Last minute layout change

[Crofter]

Having spent some time in the shell of the new house, .I've grown rather fond of the space and have become reluctant to start splitting it up with partitions as per my original design. Fortunately everything I have done so far is compatible with a more open plan layout. It's a fairly big change but actually means less building work. It takes the house further away from being somewhere that I would call a home, and makes it more of a holiday house- I am trading storage space for bigger rooms, and losing the practicality of having an entrance vestibule.

 

I've attached a sketch of the revised layout that I'm proposing- any feedback very gratefully received.

[ProDave]

Looks nice, simple and efficient use of space. Probably the only thing I would do different is split the cupboard so there's a "coat and shoe" cupboard next to the entrance door, and a small wardrobe from the bedroom.

[Crofter]

14 minutes ago, ProDave said:

Looks nice, simple and efficient use of space. Probably the only thing I would do different is split the cupboard so there's a "coat and shoe" cupboard next to the entrance door, and a small wardrobe from the bedroom.

 

Yes that's quite a neat idea.

Only thing is I'm planning on having the washing machine housed in that cupboard, so making it smaller might make space a bit tight for that.

[Ferdinand]

Coats would hang above a washer, if necessary split but a shelf halfway with the door on the other side. Or the washer only needs half of it at 1100x1600.

 

A shoe rack would fit in an open unit in the end of the run of kitchen units by the door ... or just open shelves across the end 400 deep.

Edited March 26, 2017 by Ferdinand

[Guest Alphonsox]

I know the feeling, space is addictive and that looks like a good solution - We lost a few walls between design and implementation - A decision we haven't regretted. 

[MikeSharp01]

Yes perhaps get the washing machine by the front door at the bottom of the cupboard but in a little way, fix the boot rack to the door, uprate the hinges to take the load, just make sure the door doesn't clash with the front door and hang coats above to give small wardrobe as @ProDave says, in the bedroom. Also maybe the bathroom is quite generous you could probably get away with 500mm less length and perhaps move the whole central wall back that much, makes the bedroom that bit smaller, but the main space is 2m² bigger

[AliG]

When I am at work in London I live in a similar sized apartment.

 

It only has one wardrobe/cupboard in the bedroom.

 

If I could change anything about it, it would be to have two cupboards.

 

It depends on how many clothes you plan to have there and if you have a vacuums, ironing boards etc, but I would want a wardrobe plus another cupboard.

[Crofter]

OK here's a version with the cupboard split, creating a shallow wardrobe from the bedroom.

The wardrobe is 450 deep, and 1100 wide; the cupboard is now 1050x1100.

 

Because of the need to put a washing machine in there, the narrower cupboard will be a bit hard to utilise fully- it's quite deep for its size, and there's only so much stuff you can put in front of the washing machine. But then again I don't need oodles of space (I keep forgetting this!). Somewhere for the fuse box, some spare linen, a shelf of cleaning products, and the hoover. The depth of the cupboard will also give ample space for things hung on the back of the door.

 

I could move the main partition back a little, but that starts to make the wardrobe look a bit tight... I think? Again, not a huge amount of space is needed here, as when people are on holiday I think they tend to live out of their suitcases rather than fill a wardrobe with clothes. Or maybe that's just me.

 

@MikeSharp01 Interesting that you think I could shrink the bathroom a bit. I sized it based on my interpretation of the building regs for activity areas around a WC and basin, and added a more generous 900 wide shower. I have the luxury of ignoring the regs if I want (portable building exemption) but I have used them as guidance for planning the layout.

[AliG]

I'd probably keep the original cupboard and add a small wardrobe in the corner of the bedroom between the window and door. A 450mm deep wardrobe will be almost impossible to use.

 

Of course you could always just buy a wardrobe if you find you need the space once you are in and put it in that corner.

 

The most effective way to put the washing machine in the cupboard is at the front and accessing it from the living room so that you can use the space behind it. You'd need to maybe build a box around it. I am struggling a bit, I can see it is nice to have away in the cupboard but if you put it right inside the cupboard the need to be able to work in front of it is going to waste a lot of room so I think you want it to be at the front of the cupboard.

