Has my roofer put my tiles on properly?

[Azrim91]

Hi all, I’m really hoping I can get some expert advice on some new roof tiles I’ve had put on. 
 

ive had my very old roof tiles replaced with new Battons and valleys. 
 

I noted that the second row of tiles on my gable area seem to be getting shorter and shorter. 
 

Is this bad tiling or is it due to the original structure of my gable? 
 

 

[wozza]

Batten spacing looks like it is out - starts about the 6th row down, and then its out again further down.

 

Do you have any photos before it was tiled? Are the gutters level? 

 

The ridge of the gable looks level so I see no reason why the tiles should not be level.

 

When I did mine I used a few pieces of batten as spacers (all cut to the same length) so the battens were all equally spaced apart from the top row. 

Edited July 22, 2021 by wozza

[tonyshouse]

That is not really a problem, the head lap on the whole gable looks a bit short and I would rather have seen them overlapping more into the valley. New lead was a must do in my book 

[nod]

19 minutes ago, tonyshouse said:

That is not really a problem, the head lap on the whole gable looks a bit short and I would rather have seen them overlapping more into the valley. New lead was a must do in my book 

Plus one 

The head Lapp looks really short 

Hes left the valley short so he could walk up it while pointing it 

I’d have rather had it lapped in further with tile clips and no pointing 

[Azrim91]

Thank you for the reply. I’ve got an image of the other side of the gable too, but no previous images I’m afraid. 
 

also, I’m so sorry for sounding like a complete amateur, but would you mind explaining what the head lap and what pointing is? :S 

 

 

[MikeSharp01]

Could they not get straight battens / get the battens straight? 

[markc]

Looks pretty poor to me, the valley is going to be a nightmare. the missing corner would annoy me to death and the wavy battens are just poor workmanship/not caring

[James Newport]

8 hours ago, Azrim91 said:

 

also, I’m so sorry for sounding like a complete amateur, but would you mind explaining what the head lap and what pointing is?

The pointing is the mortar in the lead valleys, between the tiles and the lead. To stop little birds making nests, so I was told by a roofer. 

 

The headlap is how much one tile overlaps the other. The tile manufacturer will specify how much the tiles should overlap based on the pitch of the roof. Nip up to the scaffolding and measure it before any verge goes on (verge is something to cover the edges of the tiles that are exposed)

[Azrim91]

Thanks all. I’ve spoken to my builder/project manager and he’s adamant that the structure of the gable means they’ve had to put the tiles in that way. He did mention they could cut the top of the tiles to make it match but it’s mean the tiles won’t have anything to hook onto. He also claims the valleys are perfectly fine and will drain any water without leaking. Aesthetically the gable it looks very poor which I guess I could just live with… my main issue is, will this cause any leakage or mean that I’d need to get the roof fixed in the near future? Will the valleys also cause any issues? Once again, I really appreciate all your input in this very stressful period for myself. 

Edited July 23, 2021 by Azrim91

[saveasteading]

That photo won't appear in the tile manufacturer's brochure. 

Have you looked at it to see what they suggest?

I imagine that only the little upstand holes at cuts should be filled with mortar.

 

My suspicion is that this great splodge of mortar is to conceal a very wavy line of cut tiles, and some broken corners, and to  secure little triangles that are insecure.

 

Someone with more knowledge of tiling can answer, perhaps,  is there a minimum cut size of tile, so that tiny pieces are not used to dress into the flashing?

Would that require some half / 1 and a half tiles, and planning ahead?

 

[saveasteading]

https://redland.co.uk/settings/resources/files/documents/redlandcasestudy_heathrow-amended0.pdf

 

That is a similar tile, and the valley does not look like yours. 

I couldn't immediately see a 'how to' document. Perhaps email Redland (or whoever) and ask.

[makie]

They are clueless unfortunately.

Should be new lead in the valley,

There is no excuse for not marking out the batten gauge properly,

They have used the wrong flashing kit at the velux (they used a slate flashing kit at the bottom)

The cement work in the valley is poor.

Get a roofer to inspect it and point out all the issues.
 

[makie]

24 minutes ago, saveasteading said:

That photo won't appear in the tile manufacturer's brochure. 

Have you looked at it to see what they suggest?

I imagine that only the little upstand holes at cuts should be filled with mortar.

 

My suspicion is that this great splodge of mortar is to conceal a very wavy line of cut tiles, and some broken corners, and to  secure little triangles that are insecure.

 

Someone with more knowledge of tiling can answer, perhaps,  is there a minimum cut size of tile, so that tiny pieces are not used to dress into the flashing?

Would that require some half / 1 and a half tiles, and planning ahead?

 

 

Using cement in the valleys is common down in England, this is just a poor job.
 

Small cuts will always happen in a valley (better to have them at the valley than the verge)

[saveasteading]

I know more about English building than Scottish, and still not a lot. This looks southern Spanish.....mortar everywhere, nice and thick: it doesn't matter that it soaks  up the rain because it will soon dry again.

