How to find a slow leak?

[CC45]

3 hours ago, Nickfromwales said:

Your a big boy now Joe. Wipe those tears away and come for a cŵtch cariad. 

 

 I'm happy to translate if anyone doesnt undersrand......

[Jeremy Harris]

5 minutes ago, CC45 said:

 I'm happy to translate if anyone doesnt undersrand......

 

Be good for a laugh, it made me chuckle when Nick posted it! 

 

I spent the time driving from Cornwall up to South Wales Caving Club most weekends for a few years learning Welsh from cassette tapes, purely so I could eavesdrop on conversations in one of the local pubs, where the regulars switched to speaking Welsh every time we walked in.  It was good for a laugh, as after about 6 months I felt confident enough to engage one of them at the bar, in conversation, in Welsh.  The expression on his, and his mates, faces was a picture - you could see the cogs whirring around as they desperately tried to remember how rude they'd been about the English whilst we were in there...................

[CC45]

4 hours ago, Nickfromwales said:

 

 

3 minutes ago, JSHarris said:

 

Be good for a laugh, it made me chuckle when Nick posted it! 

 

I spent the time driving from Cornwall up to South Wales Caving Club most weekends for a few years learning Welsh from cassette tapes, purely so I could eavesdrop on conversations in one of the local pubs, where the regulars switched to speaking Welsh every time we walked in.  It was good for a laugh, as after about 6 months I felt confident enough to engage one of them at the bar, in conversation, in Welsh.  The expression on his, and his mates, faces was a picture - you could see the cogs whirring around as they desperately tried to remember how rude they'd been about the English whilst we were in there...................

As a fluent Welsh speaker I've never actually changed from speaking English with my mates (why would I be speaking English to them if we can all speak Welsh?) to Welsh.  How do you know they were speaking English before you walked in?  I've sat in pubs on my own and never actually experienced this.  If any of my fellow Welsh people have been this rude - I apologise on their behalf.  I'd love to know how this 'rumour' started!  

 

Before I get accused of anything, I'm not being confrontational.  My other half isnt Welsh & I'd be really annoyed if she was treated like this.

 

Back to working out how we lost to Scotland earlier today......

[Nickfromwales]

It happens, and not just in Welsh.  

My wife's good friend ( and maid of honour at our wedding ) is Pakistani. Every time my wife was around her and her family she had to say "oi, in English please" as they'd often switch back and forth without even realising. 

I grew up not speaking fluent Welsh, but in a house where my 2 stepsisters both learned and spoke fluent Welsh, as their dad was fluent too. Add to that me doing GCSE level 'book' Welsh but inadvertently reverting to the local dialect, when asked a question in the classroom, which got right up the teachers nose. 

I got a D

Oh, and as for Welsh pubs, the further out you go, the Welshier the crowd get. 

[Onoff]

Aged about 2 years old I got lost in Wales. A Welsh sheepdog found me! Mum and Dad had friends who owned a pub in Crickhowell.

 

Wife's uncle married a Welsh girl, moved up there and learnt the language etc. Don't think he had any trouble. Had a place next to a reservoir....Niath...Nyeth...something like that. Near Merthyr?

Edited February 26, 2017 by Onoff

[Steptoe]

I've never had an issues in Wales, one pub we used to frequent down near Pembrey was more than friendly, only one old bloke in the corner that simply couldnt speak anything but Welsh, I suppose not being English helped us a lot, so I was told.

I think sometimes English only speakers feel a bit paranoid, my wife used to be like that , [an English lass] , and after almost 9 years together no idea what some of my friends say when we visit my family, she says I often flick across too when talking to our kids, I just dont realise I do it, or trying to explain something to her and she thinks sometimes I'm just too lazy to think of the English word for it, or, literally, there is somethings I just dont know the English word for, or perhaps there isnt one.

 

[Triassic]

A group of us went for a meal in a restaurant in German. We were talking English at the table and the waitress took our order in English, a few minutes later she was stood at the back of the resturant talking  to the other waitress and slagged us off in German. My mate, beconded her over and in fluent German asked not to slag us off, red faced she dashed off and we didn't see her again for the whole meal.

