Complete newbie - first build

[Adamantium]

Hi all,

 

Thought I would start a thread here although as it progresses I'm not sure if it would be better placed elsewhere.

 

I'm a forum regular but usually car forums where I chronicle everything I've done in the process of making cars faster. 

 

When it comes to houses, I'm totally out of my depth and a little terrified.

 

I lived in north west london and moved out to the hertfordshire borders in feb 16. I bought a 3 bed house which is livable but in need of demolishing on what is a very large plot for the area - circa 0.7 acres.

 

We are currently living in the house which was a step down in size and quality from our old house but it had reached its full potential.

 

We are on our second architect having tried to design something based on an idea and never being quite happy with it. We took a decision to find a house we liked and copy its appearance exactly to be safe that it would end up looking right. For extra safety we contracted the architect who built that exact house who is based in NI, but seems to be in london twice a month. He's been incredible so far, and I'd recommend him to anyone. He was also cheaper than the original which was an expected surprise.

 

We are on our second planning application having passed the pre-app stage. We had to resubmit due to an objection from the environment agency because the flood level models were out of date. We are building within 8m of what is classified as a main water way, but the EA is ok as a result of a betterment of the current position.The "river" is imho a brook, but I can't ignore EA modelling and so have considered this in the design. The plot is classed as flood zone 2, but has not flooded in 40 years. The river is about 5 feet wide and ranges between 2 inches and 2 feet deep depending on rainfall, it's about 2 metres below my first floor level, so I'm not losing too much sleep over it.

 

More importantly there is a main trunk sewer running parallel to the river and limiting how far I can build. I can build over it if I really want to, but for peace of mind I'm treating it as a limit stop on the width of my footprint. I can build something easily big enough despite this and have had provisional approval from the water supplier that they are ok with the proposal and the foundations expected.

 

Now I'm waiting for planning permission. It has been called into committee as a result of a strong objection from the local parish council. Many of their objections seem to be nonsense to me but they need to rebutted, which I have sought to do. Thankfully the application has the support of the planning officer and their supervisor so I am quietly optimistic it will get consent.

 

I'm hugely concerned about the cost to build, it's 512sqm on three floors. the top being loft space accounting for 125 of those square metres. I have been operating on a rough guide of £2000/sqm but brief chats with a QS have told me, I'll be lucky. My plan is main contractor and I have experience of one who was great on my previous extension.

 

I'm not going to know for sure where I stand until I engage the QS which I won't do until after planning is granted as all can change.

 

When I read this forum and see the complexity of what's involved, the finance side of things, VAT reclaims etc, I'm beginning to get cold feet. Especially when you factor in brexit effect on exchange rate, cost of labour, and long term predicted changes to interest rates, I'm getting myself into a bit of a state.

 

One thing I have no concern on is once finished it will be worth at least what I have invested if not much more, by plan is to never sell.

 

I'm just wondering if anyone has put together a step by step guide of the major pitfalls to consider and the time lines, so that I can avoid the horror stories. Things like how and when to apply to disconnect services. I don't even know if I want to be disconnecting electricity for example as I have garden rooms with security systems that will still need power.

 

I like to think I'm technically minded, when it comes to electronics and plumbing I really like to understand everything and get completely involved but on the structural side of things I am a complete novice. Maybe that doesn't matter, but without question I'm looking for as much support as I can get from this site and based on previous experience, I am more than happy to give back much more than I take once I am in a position to help others.

 

Thanks in advance for any advice you can offer.

 

Adam

[Crofter]

Welcome aboard!

Don't get worried about being overwhelmed. Just break the project into manageable chunks, package off things that can be delegated, and take it one step at a time. And don't be afraid to ask questions along the way- you're unlikely to face a totally unique problem.

 

Probably best to start a few different threads in the relevant forum sections about the concerns you've mentioned, otherwise this thread could get a bit rambling.

 

What are your plans for accomodation between the knock down and the build?

[Nickfromwales]

Hi and welcome. 

+1 to the above, and ask away . 

 

 

 

[MikeSharp01]

Welcome. Sounds like a great project, the £2K / m² is not a bad cost to aim for and you can control it so the jumbo jet that is a self build lands roughly on the pin head of your finances by doing things like controlling spec and fit out in the loft space - you can get a lot for just over a million even right next to a water course and close to a sewer! Its great that you have built a solid relationship with your architect as this helps no end to ally fears you have. Good luck and keep posting / searching the forum for help.

