated pipe in a 400mm wide trench, 200mm stone below and 100mm above, plastic on top then top soil, all the way to the ditch. Make sure you put a grid on the ditch end, I got a rat in my plant which blocked the pump (it started to smell) but all well now I fished it out. It is an open ended system not sealed like the enclosed image above? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saveasteading Posted March 25, 2022 Share Posted March 25, 2022 16 minutes ago, joe90 said: perforated pipe You can use expensive pipe, (either the brown drain pipe with slices cut in it, or ready made black perforated pipe) that is lovely and smooth on the inside. this is what the Building Inspector would like you to use. Or cheap coiled agricultural stuff (a fraction of the cost). Theoretically the crinkles will fill with crud on the bottom and it won't work so well, but you could always use the next size up if that is a concern. The only real issue is keeping it running to a fall, but perfectly possible, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe90 Posted March 25, 2022 Share Posted March 25, 2022 1 minute ago, saveasteading said: You can use expensive pipe, Yes, I was gobsmacked when I saw the bill, i would have bought plain pipe and drilled loads of holes, I was told not to use ribbed flexible as it tended to hang on to “stuff” (then again it should be clean by then 🤷♂️ 19 minutes ago, JamesP said: It is an open ended system not sealed like the enclosed image above? Yes, just ran out to the ditch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wil Posted March 25, 2022 Share Posted March 25, 2022 What's the issue with running the 'clean' out from the treatment plant to a ditch which is occasionally dry? Surely, there's a small wet patch in the ditch where the pipe exits and no other issues? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamieled Posted March 25, 2022 Share Posted March 25, 2022 11 minutes ago, Wil said: What's the issue with running the 'clean' out from the treatment plant to a ditch which is occasionally dry? Surely, there's a small wet patch in the ditch where the pipe exits and no other issues? Env regulators prefer there to be some dilution for direct discharge to surface water. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProDave Posted March 25, 2022 Share Posted March 25, 2022 3 minutes ago, jamieled said: Env regulators prefer there to be some dilution for direct discharge to surface water. We had to do the same. SEPA in Scotland seem less keen on draining to a watercourse and only allowed that for us after rejecting a different proposal. But insisted the discharge pipe pass through a small partial soakaway first (same as a rumble drain, different name) so when the water table is low, some will soak into the ground and reduce the discharge into the burn. I think it is to do with dilution rates, in the summer when it is dry the flow rate in the burn drops, so if you can discharge some locally and reduce the discharge in dry conditions, you maintain a good dilution rate. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saveasteading Posted March 25, 2022 Share Posted March 25, 2022 42 minutes ago, ProDave said: to do with dilution rates Yes, and also prevents sudden discharges of untreated sewage in cases of bad installation/ no maintenance/ overuse/rain connected and washing it through, curry night. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nod Posted March 25, 2022 Share Posted March 25, 2022 2 hours ago, JamesP said: It is an open ended system not sealed like the enclosed image above? We are 70 meters from plant to ditch I’m hoping BC accept this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe90 Posted March 25, 2022 Share Posted March 25, 2022 27 minutes ago, nod said: We are 70 meters from plant to ditch I’m hoping BC accept this I don’t see why not, just make sure you’re plant says to discharge to a ditch like my Vortex does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnMo Posted March 25, 2022 Share Posted March 25, 2022 Were next to a Loch of special scientific interest, had to go though lots of hoops even to get planning. Our treatment plant is near house we then have to pump the outfall 100m to the soakaway to an area, outside the area of influence of the loch. Our percolation test also fails the normal test, as we are on an old sand dune. So I think we have the biggest hole for a soakaway ever. This is it part way through digging out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToughButterCup Posted March 25, 2022 Share Posted March 25, 2022 Fookin' Ello! 'Owmanee peepl's in your place? A football team? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saveasteading Posted March 25, 2022 Share Posted March 25, 2022 Fails because percolation is too fast through the sand? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnMo Posted March 25, 2022 Share Posted March 25, 2022 3 bed. The stupidity of the SEPA rules. They have a limit high/low for the water to soakaway during the test. Above or below that limit is classed as fail. So if you are on bedrock or sand you end up with a huge over sized soakaway. Good thing is it should never clog up. Doesn't look quite so bad with the piping and the lower stone bed. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saveasteading Posted March 25, 2022 Share Posted March 25, 2022 The Scottish 'too fast' fail is a higher rate than the English fail....fair enough perhaps because of the water quality on average. So what is the solution here? Taken below the level that might reach the loch, or into a denser stratum?? Fortunately ours passed in sand, so is ideal. Ours is glacial sand yours ancient dunes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nod Posted March 25, 2022 Share Posted March 25, 2022 42 minutes ago, joe90 said: I don’t see why not, just make sure you’re plant says to discharge to a ditch like my Vortex does. Thanks Joe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnMo Posted March 25, 2022 Share Posted March 25, 2022 35 minutes ago, saveasteading said: So what is the solution here? Taken below the level that might reach the loch, or into a denser stratum?? Think it's a combination of distance and partly elevation, but mostly distance. Ours big a really deep hole because the hill is really steep at the only place we could site the soakaway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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