Stud walls for wall hung toilets

[James94]

I’m going to have two wall hung toilets fitted into a couple of walls I’m going to be building I’ve seen a few videos and read a little but still unsure. I’m hoping someone on here can clear a few things up. Which ones have you all bought and fitted and what was the reasoning, there seem to be so many to choose from so confused.

Thought about purchasing two and building them in as I go, is this necessary? I think only issue is by the time house is done they’ll be out of warranty, do I have to worry about that?

The timber I’m using is 4x2 rough sawn, will the waste fit in this stud space or do I have to bring studs away from block wall and if so best way of fixing to block work for structural strength.

These are the two walls they will be going against the one with the two wastes in is the down stairs the other is directly above.

 

Regards. James

 

[Dave Jones]

they have to be built in yes. Once you have the floors screeded build them into the stud. Try and use stud internal walls rather than block so you dont wast space as you will have to box them out which looks a bit gash.

[James94]

@Dave Jones

I might connect the waste from top toilet once fitted as it might be easier to get waste in before stud walls. The downstairs toilet wall will be left until FFL is complete, both toilets are going against block work so timber stud walls are being built to house the frames. So will it be best to buy the frame and build studs round it, has anyone got pics of these builds?

[saveasteading]

I have 2 at home. One of the most expensive jobs ever as I had people doing it. The plumber must have done 6 visits to do little bits before another trade was needed while he went away.

 

Mine are Roca wc  with a very heavy steel gantry behind, which for some reason are not Roca, Geberit I think.

The gantries are good and I would use them again rather than home-made.

 

Lining everything up was tricky. I think someone who knows what they are doing could do it in 10/th the time. 

But I have had it apart again because the wc was rocking (imagine that failing in use!.)

The pan is secured to the cantilever bolts by 2 plastic plug inserts (which looked the worse for wear,  and  very long grubscrews.  

It did concern me but has been ok for 2 years now, but the plumber must have fixed it loose/too tight???

 

One tiny detail...a flush that works by push lever works much better than a push button. And putting it behind the pan lid is not a great detail.

 

They are great for tidiness and cleanliness as there is no break in the floor cover or hidden space behind.

[Temp]

WC Waste pipes are typically 110mm diameter which is more than 4".

 

Are these wall hung WC going on a Geberit frame or similar? They typically provide drawings for how deep the studwork needs to be.

[Dave Jones]

there is a much cheaper alternative to the geberit frame that is pretty much identical, the make escapes me but its half the price. 

 

It doesnt have the air extraction connection though if thats what you were looking for.

[James94]

@saveasteading

Thanks for the advice.

Will be fitting this myself so need as much help as possible, seen quite a few videos now so hope this will help.

 

@Temp yeah the 90mm waste connects to the 110mm, yes probably gerberit. Not started this stud wall yet and I think we are going to buy the frame and fit it as we build wall.

 

@Dave Jones Would love to know which make you are referring to being a lot cheaper than geberit, could be interested as long as quality, reliability and ease of fitting are not compromised.

Regards. James

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Temp]

Typically frame drawings look like this.. Note how they specify the distance from the front face to the centre line of the waste. Then the other half diameter  of the waste pretty much sets the minimum depth. If you have a horizontal waste pipe it's actually it's better to allow more depth so you can have timber frame in front of the waste pipe to support the "plasterboard" (I recommend Hardibacker board for this).

 

 

Edited October 18, 2021 by Temp

[James94]

Thanks for all the great advice, I’ve seen the diagrams with the dimensions and they look a bit confusing, surly could make them simpler. Anyway just to let you all know I’ve ordered two of the Geberit UP320’s least se how we get on fitting them when they arrive.

 Regards. James

[Onoff]

On 18/10/2021 at 07:06, Dave Jones said:

there is a much cheaper alternative to the geberit frame that is pretty much identical, the make escapes me but its half the price. 

 

The name your looking for is Abacus and the general consensus here I believe is that it's w**k! ?

 

I believe they pretty much copied Geberit, might even have been some legal proceedings instigated. 

[Temp]

2 hours ago, James94 said:

Thanks for all the great advice, I’ve seen the diagrams with the dimensions and they look a bit confusing, surly could make them simpler. 

 

The only issue I have is with the way they write dimensions eg 13⁵ to mean 135mm. 

 

I think more info would help, particularly if you have a horizontal waste pipe rather than vertical as it complicates the boxing somewhat.

[Onoff]

2 hours ago, James94 said:

Thanks for all the great advice, I’ve seen the diagrams with the dimensions and they look a bit confusing, surly could make them simpler. Anyway just to let you all know I’ve ordered two of the Geberit UP320’s least se how we get on fitting them when they arrive.

 Regards. James

 

I found the Geberit instructions confusing to start with, what with their mixing mm and cm. Once you crack the code so to speak and it's crystal clear. I've fitted a Geberit wall frame and wall drain now and tbh love the stuff.

 

I found the videos really helped. Just YouTube "Geberit UP320".

 

 

 

 

 

 

[vala]

@James94

I've got a UP320 frame supposedly arriving tomorrow. Had to knock up a false wall so I'm fitting all connections behind this. Like you I've got a horizontal pipe which will go through the wall to the stack.

I've fitted one in my old place and tbh once you have it to hand it's pretty straight forward.

Got the auto air extraction arriving as well. Unsure if this is allowed for in the frame but looks like the connections are housed in a small box which fits in the toilet void before you attach it to the frame.

