1920 1.5 storey bungalow/chalet. Looking at either second floor or rebuild.

[LaCurandera]

Hi all,

 

Been lurking here for quite a while, and  thank you for all the help I’ve read already. 
 

Last year we purchased a 1.5 storey chalet bungalow (not sure what’s it really called!), 14m x 45m plot. 160sq m currently. Main issue is that the 1st floor is within a tent roof (don’t know the right term, but all corners finish at a central chimney) so really affects the headroom.

 

We’re in the process of digging some holes around the existing foundations to see if a full 2nd storey plus roof will be possible. Really hope so, not sure we have the budget for a build as we could much more easily phase a renovation. 
 

Will be asking for much help I’m sure, few things such as: 

 

• What order to appoint architect for the design / Structural engineer for the foundations or Builder for ideas of costs. In that how much does being RIBA matter for the architect as we’ve seen some significant developments on planning applications that aren’t from RIBA practices. 
• I understand that planning is granted for 3 years. But if you’re phasing the building of things that are in the submission, but quite easy to separate (eg adding a garage that might be a year after from initial build), is that still ok? Is there a timescale you have to hit the granted plan?
• Where the best bits of a build are to save money (except labour).  Ie is it better to skimp on cheaper kitchen as you’ll replace in 10 years anyway? Where have major renovations had buyers remorse on more optional spend?

 

There’ll be many more hand will likely ask these in the right forums too), look forward to being part of the community
 

 

[Iceverge]

 

 

Welcome welcome. 

 

Knock and rebuild in my book if it's within budget. 

 

Get a passivhaus architect who respects the limits of your wallet.

 

Get planning and really nail the design. Right down to the last coat hook and socket. 

 

Tender to a range of top builders. 

 

Pick the best recommended. 

 

Enjoy your flash new house. Easy. 

Edited January 16, 2022 by Iceverge

[ProDave]

Re planning permission.  the requirement is that you "start" the development within 3 years.  So if the planning lists a whole load of things, just starting one of them locks in the planning permission.  I could take you round our local town and show you 3 house plots where the foundations and ground floor slab have been built to lock in the planning permission and have now sat like that for more than 3 years.

[Bitpipe]

10 hours ago, Iceverge said:

 

 

Welcome welcome. 

 

Knock and rebuild in my book if it's within budget. 

 

Get a passivhaus architect who respects the limits of your wallet.

 

Get planning and really nail the design. Right down to the last coat hook and socket. 

 

Tender to a range of top builders. 

 

Pick the best recommended. 

 

Enjoy your flash new house. Easy. 

 

Completely agree with this approach, exactly what we did.

 

For a start, you'll be zero rated VAT for the build vs 20% for renovations.

 

Even with a traditional renovation, you'll quickly reduce that to a shell and will need to replace a lot of it regardless. 

 

The pain of renovation is tying new in with old, as you strip back you just keep discovering more problems.

 

Also you get a house that performs consistently vs a poorly insulated, draughty downstairs and a well insulated airtight second floor.

[saveasteading]

1 hour ago, Bitpipe said:

The pain of renovation is tying new in with old, as you strip back you just keep discovering more problems.

I agree with most above.

I've done major refurbs several times and there have always been nasty surprises, and I had seen plenty of challenges but was still caught out.

Usually the surprises are a previous owner/ builder bodges.

I don't regret any of the decisions because the result was good for us/family to live in and commercially sound too.

 

So if you are expert and hands on , you might risk a repair.

 

But, a bungalow gets extended upwards to avoid moving, not as a commercial decision.

 

And commercially, this would always be a converted bungalow, with a ceiling to its resale value. Better a modern customised house.

 

If you need an Architect, start from there.

 

questions on kitchen suppliers are a long way down your list, so ask again next year.   But I think the vote on here at the moment is towards Howdens which is good enough for most people.

 

For best value house, just make sure it is easy to build....and we can all help with that.

You should start with what you want from your NEW house.