[Ferdinand]

@Adamantium welcome.

 

You sound to have the skillset necessary to develop the further skills you will need as the project develops.

 

It would perhaps be worth you investing some time in skimming all the blogs and comments on this site (there are only a couple of hundred articles) as that is where the blow by blow detailed problems, solutions and wrinkles over time are explored - then reading the ones that seem relevant in depth.

 

I would also suggest looking at @JSHarris's blog which is offsite, as his angle is at the other end of your spectrum ... he learnt about the construction specific aspects of project management and did it himself ... which will give you some insights into the stuff your architect and main contractor are doing under the hood. Jeremy's comments on overthinking are superb.

 

I think it is important to invest time as well as money and make sure you keep your eye on what to you are the key aspects - the best architects in the world only know this if you have gained the knowledge and then take the time to tell them what is important to you. Time is cheaper than money to correct the things you missed by not spending the time :-).

 

The other resource I think I would recommend is the House Planning Help podcast and related blog - he now has nearly 180 45 minute (ish) episodes which are perfect tube listening covering a huge range of relevant subjects.

All that and whatever else you find should give you a hinterland to be on more equal terms with your architect and contractor as time progresses.

 

Best of luck.

 

Ferdinand

 

 

Edited April 24, 2017 by Ferdinand

[Mr Punter]

512m2 for a first time build is mighty ambitious, but with a decent main contractor and what sounds a sensible budget, you should be fine.

 

Did you consider building, say, four houses on the plot?

[Adamantium]

Really helpful advice, thanks guys.

 

The links provided are exactly the sort of thing I was hoping to find. I have zero issue in investing time and of course would rather anticipate and iavoid mistakes rather than correct them. Research is probably my favourite pastime. I made it a mission to understand planning policy backwards in order to grease the wheels, I also built a relationship with the EA and Thames water before buying the house as I didn't want to be left with something that couldn't be developed. Of course the jury is still out there, at least until the end of May when the next planning committee meeting is held.

 

I plan to move out and rent, I'm hoping it will take a year.

 

My current concerns are asbestos in the demolition, which I have no budget for yet. I am told my bricks have substantial value for reclaim purposes and hope that can help.

 

As for the £2000 thing. I was told I can consider that 1200 for the loft space since the roof etc is needed anyway. I had considered not finishing the loft off to save money as there are two bedroom and a bathroom up there.

 

Keeping costs down is a nice idea, but everything I'm looking at seems to suggest it's going the other way. I am wiring the house for all possible electrical futures with lutron throughout. Block and beam floor construction, with underfloor heating everywhere. Ground floor ceilings are 2.95m, but I'm undecided on extra tall doors to match. Windows are UPVC sash (bygone) but there are 24 of them. Roof is slate, but I'm trying to choose an alternative to welsh blue as early as possible to help the builders to quote. Then there's the two sets of concrete stairs.

 

I used estimators online which came out at £700k without contingency, based on internal floor area of 486 sqm. This didn't include lutron cabling, drainage, or structural steelwork as I had not provided enough detail. The design with chosen to be as blocky as possible to reduce the requirement for steels. Walls line up significantly up and downstairs, so with any luck the steels should be kept to a minimum.

 

Much as I'd like to break the project down, when working out the budget, I'm not sure how to look at it as anything other than all or nothing. I suppose it's not the stages that frighten me so much as once I've knocked down the existing house, there's no turning back. if I run out of money, that's it, and all the time I'm renting. I doubt it highly but there's always a chance it will bankrupt me.

 

 

[Adamantium]

1 hour ago, Mr Punter said:

512m2 for a first time build is mighty ambitious, but with a decent main contractor and what sounds a sensible budget, you should be fine.

 

Did you consider building, say, four houses on the plot?

I bought the plot for a dream house. I think contractors have looked at with that intention, but that would require a) building over the sewer b) building within 8m of a main water course.

 

I was able to just break into that 8m zone because I offered to surrender the garage which is immediately adjacent the water, hence them seeing a net gain with the footprint of the garage moving away from the water. By adding it onto the house I get to build above and doubly benefit from it.