[Pocster]

+1 for geberit. Even I did it !

[James94]

13 hours ago, vala said:

@James94

I've got a UP320 frame supposedly arriving tomorrow. Had to knock up a false wall so I'm fitting all connections behind this. Like you I've got a horizontal pipe which will go through the wall to the stack.

I've fitted one in my old place and tbh once you have it to hand it's pretty straight forward.

Got the auto air extraction arriving as well. Unsure if this is allowed for in the frame but looks like the connections are housed in a small box which fits in the toilet void before you attach it to the frame.

Have you got any pics and would like to know how you got on with it, any issues or tips you may have would be much appreciated. Was looking at the air extraction but couldn’t afford the extra expense.

Regards. James

[vala]

@James94

Currently I'm at this stage.
The upright the piece of ply is resting against is the right hand side (when looking at it) of the toilet frame. Frame arrives later today so tomorrow I'll hopefully fit it and will take another pic.

the pipe that's curling up to the left of that ply is the water feed to it.

I've got 200mm from the block wall to the front of the timber so that should comfortably allow the waste pipe to go right and then exit out of the wall in between the 2 windows. Stack is going there on the outside.

Will see when the frame arrives later today what side the electrical connection comes in from and fit some conduit on the wall to run that down.

I'll get another pic done once it's fitted.

Edited October 27, 2021 by vala

[ToughButterCup]

On 17/10/2021 at 14:12, James94 said:

...

. Which ones have you all bought and fitted and what was the reasoning,

 ...

Thought about purchasing two and building them in as I go, is this necessary?

 

I think only issue is by the time house is done they’ll be out of warranty, do I have to worry about that?

The timber I’m using is 4x2 rough sawn,

...

 

Geberit because I'm half Kraut. And I have limited imagination. 

We bought two for exactly the same reason. Worry about warranty ? For Geberit? Really? I mean really?

Left over 4 by 2 and some sheet OSB is what I used

 

On 26/10/2021 at 00:43, Temp said:

...

The only issue I have is with the way they write dimensions eg 13⁵ to mean 135mm. 

...

 

Meine Guete, solche Klienichkeiten sind schwierig ? Darf wohl nich' Wahr sein. Mann kann es auch 13,5 schreiben.  @Temp Sie haeten Deutsch an der Schule lernen sollen! ?

 

One thing to think about, @James94, knee height.

As is the way on a self build, you make progress while you can. So there was a googdly gap between fitting the first one and  the next. SWMBO asked for the second one to be set 10mm lower than the first. It's not that she's a tiddler, I'm just under 2m tall.

 

When I start to sit down on 'hers', I feel for just half a second or so, like I'm about to fall over. 10mm makes a huge difference in comfort in seat height. Her knees are about 10mm lower than mine.

 

Edited October 27, 2021 by ToughButterCup

[TonyT]

You might want to insulate and clip the pipework a bit before putting the plywood on!

[vala]

1 hour ago, TonyT said:

You might want to insulate and clip the pipework a bit before putting the plywood on!

@TonyT

if that was referring to my post then yes I've got plenty of insulation and clips to go on. But tbh, that's a good few weeks away because new windows need to be fitted prior to that wall being boarded in Marmox stuff.

And that plywood is just an offcut I used to marking out from finished floor. It was just by chance it was in that pic.

Edited October 27, 2021 by vala

[Pocster]

2 hours ago, ToughButterCup said:

When I start to sit down on 'hers',

I visualised all the wrong things there 

[vala]

@James94

 

so there’s the screws in through the feet, and then I used to hex washer heads which screw through the frame into the timber. These are located just beneath cistern. There’s also a location for another 2 screws right at the top of the frame on either side however these are difficult to get to from the inside, but it’s rock solid as it is.

Water inlet and waste are pretty self explanatory.

You’ll breeze through installing it.

[Onoff]

2 hours ago, vala said:

@James94

 

so there’s the screws in through the feet, and then I used to hex washer heads which screw through the frame into the timber. These are located just beneath cistern. There’s also a location for another 2 screws right at the top of the frame on either side however these are difficult to get to from the inside, but it’s rock solid as it is.

Water inlet and waste are pretty self explanatory.

You’ll breeze through installing it.

 

I used coach screws for the side fixings, into the stud work. The sort you do up with a ratchet and socket. I had to unclip the cistern and lean it back to get to those.

 

 

 

Mine fixed to what was a blocked up doorway so was quite deep, I made up extensions for the top. Resin anchored the studs in:

 

 

Bottom into concrete:

 

 

I lined the recess with sound absorption panels:

 

 

 

I glued 9mm ply to the front of my frame as I had to bring the wall out by that much:

 

 

 

Test fit the Aqua Panel to go over the front:

 

 

 

A bit of Sikaflex over the ply:

 

 

 

Edited October 29, 2021 by Onoff

[Andehh]

Looking really good - thanks for the pics!

[James94]

At work today so not had much time to digest info in posts, but pics look good and some good step by step info. Hopefully mine are coming today so probably look at them tomorrow.

 Regards. James

[Onoff]

Pan height, really important to work it out and get it right when you put your frame in and adjust the height. Some discussions here on page 20 of my mega thread. You need to refer to the dimensions of the pan you're fitting etc. I went with 445mm from finished floor to top of closed seat (not lid) i.e. the bit your ar5e hits: