dogman Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 Trying to sort a start date but want to make sure i am ready for them I am still waiting for the final plan pack from them so don't know what information i will get. From those who went with MBC to what extent do you need to mark out the site. I have set the FFL and GL as well as marked out the footprint of the dig as well as the depth of the different areas to be dug. ( by a groundworker not MBC) When MBC arrive i will have a start point on one corner and a building line to work from. Do they need profiles at each change or wall as a traditional build would need? I have looked at photos some of you have posted and some have them and some don't With the drainage for foul they will bring the pipes out the side by 1m. As i am using an existing drainage system, i was going to connect them as i go, from experience will this cause them a problem? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickfromwales Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 19 minutes ago, dogman said: With the drainage for foul they will bring the pipes out the side by 1m. As i am using an existing drainage system, i was going to connect them as i go, from experience will this cause them a problem? I think they'll be more than happy to just leave you the tails sticking out for you to connect up as and when. One less thing to distract them from the important stuff . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy Harris Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 All I did was lay the base stone in compacted layers, to their spec, with around 300mm all around as an additional French drain. I had a soil pipe coming up and some ducts for the water pipe, phone line and power cable, all in exactly the right place according to my plans. They had those positions and they laid and levelled the 50mm grit layer and placed the outer ring of EPS, with the upstands, so that the North East corner was in the correct position relative to my datum point near that corner, and with the North wall parallel with the retaining wall we'd already built, and the correct distance away from it (again, as per my plans). The didn't lay any drainage pipes for us, as we'd already put them all in well under the sub-base and had them pressure tested for BC before MBC arrived on site. That, together with the compacted sub-base of type 3, was all done by our ground works guy. The did leave the UFH tails poking up out of the slab on a temporary timber frame and also put the 25mm conduit I'd made up to take power from the wall to the kitchen island in the place I'd marked out on the plans. This is what our site looked like not long before the MBC guys arrived; you can just make out the ducts and soil pipe poking up at the centre left in the distance (the other stuff is the ground works guys radio and tool box). The type 3 is 150mm deep, whacked down in layers: 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oz07 Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 As in out the side underground re your drains? I take it your groundwork people are doing this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogman Posted February 21, 2017 Author Share Posted February 21, 2017 The groundwork team are just digging out and muck away leaving a level site plus a 225mm strip around one area for the external ring beam for a plinth. I have MBC laying the hardcore that i will supply. The soil pipes will be supplied and laid by MBC and protrude out the base by 1m and then into a chamber (3 into one) this then joins onto an old clay pipe that is the existing pipe for the septic tank. I will do all the drainage myself. The drains do not need to go any deeper than the base to maintain the fall needed. As i have several ducts to sheds and garage i will put them in before mbc arrive as they can go under the sub base Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jack Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 From memory we just gave them a FFL mark and a site plan, and they worked from there. I suspect that even if you mark it out they'll double check anyway, and since they're doing drains as well I suspect they'll be even more sure to carefully measure everything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogman Posted February 21, 2017 Author Share Posted February 21, 2017 I think i will leave it to them. But check and check again as we have seen that sometimes the pipes are in the wrong place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barney12 Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 Trying to be objective: i think this is an area where MBC really could be a lot clearer. I appreciate every site is different but you are left with little idea of "what" MBC will do at the slab stage and what they need doing in advance. I have yet to find a single tradesperson (groundwroker, builder, blocky etc) that doesn't look at you 'boss eyed' when you start explaining a passive slab design. Most have been doing "standard construction" for more years than I've been drinking in the pub . So even the "basics" start to raise questions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jack Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 We were lucky that the groundworker we were recommended happened to have done one of these slabs before (not for MBC), so had a good idea what was going on. Then again, we also spoke to a couple of others and explained what we needed (grade of stone, pipes and conduits coming up in place) and they all seemed, at least