 

Only other way would be to build two houses with a second at the bottom of the garden. We back onto fields so it would still be a lovely house, with 0.35/acre, which is nice, trouble is there are no other developments back there and it would be a crime to waste the garden (which is the reason we bought the plot - and probably overpaid).

 

I've attached images so you can see what I'm trying to preserve and the obvious space that the house needs to grown in to. 

edited to remove pics for now based on advice below.

 

 

 

Edited April 24, 2017 by Adamantium

[Redoctober]

5 minutes ago, Adamantium said:

Roof is slate, but I'm trying to choose an alternative to welsh blue as early as possible to help the builders to quote.

 

Hi - although it seems you have plenty on your plate for now, you may wish to consider these when the time comes - http://www.greysartstone.co.uk/

 

PW

[Adamantium]

Just now, Redoctober said:

 

Hi - although it seems you have plenty on your plate for now, you may wish to consider these when the time comes - http://www.greysartstone.co.uk/

 

PW

 No that's great. Slate and windows are the key things to getting the appearance right. Really appreciate that tip, will forward it to the boss!

[Adamantium]

This is the house in Northern Ireland that we fell in love with.

 

I've actually photoshopped it to remove the front dormers which won't pass planning and also hipped the roof because the side flank is exposed down almost the entire depth of the house. The road also climbs in both directions away from the house (hence the stream) and is on the apex of a slight bend meaning the side flank is very visible - the architect was the only one of seven we spoke to who recognised this and put as much effort into the appearance of the side of the house as well as the front - which will be nigh on identical.

[Ferdinand]

>I plan to move out and rent, I'm hoping it will take a year.

 

 

Hmmm. I would say be mentally prepared to take 2-3 - just in case, you understand. Of course I could be wrong, but specific expectations can be a curse.

 

Do you know where you are with Planning Gain taxes - Community Infrastructure Levy, Section 106 and so on? On 500sqm near London that could normally run to six figures or nearly six figures, and you need to know that you will get the self-build exemption from CiL and it has some elephant traps around starting development and perhaps around demolition / rebuild (others here will know).

 

Also, suggest not posting too many identifiable photos before you have planning locked down, unless everybody who might see it here and react is already fully aware of what you are doing.

 

Do you have newts? We love newts on Buildhub. Probably do not answer that :-).

 

Is this one for a fixed price contract?

 

F

 

Edited April 24, 2017 by Ferdinand

[Adamantium]

2- 3? wow, never heard of build taking that long. that could result in divorce!

 

CIL exemption already applied for, no reason for it to not be covered - it's £180/sqm in excess of the original footprint - so yes - massive implication.

 

I'm aware of the requirements to get confirmation of starting before any work is done. Basically anything that I could have tripped up on already I've researched to the nth degree.

 

Relevant photos removed - good point.

 

That said, I don't know what I don't know - eg. I don't know what newts are other than small amphibious creatures. I have some carp and a frog if that helps.

 

fixed price contract - I recall reading there was a difference between fixed price and firm price - is that relevant here?

Edited April 24, 2017 by Adamantium

[jack]

4 minutes ago, Adamantium said:

I'm aware of the requirements to get confirmation of starting before any work is done. Basically anything that I could have tripped up on already I've researched to the nth degree.

 

I truly, truly hope that's the case, but having been there, I can guarantee that there will always be unknown unknowns, no matter how much time you spend researching.  

 

I took heart from the fact that professionals who've done this every day of their lives for 20 or 30 years still overlook things or get things wrong.  It's all about how you (and they!) bounce back from the inevitable mishaps.

And welcome!

[Onoff]

10 minutes ago, Adamantium said:

2- 3? wow, never heard of build taking that long. That could result in divorce!

 

Nah! One bloke on here's taken that on one room and he still can't get shot of her! 

[Adamantium]

I can't afford divorce, it's far too expensive. On the plus side, that would be a reason to see if I could get planning to split the plot in two - would save on stamp duty!

 

Jack,

 

You are absolutely right, hence the caveat of not knowing what I don't know. Let's say that I've researched CIL extensively and seen enough horror stories to tread incredibly carefully. Funnily enough the first architect I was dealing with was the one who terrified me about the CIL, I found the exemption all by myself which was a huge relief!