 

Edited -

 

Actually how about this.

 

If you don't mind the access to the WM being in the bedroom, make the wardrobe 650mm deep and put the washing machine in there. Then you have full length hanging at one side and half height above the WM. You also won't be doing laundry in the corner next to the front door.

 

Then you have a smaller cupboard behind it unencumbered by the WM.

Edited March 26, 2017 by AliG

[bassanclan]

What are your thoughts on adding a porch externally to give you the entrance vestibule back and storage for coats etc?

[MikeSharp01]

3 hours ago, Crofter said:

 

@MikeSharp01 Interesting that you think I could shrink the bathroom a bit. I sized it based on my interpretation of the building regs for activity areas around a WC and basin, and added a more generous 900 wide shower. I have the luxury of ignoring the regs if I want (portable building exemption) but I have used them as guidance for planning the layout

Yes access regs are important but there are a couple of things you can do. Perhaps use a widish pocket door and swap the glass screen for a shower curtain that can be drawn back to increase access to the WC. Assuming the room is bascaly a wet room. 

[Stones]

@Crofter - a few observations and thoughts. The most important thing you have to think about is will the proposed changes make this a better working  a holiday let for clients and for you maintenance and cleaning wise.

 

Vestibule - whilst I appreciate you like the feel of the big space as is, getting rid of the vestibule would i think be a mistake. Blowing a gale, your visitors coming in from the cold and wet have a weather front following them directly into the main room. Where do visitors hang their wet coats and place their muddy boots. At least with a vestibule you provide that space and give some protection to the main room. Easier to clean and repaint a small vestibule vs a whole room.  

 

W/M cupboard. Make this 650 deep only to accommodate the W/M, use storage space beside machine for vacuum, brush, mop etc and provide coat hanging space / shelves above. Use leftover depth to create built in storage in bathroom for towels etc. Other options for the leftover space - use as part of a vestibule or shift the main dividing partition back, making the main room even more generous.

 

Bathroom - consider what is going to be easiest to keep clean in terms of the shower enclosure. Whilst a generous size is important that could be achieved with a 1200 x 900 tray, then use the remaining width of the room for built in bathroom storage or built in storage in the bedroom or combination thereof.

[Crofter]

45 minutes ago, bassanclan said:

What are your thoughts on adding a porch externally to give you the entrance vestibule back and storage for coats etc?

 

It's worth considering, but would not be straightforward. I have a width restriction on the building (another 600mm takes me beyond portable building limit), although a flimsy enough structure would probably be OK- roof overhangs, guttering etc are not counted in the width. So a simple roof, like a car port, might be allowable.

Possibly more problematic is that the ground around the house is very uneven and sloping, so making a reasonable sized flat space at the back door is going to be tricky.

[Ferdinand]

@CrofterI am not sure I was clear.

 

My suggestion was to put the shoe rack on the other side of the outside door as a set of shelves under the end of the worktop (if that is what it is). 

 

Our student bathrooms have a 760mm x 1400 mm shower in, and I do no think the 760mm has been a problem. However, the extra may help disabled access for "holiday home" mode.

 

My other last comment is that if the division of the wardrobe is awkward and deep, you could use a tall set of freestanding shelves, or even trolley-shelves on wheels. Like this one designed for shopfiting (1.875m high, 1.2m x 450mm plan) but chosen to fit your cupboard size. They could go in a slot end-on and roll out to get to the stuff at the back. Your shoe rack could be similar.

 

 

I think your 1.6x1.1m space will work .. it is just how to do the jigsaw.

 

I suppose one other point is that if it is a holiday let, you perhaps want somewhere lockable that is off limits to guests to keep your own stuff and whisky. For me that would be important.

 

Ferdinand

Edited March 27, 2017 by Ferdinand

[Crofter]

Thanks @Ferdinand, a pull out unit could help.

It's funny how much thought can go into a cupboard! I've yet to sketch out the option of accessing the WM from the bathroom, which would mean dividing it three ways.