 

Be careful what you say!

Edited February 26, 2017 by Triassic

[Jeremy Harris]

9 hours ago, CC45 said:

 

As a fluent Welsh speaker I've never actually changed from speaking English with my mates (why would I be speaking English to them if we can all speak Welsh?) to Welsh.  How do you know they were speaking English before you walked in?  I've sat in pubs on my own and never actually experienced this.  If any of my fellow Welsh people have been this rude - I apologise on their behalf.  I'd love to know how this 'rumour' started!  

 

Before I get accused of anything, I'm not being confrontational.  My other half isnt Welsh & I'd be really annoyed if she was treated like this.

 

Back to working out how we lost to Scotland earlier today......

 

It was a very odd pub, to be honest, and the landlady really didn't like anyone but her local regulars coming in.  The bar was a sort of serving hatch in the wall, that she kept closed and you had to knock to get her to open it and serve you.  Nick may know of it, if it's still there, as it's 20 odd miles up the valley from him, I think.  It was the Ancient Briton, on the A4067, just North of Glyntawe (the caving club is up on the hill at Penwyllt, owns a row of ten cottages up there).  Back then it was a "no women" pub, with a sign outside saying such.  That area at that time was mainly English-speaking, and it was pretty clear in that small pub when conversations switched language, as soon as the regulars realised that we weren't locals.  In the end we were stopped from going there, as the landlady added a "no cavers" notice outside, under the one that said "no women", for no reason that anyone, even the locals, ever found out.  We switched to drinking in Abercraf, at the Copper Beech, where the landlord made us very welcome, even letting us use his function room for meetings.

[Onoff]

I thought I was done for in Corfu about 30 years ago. Decided to trek into the hills on my own well off the tourist trail. Scorching heat when eveyone else was having a siesta or their equivalent (think mad dogs and Englishmen). Drank the 4 or so litres of water and needed more. Found a little village with an all in one cafe/general store/garage/pub. Walked in and it was full of swarthy Greeks playing dominos and drinking. Half sun blinded I was in there and at the "bar" before I knew where I was. They all stopped talking. Back then I had a blond crew cut, over 6' etc. The barman's first words were "German?". When I stammered "English!" he slapped a thimble on the counter and brought out a bottle of Ouzo! If I thought I was dehydrated when I went in!

 

Over here I've walked into an English country pub with a girl who's skirts been barely there and had the same thing with disapproving looks from the locals. The talking stops as the in flight dart hits the board!

 

"Remember the Alamo!" / "Stick to the roads lads!"

 

EDIT: "Pub Tales" thread?

Edited February 26, 2017 by Onoff

[SteamyTea]

9 hours ago, Steptoe said:

I think sometimes English only speakers feel a bit paranoid, my wife used to be like that , [an English lass]

Where are you from?

[Onoff]

2 hours ago, SteamyTea said:

Where are you from?

 

Steps is the one on the left:

 

 

[Steptoe]

4 hours ago, SteamyTea said:

Where are you from?

I'm a biercy, from county Antrim in norn iron, we speak a dialect of Lallans. 

I only learnt English when I went to posh school at 11, 

[SteamyTea]

I was at 'posh school' when I was 11, it was French

[Nickfromwales]

5 hours ago, Onoff said:

EDIT: "Pub Tales" thread?

Oh shit. We've done it again 

[drliamski]

59 minutes ago, Nickfromwales said:

Oh shit. We've done it again 

 

 

Somewhat Hijacked ?

 

So having tried to bag the overflow, I discovered that it is plumbed into the soil pipe. 

 

Pumped using  a sauermann.  Shall I disconnect inside the clear pipe before it leaves basement and gauge PRV?

 

See attached images

 

L (non welsh speaker)

 

 

 

 

 

[ProDave]

That's the condensate drain from the boiler isn't it, not the PRV discharge pipe?
 

[Nickfromwales]

It's both combined Dave. It's a pumped solution and the discharges are allowed to be combined in situations where you can demonstrate to BC that there was no practical alternative location. 