 

Section 106 I have a feeling I am too small to worry about, and the planning officer - who is very informative - hasn't mentioned it yet, Bloody hope she doesn't.

 

I assume they won't ask me for an affordable housing contribution! I've looked at every other recent house build planning application in my area and haven't seen this as a concern on any of the others. It's comforting too because mine is much smaller than most of those too.

[Adamantium]

ps. does the scroll wheel on the mouse not work on this site for a reason?

[jack]

2 minutes ago, Adamantium said:

You are absolutely right, hence the caveat of not knowing what I don't know. Let's say that I've researched CIL extensively and seen enough horror stories to tread incredibly carefully.

 

You definitely have the right attitude.  I'm not for a moment suggesting you shouldn't research the hell out of things.  If nothing else, you'll be better informed when things do go awry!

[Ferdinand]

16 minutes ago, Adamantium said:

2- 3? wow, never heard of build taking that long. that could result in divorce!

 

CIL exemption already applied for, no reason for it to not be covered - it's £180/sqm in excess of the original footprint - so yes - massive implication.

 

I'm aware of the requirements to get confirmation of starting before any work is done. Basically anything that I could have tripped up on already I've researched to the nth degree.

 

Relevant photos removed - good point.

 

That said, I don't know what I don't know - eg. I don't know what newts are other than small amphibious creatures. I have some carp and a frog if that helps.

 

fixed price contract - I recall reading there was a difference between fixed price and firm price - is that relevant here?

 

I am not saying that it will take that long .. just raising a flag not to be too optimistic.

 

eg When you want to demolish it you have - I think - to serve a notice and wait 6 weeks. So you need to be running that in parallel with other things or it could delay your Critical Path. When you submit your PP it will be 12 weeks for approval as a minimum, plus any extra time they and you take, plus the time it takes you to do what you need first, then perhaps recruiting a contractor and negotiating, then wait for their slot to arrive, then build it, then ... and so on.

 

Then there may be seasonal things. If you end up having to do tree or bat things, the times can be limited by eg nesting seasons.

 

I have not heard of firm price. The important thing about Fixed Price is that the contractor takes more of the risk (eg labour rates going up) and changes are more expensive, so you need to minimise those and have a design you commit to fully up front. 

 

If you have newts in your river then the Nature People will be all over you with measures to protect them. That you have one PP already with no issues is a hopeful sign.

 

Ferdinand

 

[jack]

Just now, Adamantium said:

ps. does the scroll wheel on the mouse not work on this site for a reason?

 

Has always worked fine for me. 

[Ferdinand]

2 minutes ago, jack said:

 

Has always worked fine for me. 

 

Your mouse has a Critical Job Detector installed. 

[Adamantium]

Ferdinand,

 

thanks for the reply - again.

 

I feel better already. The sample delays you mention are things that have already affected things. I haven't actually got one pp granted yet, I have withdrawn one as I knew it would fail in committee as the planning officer had to withdraw support due the EA. Turns out my groud floor was stated as being 60cm above the 1:100 year flood level when it should have actually been stated as 52cm over the 1:100 year level including 2016 climate change modelling - no difference in the plans, just acknowledgement of the correct reference level I needed to exceed!

 

Planning has taken 5 months already, I'm hoping the knock down to move in will be 12 months.I'm prepared for more, but want to avoid it. I'm also going to try to time it so that the weather doesn't slow me down at the wrong times, which might mean starting in about 10 months. Of course there are multiple factors to bring together.

 

Now you have me worried about newts.

Edited April 24, 2017 by Adamantium

[Adamantium]

Fyi. mouse problem solved.

 

Deleted bookmark and reinstated. No idea why that worked.

[Ferdinand]

3 minutes ago, Adamantium said:

Now you have me worried about newts,

 

Don't mention them first !

[PeterW]

6 hours ago, Adamantium said:

 

 

CIL exemption already applied for, no reason for it to not be covered - it's £180/sqm in excess of the original footprint - so yes - massive implication.

 

I'm aware of the requirements to get confirmation of starting before any work is done. Basically anything that I could have tripped up on already I've researched to the nth degree.

 

 

Quick one - how have you managed to get CIL exemption without planning..? My understanding is you need the planning permission first and that creates the liability..?

 

Cheers

 

Peter