 

Any comments on the bedroom-lounge divide? I've notionally put 1200 wide double doors on the centreline. This gives enough space either side for an 800 wide piece of furniture, e.g. chest of drawers plus a freestanding wardrobe. Aesthetically, it very much makes a feature of the woodburning stove and its flue which would be framed in these doors as viewed from the bed. Extra incentive to the flue bang on vertical

 

Edit to add: I shouldn't need a whisky stash as I have one in my own house less than fifty metres away. Hopefully I can survive long enough without a dram to walk that far!

Edited March 27, 2017 by Crofter
Forgot about whiskey stash

[AliG]

I saw what you had done there with the doors otherwise I would have suggested moving the door to the side of the bedroom where the en suite is and building a wardrobe along the wall between the lounge and bedroom.

 

Now you have brought it up, two things -

 

1. Will people actually want to be in bed with the door open and the fire on all the way along at the other end. As it's a log burner they'll have to get up to put wood in it.

 

2. Do you plan to put a table in the lounge? I would think the natural layout includes a sofa that separates the kitchen area from the room. If you want to put a table in there the natural place is in the corner between the lounge window and the bedroom wall. The table will end up across the door.

 

All in all, it is a nice feature but that door takes up a lot of wall space which is already in short supply in the living room. But I don't know your planned furniture layout so maybe just consider that as part of this planning.

[Crofter]

Furniture layout is up for debate, for sure. And as pointed out, it's hard not to end up blocking the door or the sightline from the bed to the stove.

 

My thinking at the moment is to have the sofa facing the big patio door, but far enough back from it to give a line of sight from bed to stove. The small two seater table would go on the wall between the stove the kitchen units (this was always the plan in the original layout). The remaining space could house an armchair by the patio door, and some sort of furniture in the corner (dresser, bookcase, or whatever- basically somewhere to put some secondhand paperbacks, board games, and a vase of flowers).

 

I think people like looking at a stove, even if it's not on. But picture the scene. Throw some last logs on it, drain your glass of red, retire to bed and watch the flames dance as you drift off to the sound of the curlews on the shore outside, as the last glimmer of daylight turns deeper red and then imperceptibly fades to black. (Anyone want a holiday on Skye??)

 

The more conventional solution would be to have a normal sized door offset towards one corner of the bedroom, and that then gives the greatest flexibility for furniture. But, meh, something's missing from that version. IMHO.

[AliG]

I guess it is only 1 bedroom so the table is going to be smaller than I was thinking.

 

Like you say important to keep the sightline, it will be a nice effect.

 

In a similar vein you could make the shower room smaller, but there is something nice about having a bit of space in a bathroom.

 

If everything is up for grabs, I assume that the feeling is you want to take the WM out of the lounge and not use one integrated into the kitchen cabinets which will take up less room. Unless you move the WM into the bedroom you are going to end up doing the laundry in the lounge anyway as there won't be room to be fully in the cupboard. That is why I thought putting it in the bedroom side of the cupboard would help, the washing will be in there anyway and it will keep the sound away from the living room which is maybe the reason for putting it in the cupboard. You don't need to split the cupboard into three, simply have a double door wardrobe with the WM in the bottom corner. You'd maybe put a cabinet around the top and sides for neatness.

 

 

[ProDave]

Can I give an off the cuff suggestion?

 

Delete the Washing machine.  How many people go on holiday and expect to do the washing? My SWMBO certainly does not.

 

Instead, offer a laundry service for a nominal charge, so you (or your SWMBO) does their washing for a small fee.

[Mikey_1980]

You could get a mini washing maching like the below if it is only going to be used for small loads or infrequently.  Could easily be stored away in cupboard or Wardrobe.

 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/PORTABLE-WASHING-MACHINE-CARAVAN-MOTORHOMES/dp/B01CR7EQTO/ref=pd_lpo_265_tr_t_3?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=BQMGXPV6495F7GRGKDKE

Edited March 27, 2017 by Mikey_1980

[Ferdinand]

@Crofter Responding to various but not clipping all the comments - busy day.

 

You may still want a lockable mini-store or cupboard for eg cleaning materials or spare crocks and glasses etc.

 

On suitcases, that means you need space for them to be stood on something for the stay where they can be opened easily. 