on the face of it, to understand what was required. Hillard Tanner's foundation drawings are pretty clear, so I'd be concerned if they couldn't understand what they needed to do. I found their needs pretty clear, and any questions were always answered quickly and completely by phone. Of course, trades definitely gave us the eye you talk about, but we had that from almost everyone along the way (including people who don't even know how things are done traditionally). I think the electrician was the only one who was completely positive and thought the whole "different way of doing things" was wonderful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy Harris Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 My take on this was the same as with the ground works guys; I drew up plans and double checked all the dimensions before going out to tender, then double checked things on the ground to make sure everything was in the right place. I remember clearly checking the position of the soil pipe and ducts with the ground works guy, we measured and re-measured about three times, and in the end he just went and got the Total Station out to be absolutely sure they had put the stuff in the right places. With the MBC guys it was different, as they came with plans laminated in plastic and were clearly pretty good at getting the slab laid out very accurately, so after one check at the corner I left them to it. I think it's important to remember that you, or your project manager or architect, has responsibility for taking the lead on this, so you need to be the one checking and providing the accurate plans and drawings, and providing oversight if needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogman Posted February 21, 2017 Author Share Posted February 21, 2017 I am yet to see what we get from MBC other than the agreed frozen drawings that have dimensions and the ducts and drainage. The slab design i have received shows sections of construction and dimensions but they come from BuildLite not Hillard. Hopefully by Thursday it will all become clear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy Harris Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 (edited) All I had was the agreed drawings as per contract, which were the drawings I'd sent them but with some slightly changed dimensions to fit the 400mm centres better and a fair bit more detail on the dimensions of the walls, etc. I asked for, and received, copies of these in AutoCad .dwg format so I could use them as the basis for the modified drawings I drew up for building control. What else was it you were after? Edited February 21, 2017 by JSHarris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barney12 Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 56 minutes ago, JSHarris said: I think it's important to remember that you, or your project manager or architect, has responsibility for taking the lead on this, so you need to be the one checking and providing the accurate plans and drawings, and providing oversight if needed. I completely agree. However, there is a risk that self builders (perhaps with little experience) might misinterpret the "pitch" provided by many on this site (and ebuild before) that MBC is a "complete package". MBC's own "pitch" is similar. For clarity; I'm not for one moment saying that anyone is giving false information. However, there is a risk that people might interpret the "package" offering by MBC (and other timber frame co's) as "they do it all". What I was pointing out (in an attempt to be constructive and objective) was that they could improve by setting out more clearly what are your responsibilities in relation to groundworks and drainage. As I have said though, every site is different so it could only be generic advice but I think it would add to the offering. Of course as with most (all?) of us self builders..........we do have a habit of over thinking things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy Harris Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 (edited) You're right, but then every company I approached was the same, even one fairly local to me that seemingly offered a "turn key" package (at a very high price!). When I met with them (twice) it was clear that their idea of "turn key" was that they would supply a completed frame, they didn't even offer to provide a foundation package. I was originally going to use a project manager, in fact I retained and paid one for a short time for the first plot we were going to buy, and it was clear from talking to him that very few UK companies offered a full "turn key" self build, but that some companies outside the UK, like Huf, did. I learned quite a bit from that project manager, as he was happy to talk through the process and some of the potential "gotcha's" for self-builders. I'd have happily used him had our purchase of the plot not fallen through. By the time we'd found our plot I felt I'd picked up enough information to manage things, but for someone not familiar with what each trade or supplier is likely to do, or more importantly not do, then it could well be a bit of a shock to discover just how much coordination and project management you have to do as a self builder. Edited February 21, 2017 by JSHarris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogman Posted February 21, 2017 Author Share Posted February 21, 2017 i have been promised the plans, calculations and information to satisfy building control for the slab frame and roof. I have a separate set of plans that cover all the other aspects for BC So far