Marvin Posted August 7, 2021 Share Posted August 7, 2021 Iron-air batteries seem to be a future possibility. After a decade of research, types of Iron-air batteries are starting to come to the market. However not for the likes of me yet - more super scale, but if successful I hope it will trickle down to single property systems being charged by PV. My PV system would produce almost all the electricity I would need in a year... if I could store it all... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeSharp01 Posted August 7, 2021 Share Posted August 7, 2021 Early days - but promising results. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteamyTea Posted August 8, 2021 Share Posted August 8, 2021 A quick look at Wikipedia: Metal–air battery Theoretical specific energy, Wh/kg (including oxygen) Theoretical specific energy, Wh/kg (excluding oxygen) Calculated open-circuit voltage, V Aluminium–air 4300[5] 8140[6] 1.2 Germanium–air 1480 7850 1 Calcium–air 2990 4180 3.12 Iron–air 1431 2044 1.3 Lithium–air 5210 11140 2.91 Magnesium–air 2789 6462 2.93 Potassium–air 935[7][8] 1700[Note 1] 2.48[7][8] Sodium–air 1677 2260 2.3[9][10] Silicon–air 4217 9036 1.6[11] Tin–air at 1000 K[12] 860 6250 0.95 Zinc–air 1090 1350 1.65 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeSharp01 Posted August 8, 2021 Share Posted August 8, 2021 54 minutes ago, SteamyTea said: A quick look at Wikipedia: Yes but speaks not of the full cost, iron is more plentiful than lithium, in 2019 we only harvested 97000T of lithium (BGS 2021) while in pig iron alone we managed 1.3 billion T. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A_L Posted August 8, 2021 Share Posted August 8, 2021 To me the volumetric energy density is the most potentially impressive aspect, 1000kWh in about 100litres - Quote When it comes to volumetric energy density, iron-air batteries perform even better: at 9,700 Wh/l, it is almost five times as high as that of today's lithium-ion batteries (2,000 Wh/l). Even lithium-air batteries have "only" 6,000 Wh/l. https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2017/11/171116105004.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteamyTea Posted August 8, 2021 Share Posted August 8, 2021 If you are interested in energy storage, you can sign up to this. https://www.energy-storage.news/ Not had any spam from them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteamyTea Posted August 8, 2021 Share Posted August 8, 2021 40 minutes ago, MikeSharp01 said: Yes but speaks not of the full cost, iron is more plentiful than lithium, in 2019 we only harvested 97000T of lithium (BGS 2021) while in pig iron alone we managed 1.3 billion T. Yes, they claim it will be a tenth of the price. The real problem is we don't have the right physics at the atomic level. Who decided it was a good idea to have electron shells, what we want is odd numbers of electrons loosely bound to the nucleus, and stop that trick of everything wanting to go to the lowest energy state, less entropy is needed (or is it more, I never know). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProDave Posted August 8, 2021 Share Posted August 8, 2021 For home (or grid scale) energy storage mass and size of the batteries is not really an issue (that is an EV issue only) The important issue is total cost of life, which is the cost of the batteries and the lifetime of them. So more important to me is batteries that would have a very long life and not be particular about how deep they were charged and discharged. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Jones Posted August 8, 2021 Share Posted August 8, 2021 liquid metal is future Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteamyTea Posted August 8, 2021 Share Posted August 8, 2021 16 minutes ago, Dave Jones said: liquid metal is future Considering they have been around for 80 years, I keep wonder why we don't use them more. Might be that the sodium ones have to sit at 100⁰C, and can catch fire. But they run at 300⁰C when discharging. That would be a higher temperature than the water combing out of a combi boiler, so must be 3 times better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeSharp01 Posted August 8, 2021 Share Posted August 8, 2021 5 hours ago, SteamyTea said: Yes, they claim it will be a tenth of the price. The real problem is we don't have the right physics at the atomic level. Who decided it was a good idea to have electron shells, what we want is odd numbers of electrons loosely bound to the nucleus, and stop that trick of everything wanting to go to the lowest energy state, less entropy is needed (or is it more, I never know). Not sure we will be allowed by the powers that be to re-write the laws of physics - besides which they would have to change everywhere and the effects would be interesting to say the least?. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvin Posted August 8, 2021 Author Share Posted August 8, 2021 2 hours ago, Dave Jones said: liquid metal is future Well I don't know if I want a 500C battery in my shed.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvin Posted August 8, 2021 Author Share Posted August 8, 2021 2 hours ago, SteamyTea said: Considering they have been around for 80 years, I keep wonder why we don't use them more. Might be that the sodium ones have to sit at 100⁰C, and can catch fire. But they run at 300⁰C when discharging. That would be a higher temperature than the water combing out of a combi boiler, so must be 3 times better. Perhaps we could just run the batteries and throw away the boiler? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferdinand Posted August 8, 2021 Share Posted August 8, 2021 4 hours ago, Dave Jones said: liquid metal is future John B Goodenough is still alive, so the "since" is not very convincing. ? Interesting vid, though. Anyone remember "Buddies - the greatest invention since the drawing pin"? (We need them in Notts, as drawing pins are very much looked down upon in schools here.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Temp Posted August 8, 2021 Share Posted August 8, 2021 2 hours ago, Ferdinand said: John B Goodenough is still alive, so the "since" is not very convincing. ? Indeed, he popped uo in news feeds only last year working on solid state battery tech at age 98... https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/nobel-prize-winning-inventor-of-the-lithium-ion-battery-has-his-eyes-set-on-the-next-big-breakthrough-in-energy-storage-301132645.html 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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