I’ve discovered a void..

[CotswoldDoItUpper]

Well, I knew it was there, but hadn’t really considered its potential

use. 
 

Its currently uninsulsted and about 1700mm wide, 700mm tall (to underside of joists) and about 1600 long. It’s directly below where the UFH manifold will be going.
 

Is there any way I can use this space for buffer tank / expansion vessels / HW cylinder? 
 

there will be/could also be access from the side (the right hand side in the pic which is just stud/plasterboard) there will be no access from the top once the floor is down.

 

pic below because I know you all love a good pic!! 

[tonyshouse]

You can get lying down cylinders, and presumably buffer tanks too, easy for an expansion vessel 

[CotswoldDoItUpper]

22 minutes ago, tonyshouse said:

You can get lying down cylinders, and presumably buffer tanks too, easy for an expansion vessel 

Would something like this square one be ok? 
also, it would be below the manifold level. Would this be ok?

 

https://www.advanceappliances.co.uk/product/141-buffer-stores/?gclid=EAIaIQobChMI0P3b7tzb8gIVS-rtCh3dew0PEAMYAyAAEgIxOvD_BwE

 

 

 

Edited August 31, 2021 by CotswoldDoItUpper

[ProDave]

Almost every house has a void like that.  It will be below DPC, cold and damp.  Anything you put there in the way of tanks etc will need GOOD access.  Are you really that tight for space?

 

Best thing you can do is crawl in there, insulate the space under the floor then seal it up and forget about it.

[CotswoldDoItUpper]

6 minutes ago, ProDave said:

Almost every house has a void like that.  It will be below DPC, cold and damp.  Anything you put there in the way of tanks etc will need GOOD access.  Are you really that tight for space?

 

Best thing you can do is crawl in there, insulate the space under the floor then seal it up and forget about it.

 

We don’t have a DPC (yet, tho there is plastic sheeting in there!), and this is below external ground level anyway by about 2m. Not tanked when it was built AFAIK.
 

the access would be the whole side (700/1600) with doors. Hidden behind a sideboard.
 

I’m trying to placate SWMBO who doesn’t want a tank in her 2m long hall cupboard. Putting the UFH manifold in there was a battle! Think the other option is the loft…. On the other side of the house…. ?

Edited August 31, 2021 by CotswoldDoItUpper

[Ferdinand]

2 hours ago, CotswoldDoItUpper said:

 

We don’t have a DPC (yet, tho there is plastic sheeting in there!), and this is below external ground level anyway by about 2m. Not tanked when it was built AFAIK.
 

the access would be the whole side (700/1600) with doors. Hidden behind a sideboard.
 

I’m trying to placate SWMBO who doesn’t want a tank in her 2m long hall cupboard. Putting the UFH manifold in there was a battle! Think the other option is the loft…. On the other side of the house…. ?

 

Why did you not offer her a 1m long hall cupboard?

 

:???

 

?

[CotswoldDoItUpper]

27 minutes ago, Ferdinand said:

 

Why did you not offer her a 1m long hall cupboard?

 

:???

 

?

Because the space already exists. And it’s a slow burn. It took a good couple of months to explain that we should take the floor up and insulate it. Then another month or so to get to laying pipes for UFH. Now we’ve got the pipes in we need to find space for the gubbins that goes with it….

 

I haven’t started on finding space for the HW cylinder for the ASHP yet…. Doesn’t help that SWMBO is the major bread winner by a factor of 8 so she is effectively paying for it all. 
 

I think I should be* a diplomat.
 

*need to be more of

[TonyT]

Pop up mini wine cellar

[Ferdinand]

Reading the above it seems to be an above ground level void (sloping site), so it looks useful as either an insulated space, or uninsulated space (ie insulate the door) depending on your needs.

[CotswoldDoItUpper]

18 minutes ago, TonyT said:

Pop up mini wine cellar

Yes! Tho wine doesn’t seem to stick around in our house long enough to need a place to store it…. 
 