[Zak S]

Hi. Just making it a bit visual using an example of renovation as to what could be done and the costing and value impact. Below is the picture of a refurbishment of a two story house (before and after) which was done to a very high standard with c40% extension. It costed between c300-400k in 2015. It recently sold generating c175k in profits. But the original house would also have increased in value by c150k in terms of just house price inflation. So not significant profit on refurbishment if you take the inflation out. May be a bit of loss in today's prices.

 

So if doing refurbishment to a high/decent standard it might not cost significantly less than new house build hence new build should be serious option. Plus for both either new build or refurbishment, possibility of generous profit if you are doing first project is quite small hence as others said simplicity and getting the design right is the key plus a state of mind that you are doing it to live in it rather than as a property developer would certainly help in terms of getting expectation realistic.

 

 

[LaCurandera]

Thanks all for the welcome, and will certainly be spending a lot of time on here!

 

Great to hear thoughts on renovation vs build. The architects we’ve briefly spoken to have said go for rebuild, but at £1500-£2000 sq m I can‘t see us having the funds to do what you could on the plot. 
 

Ultimately, we hope this is a forever home, or at least a home we choose to move out of, rather than a must move to get more space etc. 

 

Next step is spending money with an architect, so will see what they say (once we pick one!).

[LaCurandera]

3 hours ago, Zak S said:

Hi. Just making it a bit visual using an example of renovation as to what could be done and the costing and value impact. Below is the picture of a refurbishment of a two story house (before and after) which was done to a very high standard with c40% extension. It costed between c300-400k in 2015. It recently sold generating c175k in profits. But the original house would also have increased in value by c150k in terms of just house price inflation. So not significant profit on refurbishment if you take the inflation out. May be a bit of loss in today's prices.

 

So if doing refurbishment to a high/decent standard it might not cost significantly less than new house build hence new build should be serious option. Plus for both either new build or refurbishment, possibility of generous profit if you are doing first project is quite small hence as others said simplicity and getting the design right is the key plus a state of mind that you are doing it to live in it rather than as a property developer would certainly help in terms of getting expectation realistic.

 

 

Thanks @Zak Sthat’s a great example to see

[LaCurandera]

7 hours ago, ProDave said:

Re planning permission.  the requirement is that you "start" the development within 3 years.  So if the planning lists a whole load of things, just starting one of them locks in the planning permission.  I could take you round our local town and show you 3 house plots where the foundations and ground floor slab have been built to lock in the planning permission and have now sat like that for more than 3 years.

Thanks @ProDave If we go down the renovation route I can see some easy stages we could do to spread the cost over longer time. eg I’d want planning permission to change some flat roofs to pitched, but it’s entirely atheistic so could do without it now and do it in 3 years after we move in if that’s the case. 

[Ferdinand]

On 16/01/2022 at 16:33, LaCurandera said:

Thanks @Zak Sthat’s a great example to see

 

Sarah Beeny's "Twice the House for Half the Money" had a lot of good examples of that sort of approach.

 

There was another one as well where the gimmick was projects digital walkarounds where one proposal was radical and the other conservative that was also good - forgotten the series title.

[rh2205]

We had a vat exemption on an empty bungalow & added a 2nd floor. Did a full refurb only saved external walls & concrete slab altered every other external opening. Came in at £1250sqm inc. 5% VAT. All looked after by a builder, we did the painting & laid a couple of basic floors/tiling, builder added EWI so it doesn’t feel drafty downstairs though there is a slight temperature differential by about 1C probably from that uninsulated slab! It seems pretty efficient & our energy use has been a fraction of the amount estimated on our EPC using an ASHP. But yes it has it faults & we would have underfloor heating if we’d started from scratch but there are scenarios where it does work out better & I’m happy we saved 150k as the faults are not worth that much to me (plus unless you lived on the street most people who visit think it’s rebuilt). The rebuild rate was about £2500sqm when we did ours and is currently at £3500sqm. We had some crazy quotes so be careful with the figures the architect tells you unless you can do much yourself! Also round here it takes about 2 years of planning to have all the permissions to start a new build and quite a bit of expense with all the conditions they add, so the type of planning authority might also be a factor - this might sound like an exaggeration that I don’t have experience of but I also work in this authority so it’s not second hand info, it was a big deciding factor for us.