the drawings i have contain no structural information such as wall construction joist spacing etc. Hopefully this will be with me by Thursday. So far MBC have been nothing but helpful. Its the company that has been doing the slab that's caused my delay. I know MBC have found it equally frustrating. As we will not now manage our agreed start date i am faced with being slotted in between other builds. I have had the added worry of BC questioning the slab before even seeing it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triassic Posted February 22, 2017 Share Posted February 22, 2017 8 hours ago, dogman said: I am yet to see what we get from MBC other than the agreed frozen drawings that have dimensions and the ducts and drainage. The slab design i have received shows sections of construction and dimensions but they come from BuildLite not Hillard. Hopefully by Thursday it will all become clear. I'm confused, who are Buildlite and what is there relationship with MBC and Hilliard? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy Harris Posted February 22, 2017 Share Posted February 22, 2017 1 hour ago, Triassic said: I'm confused, who are Buildlite and what is there relationship with MBC and Hilliard? My understanding is that they are the UK suppliers of the passive slab components, as distinct from the Irish component supplier, Kore Ireland. My guess is that MBC switched to a UK, rather than Irish, supplier when they moved to Gloucester. Here's their website - looks identical to the passive slab we have: http://www.build-liteuk.co.uk/products/future-found/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterW Posted February 22, 2017 Share Posted February 22, 2017 They used to be called Future Found in Rotherham - looked at them a while back but never took the quote past the initial enquiry stage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy Harris Posted February 22, 2017 Share Posted February 22, 2017 (edited) Just to clarify this, MBC are splitting the work between Hilliard with Kore and Buildlite (now run by a chap from Cork, apparently). The foundation system's the same, it's just that they needed more capacity and Hilliard was working flat out on designs and sign-offs, and Buildlite can provide the same standard of service and performance, with their own engineer doing the design and sign-off, so it gives them additional capacity. Edited February 22, 2017 by JSHarris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogman Posted February 22, 2017 Author Share Posted February 22, 2017 just a quick update. i received the pack from MBC today as promised, 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barney12 Posted April 20, 2017 Share Posted April 20, 2017 On 22/02/2017 at 20:06, JSHarris said: Just to clarify this, MBC are splitting the work between Hilliard with Kore and Buildlite (now run by a chap from Cork, apparently). The foundation system's the same, it's just that they needed more capacity and Hilliard was working flat out on designs and sign-offs, and Buildlite can provide the same standard of service and performance, with their own engineer doing the design and sign-off, so it gives them additional capacity. Just to return to his thread: LABC Waaranties have just turned down my warranty quote request because Future Found has no BBA (or equivalent) aproval. I've asked MBC to clarify the situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy Harris Posted April 20, 2017 Share Posted April 20, 2017 (edited) My understanding is that the material has the appropriate approval, but that in general, it's down to the SE to certify the system. BBA don't actually provide certification of systems usually, only the constituent materials. For example, the Kore materials have NMAI approval (accepted as being equivalent to BBA under EU rules), but they don't (and cannot) provide foundation system approval for a specific design of house. That responsibility falls to the SE. It sounds to me as if LABC are well behind the curve with regard to passive slab foundations, and need to understand how they are designed and where the responsibility for ensuring the design is appropriate lies. EPS has been used for decades as a foundation load bearing member, even though it's use as such here is still relatively uncommon. Edited April 20, 2017 by JSHarris typo - two "material"s Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterW Posted April 20, 2017 Share Posted April 20, 2017 1 hour ago, Barney12 said: Just to return to his thread: LABC Waaranties have just turned down my warranty quote request because Future Found has no BBA (or equivalent) aproval. I've asked MBC to clarify the situation. Contact Sennoke Insurance - they warrantied @PeterStarck build with a passive slab I found them cheaper than LABC too 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy Harris Posted April 20, 2017 Share Posted April 20, 2017 We used Sennoke for our site insurance, very flexible and, unlike Buildstore they were willing to design a flexible policy to cover a part complete house whilst it was still being finished off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gone West Posted April 20, 2017 Share Posted April 20, 2017 10 minutes ago, PeterW said: Contact Sennoke Insurance - they warrantied @PeterStarck build with a passive slab I found them cheaper than LABC too We used the Isoquick insulated foundation system and our BCO accepted it because it had LABC EW25 certification. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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