16 minutes ago, Ferdinand said:

Reading the above it seems to be an above ground level void (sloping site), so it looks useful as either an insulated space, or uninsulated space (ie insulate the door) depending on your needs.

exactly! Sloping site it certainly is.

 

how should I go about insulating it? Fix PIR to straight to wall and floor or batten out first? If so, what size batten? Does it need an air gap? No air bricks or anything that I can see. Joists 30+ years old and seem in perfectly good condition.

[Pocster]

Bodies . You always need space to store bodies …

[Happy Valley]

4 hours ago, pocster said:

Bodies . You always need space to store bodies …

 

I presume that you are Austrian......with a cellar? ?

[Ferdinand]

1 hour ago, Happy Valley said:

 

I presume that you are Austrian......with a cellar? ?

 

I wouldn't enquire so closely.

 

There is still space... 

[CotswoldDoItUpper]

7 hours ago, pocster said:

Bodies . You always need space to store bodies …

The void was about 1.5m deep until the in-laws came to stay.

 

welcome to the hotel California….

[Ferdinand]

You could get one of those Plasticised Flayed Corpses from Dr Gunther von Hagens, and install it behind @pocster's walk on glazing.

 

Then you can have a hallway like a scare-ride at a funfair, with a light and a siren, and a "bwahahahah" speaker.

Absolutely essential if you have children under 10. 

 

Squeamishness warning: https://www.standard.co.uk/reveller/attractions/body-worlds-london-piccadilly-circus-a3952486.html

[Pocster]

6 minutes ago, Ferdinand said:

You could get one of those Plasticised Flayed Corpses from Dr Gunther von Hagens, and install it behind @pocster's walk on glazing.

 

Then you can have a hallway like a scare-ride at a funfair, with a light and a siren, and a "bwahahahah" speaker.

Absolutely essential if you have children under 10. 

An excellent suggestion!!

[CotswoldDoItUpper]

Whilst these are all good suggestions, and ones I will certainly use, I would like to make sure my flayed corpse doesn’t freeze to death.

 

how should I go about insulating the space for it?

[Ferdinand]

4 hours ago, CotswoldDoItUpper said:

Whilst these are all good suggestions, and ones I will certainly use, I would like to make sure my flayed corpse doesn’t freeze to death.

 

how should I go about insulating the space for it?

 

Point of Order: how does a flayed *corpse* freeze to death?

 

 

[CotswoldDoItUpper]

1 minute ago, Ferdinand said:

 

Point of Order: how does a flayed *corpse* freeze to death?

 

 

Slowly! ?

 

insulation?

[Iceverge]

If it's underneath groundfloor joists I assume it's ventilated. Insulation is pointless if you need to keep an airflow going to stop your joists rotting out. Even insulating between the joists you need to be careful not to block any airpaths through here.

 

I'd put an inspection hatch in the plasterboard or the floor above. Insulate the floor and forget about it like @ProDave says. 

 

Potentially you could just use it to store things you wouldn't mind being a bit damp, spare tiles, pots of paint, wedding presents, small children........

 

 

 

 

[Ferdinand]

We're avoiding it because it could be a detailed question, but let's chat.

 

It depends on the conditions and what you want to do with it.

 

Do you know what the temperature is in there? Is it like a space under the ground which will have a constant temp give or take (once you are a couple of feet down it will be 5C or so most of the time), or does it fluctuate? What about humidity? is it ventilated to the outside either properly eg air brick or via air leaks? Does it get moisture going through?

 

(Ideally: run a min/max thermometer/humidistat in there for a bit. Useful things - I have about 3 of these at £10. https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B017KNQNZA)

 

At present is it adjacent to the outside in any dimension, or is it buried underneath the middle of the house?

 

If you want it eg to put tools in, dryness is important, whilst if you want it for eg wine or jam or plastic things or your drain-rodding kit or bulk household storage, it may be a bit more tolerant.