 

The other type of unit which I think may help would be the slide out larder type from kitchens.

Are you planning a dryer? I am guessing that in the location normally a line is ideal, but there are some occasions when all the wind does is blow the rain in horizontally through the fog. Personally I would not delete the washer - for some people (eg with a small child or baby staying for a week) that may be a show stopper. I have family who simply put the washer on a trolley similar to one of these with a flexihose and have the dryer stacked on top - easier for access and could just exist with the wheels locked in a 2m high 600x650 cupboard:

 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Washing-Machine-Universal-Appliance-Trolley/dp/B01LZDCNPK?th=1

 

I think if you have time to reflect on furnishings I would say visit a few hotel rooms and see how they do wardrobes and bathrooms - both because of design ideas, but also because these days facilities are much improved. Now real coffee machines are standard in mid range hotels.

 

A nice permanent offer is Use the Accor Hotels Happy Mondays offer and you can eg bag weekend overnights close to the Royal Mile for £25 or a little more per double room in nice hotels eg Mercure booking on the preceding 2 mondays or Tuesdays. You need to join the Club but it is worth it.

 

If i recall the space you have a mezzanine over the bed and shower room?

 

One thought on open plan. You could not include a wall between the shower and bedroom, and instead go for low 1-1.2m wall or storage divider (does that help with the wardrobe?), or even a variation on the feature as included on the recent House that 100k Built (Series 2 Episode 5 I think - excellent house):

 

 

If they are couples (which they are unless you have having push apart beds) maybe then only really need toilet/shower bottom half modesty rather than a cubicle.

 

That one, while it looks chunky, is studwork with a skin of painted mdf over to curve. The round terminus is a seat to perch on, and has a hinged lid to be a laundry basket. Something like that between the bed and shower but less expansive could give a good suitcase rack cum built-in seat on the end with storage under. It would just need a little care integrating with your shower screen.

 

On the doors, I agree they take up space. 1200 sounds good for a double :-). I *hate* double doors where they are so narrow that any normal sized person has to turn sideways or open both even if only carrying a small box; people who install those should be fed to rabid dogs for elevenses. They had a pair on Homes Under the Hammer this morning.

 

Admit I would be tempted to move those (the issue is wallspace?) - but perhaps not until it was proved necessary; the stove view is good if you can do it.

 

Ferdinand

 

Edited March 27, 2017 by Ferdinand

[Crofter]

Yes I've given some thought to whether the washing machine is really needed. I think in practise it will be used by us more than by guests. It might not be essential but is a useful thing to have if you have the space, and I do think that I can afford to give 20% of my storage footprint over to it. And I can supplement the storage with freestanding furniture.

 

Accessing the washing machine from the bathroom would alleviate the noise problem. So yet another layout would see the big cupboard split into two, accessed from kitchen and bathroom, and the bathroom side becomes the airing cupboard, with the UVC sitting beside the washing machine, and shelving above. This would leave the bedroom needing a freestanding wardrobe but I think that's acceptable. The baseline plan puts the UVC up in the (warm) loft.

 

Unfortunately I have already purchased the kitchen, and it's sitting in a Wickes warehouse. I didn't buy an end panel either, because originally it was going to but up against walls at either end. Pondering making a small end wall that creates an upstand, essentially to stop things from falling off the end of the worktop, or being brushed off by people coming in the door. And it saves me buying an end panel and putting an end strip on the worktop.

[Ferdinand]

End panel from left over cladding?

[AliG]

Re case storage, recently when I have been on cruise they have raised the beds so that you can shove cases under them. Makes a massive difference as they can take up a lot of room and you can just unfold a big case, leave stuff in it and push it under the bed.

[MikeSharp01]

People might argue that the washing machine is dependant on the nature of the guests. If it's going to be used by walkers / fell runners / hardy out door coves in general then it's probably more important than if the typical guest is a worn out electrical professional and his / her partner who just want to relax buy the fire and perhaps catch up on the latest shade of grey novel - no disrespect to any fellow buildhubers. 

Edited March 27, 2017 by MikeSharp01
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