It has to be piped in plastic all the way to soil as it has the condensate water in it.    

[Nickfromwales]

36 minutes ago, drliamski said:

Shall I disconnect inside the clear pipe before it leaves basement and gauge PRV?

Nope. The clear pipe discharges condensate as well as prv water so will give you a false reading. 

Separate the grey prv pipe from the pump, ( rear right vertical connection which should be a push fit into the black rubber pump connector ) and put that into a clear bag. Don't use a jar as you need it to not evaporate. 

[ProDave]

One rule for me, and another for others it seems........
 

[Nickfromwales]

10 minutes ago, ProDave said:

One rule for me, and another for others it seems........
 

Not quite ?

That install appears subterranean so the only way to get the discharge out is to pump it. 

You have no 'excuse', pardon the phrase, as your cylinder is upstairs and you have every reasonable opportunity to get D2 installed as per the book.

If you can demonstrate to BC that you cannot, reasonably, locate the boiler to allow this, they'll give you permission to deviate from the MI's and sign it off as an exceptional circumstance. 

 

Edited to add : hence the availability of the combination pump ?

[Steptoe]

13 hours ago, SteamyTea said:

Where are you from?

 

sorry to hijack, and tbh a pretty rubbish site,

but my missus has got a lot of useful bits and bobs from it at times.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/ulsterscots/learn/lesson/1

 

[drliamski]

So topped up the boiler as after running for the morning was below minimum. This was yesterday.

Nothing into bag by the evening.

Then when I got home from work checked it and bag contained 30ml of water, however there must be a pinhole as some water on floor of basement.

 

Should I keep monitoring?

 

 

Water on floor

 

 

[Jeremy Harris]

It looks like the PRV is letting by, as already suggested.  Ours did this once, when the system went over-pressure slightly (the damned useless installers trying to fix their own problem - badly), and it seemed to never seal again afterwards.  The only fix was to get the PRV replaced with a new one.

 

In our case, part of the problem was that when the installers were mucking around trying to fix the persistent fault the thing had from day one, they "accidentally" released the pre-charge in the pressure vessel, so there was no where for the water to expand to when the boiler fired up.  Worth getting the pressure vessel pre-charge checked when the system is de-pressurised to fit the PRV.

 

Nick's the boiler expert here, though, so I'd wait for his opinion before doing anything.

[ProDave]

I would be surprised if just letting 30mL of water out would drop the pressure that much.  I strongly suspect your expansion vessel either does not have enough air charge, or it has failed altogether.  
 

[Nickfromwales]

Thanks J, no pressure lol. 

+1 to Daves comment. 

I think this may be a bit more than just the PRV passing, as there usually has to be a problem in order for it to open in the first place. My first guess is that the system volume ( when hot ) is greater than the actual capacity of the boiler expansion vessel ( EV ). 

@drliamski, what is the running ( set ) temp of th CH when it's on ? The boiler temp not the room stat temp please. . 

Ill also assume that if the existing radiators are still there, then the flow temp is probably running quite high to compensate for the fact that the rads aren't great at getting the heat out of the water and into the rooms. That will eggagerate the issue enough to push the system over its normal operating capacity, and cause the problems your having. 

I think this needs a secondary EV added to the heating return pipework, say 8-12 litres capacity, but first things first, the existing EV pre-charge pressure needs to be checked, along with the state of the diaphragm. 

 

With the boiler cold and the pressure at 1.5 bar, depress the shraeder valve centre pin on the EV ( the valve that looks like a car tyre inflation valve ) and allow all / any of the air to escape. Keep the pin depressed for a full minute afterwards. This will prove that the rubber diaphragm inside the EV hasn't become perforated. If it has, water will eventually come out of the shraeder valve during the 1 minute 'test period'. If it does, the EV will need replacing. If it doesn't, it'll simply need to be re-pressurised accordingly. Instructions for that upon request. 

 

The big bummer here, if it turns out to be as I suspect, ie insufficient EV volume, is that it's actually an installer error. So if that's the case, maybe ask them to fit the unit FOC? Needs a bit of investigation and surmising before pressing any buttons though.