 

Is it a room above that floor, and do you need to insulate that?

 

Once you have decided what you want it for, then if you need to insulate you either leave it at current temp and insulate the door * and sides adjoining the house, or install an insulated box inside the cupboard and do usual airtiightness things if you want it inside the insulation envelope of the house.

 

If you just want to stand things on the bottom, or install a freestanding shelf-frame in there, then you may be able to get away without a frame and just either glue sheets of insulation together (I did an insulated box for our cat like that), or perhaps glue them to the sides. Imagine using eg large offcuts, or 75mm or 100mm sheets.

 

If you need a frame, then you could potentially glue your battens to the sides and affix to those, and screw to the joists above.

 

Were I doing it, I would want to know it was dry, and I would do it in a dismountable way which lets me get behind the cupboard without destroying it.

 

I hope that is a few points.

 

Spare materials for the house is a good call.

 

Ferdinand

 

* One neat way to do that is with magnetic catches and a panel with two handles that is 'magneted' to the wall.

[Ferdinand]

You are scoring about 92% in your patience test.

[Bitpipe]

On 01/09/2021 at 10:03, pocster said:

Bodies . You always need space to store bodies …

 

To be specific, teenagers. I built a whole basement for that purpose.

[CotswoldDoItUpper]

21 hours ago, Ferdinand said:

You are scoring about 92% in your patience test.

With 2 little ones you haven’t even got close!!

21 hours ago, Ferdinand said:

We're avoiding it because it could be a detailed question, but let's chat.

 

It depends on the conditions and what you want to do with it.

 

Do you know what the temperature is in there? Is it like a space under the ground which will have a constant temp give or take (once you are a couple of feet down it will be 5C or so most of the time), or does it fluctuate? What about humidity? is it ventilated to the outside either properly eg air brick or via air leaks? Does it get moisture going through?

 

(Ideally: run a min/max thermometer/humidistat in there for a bit. Useful things - I have about 3 of these at £10. https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B017KNQNZA)

 

At present is it adjacent to the outside in any dimension, or is it buried underneath the middle of the house?

 

If you want it eg to put tools in, dryness is important, whilst if you want it for eg wine or jam or plastic things or your drain-rodding kit or bulk household storage, it may be a bit more tolerant.

 

Is it a room above that floor, and do you need to insulate that?

 

Once you have decided what you want it for, then if you need to insulate you either leave it at current temp and insulate the door * and sides adjoining the house, or install an insulated box inside the cupboard and do usual airtiightness things if you want it inside the insulation envelope of the house.

 

If you just want to stand things on the bottom, or install a freestanding shelf-frame in there, then you may be able to get away without a frame and just either glue sheets of insulation together (I did an insulated box for our cat like that), or perhaps glue them to the sides. Imagine using eg large offcuts, or 75mm or 100mm sheets.

 

If you need a frame, then you could potentially glue your battens to the sides and affix to those, and screw to the joists above.

 

Were I doing it, I would want to know it was dry, and I would do it in a dismountable way which lets me get behind the cupboard without destroying it.

 

I hope that is a few points.

 

Spare materials for the house is a good call.

 

Ferdinand

 

* One neat way to do that is with magnetic catches and a panel with two handles that is 'magneted' to the wall.

 

- use for buffer tank and expansion vessel for ASHP and UFH. don’t think I can fit the hot water cylinder in.

 

- room above is single story solid stone wall (no cavity) pitched roof with UFH. Will be insulating between joists anyway and then leaving UFH over.

 

- nearest air brick is about 8m away, the only way to get more ventilation is to dig a pipe or something down from the outside. It’s about 1.5m below external ground level.

 

Think a bit of insulation to reduce losses from plumbing would be good. Can I just lay them on the slab (currently concrete covered with a plastic sheet) and then glue/tape them together? Should they be raised off the slab for any reason?

 

thanks for the guidance, much appreciated, particularly on the magnetic cupboard door idea!