 

For my own benefit, though, when approaching a cut, do you not avoid a tiny piece by using a bigger tile , ie exchange the previous tile for a one and a half, and cut a small piece off that?

 

Same principle as for concrete slabs, block paving, bricks?

 

Excuse my wobbly line sketch: just discovered this tool. 

[makie]

11 minutes ago, saveasteading said:

I know more about English building than Scottish, and still not a lot. This looks southern Spanish.....mortar everywhere, nice and thick: it doesn't matter that it soaks  up the rain because it will soon dry again.

 

For my own benefit, though, when approaching a cut, do you not avoid a tiny piece by using a bigger tile , ie exchange the previous tile for a one and a half, and cut a small piece off that?

 

Same principle as for concrete slabs, block paving, bricks?

 

Excuse my wobbly line sketch: just discovered this tool. 

 

Like I said it's more of an English method for doing valleys.

Most tiles don't have a tile and a half version and those that do would have extreme wait-times just now. Usually when I do a small cut it has a decent bit of the tile buried so it's not a weak point, but based on how this is done I wouldn't bet on it.

[saveasteading]

Apologies azrim91 (presumably very old or very young)  for slight hijacking of this, but it may be useful, if there was a better way as a standard technique.

 

Makie, do most tile ranges include half tiles, if not 1 and 1/2 ? Would it be possible to add a half tile as the penultimate in the row, then cut a full tile to a bigger size?

 

If there is no other option but to use a small triangle, what do you do? drill a new fixing hole? Bed mortar onto the roof deck? Glue?

[Dave Jones]

shocking bad workmanship. Looks like they didn't know what they were doing.

 

They worked out batten gauge correct and then didnt get it square on the roof, the cuts are woeful. 

 

Why didnt they use a dry valley so none of that muck would have been needed.

 

As Phil the greek said looks like its been done by indians.

[tonyshouse]

There will always be silly little bits in a valley, even with a dry valley 

[Dave Jones]

Just now, tonyshouse said:

There will always be silly little bits in a valley, even with a dry valley 

 

there is an upstand on a dry valley to support small cuts.

[dpmiller]

clips are available too.

[makie]

1 hour ago, Dave Jones said:

 

there is an upstand on a dry valley to support small cuts.

 

Not always, there are multiple types of dry valley.

[makie]

2 hours ago, saveasteading said:

Makie, do most tile ranges include half tiles, if not 1 and 1/2 ? Would it be possible to add a half tile as the penultimate in the row, then cut a full tile to a bigger size?

 

If there is no other option but to use a small triangle, what do you do? drill a new fixing hole? Bed mortar onto the roof deck? Glue?

 

Unfortunately not. Can drill a new fixing, hold it up with an extra batten in the right place depending on the side it's on. Small cuts can be bigger under the tile but glue and a clip help hold them on some sites.

[Azrim91]

Thank you everyone for replying, it’s really opening my eyes to the work my roofing contractor did. I still have the scaffolding up. 
 

what major concerns should I raise with my builder so that I’m not having to redo this roof in a few years time? 

[James Newport]

My major concern would be if that's how shocking it looks then clearly a competent roofing person didn't do the work. So then what else is wrong? 

 

- They put the first few battens up, realised they messed up the spacing, but rather than fix it properly they just slapped on an extra batten to add an extra row of tiles, which is why you have those far smaller looking tiles at the top. The tiles on the main part of the roof seem to be spaced closer together towards the top as well. 

 

 - They couldn't even get the battens straight. All that talk of the structure of the roof means this is how they had to do it is total [expletive deleted by forum]. The only thing that could force such wonky looking battens is if a tiny black hole - or other similarly dense thing - has warped the very fabric of reality up on your roof. Wait...similarly dense thing? Was your builder/project manager up there when they were roofing it?

 

 - One technique to get a nice line on the cut tiles in the valley is to lay whole tiles and then run a disk cutter down them in one go. Which is fine if you put something over the lead to protect it, but if not, one slip and there's a gash in the lead that is easily hidden by the mortar. 

 

 - There is a house near me that was renovated and it was well known as the wonky house because that's how it look. Took aaaaages to sell. I would not buy a house where some of the roof looks like that. 

 

 - Someone pointed out that the flashing beneath the velux is the wrong type i.e. not designed for your tiles.

 

 - The cement work looks poor, and there look to be shrinkage cracks in it already (could just be tricks of the light in the picture though)

[James Newport]

Here's a link to how valleys should be constructed. 

https://rcimag.co.uk/sandtoft-blog/how-to-ensure-the-correct-detailing-of-pitched-roof-valleys

Ask your guy if they did any of this. 

 

Wish I hadn't found this article now though, since I'm pretty sure the mortar in my valleys was laid directly on the lead ?