Carpenter self building *drum roll* timber frame home!

[DragsterDriver]

Morning!

I have a plot and I’m just trying to get plans done with an architect (painful!). The plot has existing planning for a potton kit but I’m wanting something different. I’ve been using lots of input from here as a guest, it’s a great resource!

ive been a carpenter (weeps) 30yrs now, also a builder for the last...15yrs i guess. I’ve finally scaled down work and have taken a ‘bridge’ on my house to buy the plot and will use a self build mortgage. I’ve really enjoyed building and have constant enquiries but sadly I’m just not ‘material’ in any way which is great for customers but during lockdown (despite working throughout) I realised I’m a workaholic for no real reason. This will be a bungalow, nothing flash but my forever home. Timber frame with lots of cladding. Well insulated but not passivhaus extremes.

 

currently pondering:

 

raft or strip footing

UFH in slab or screed

stick build or kit build

 

Thanks!

[Oz07]

Think question two will to a small extent depend on question 1. Don't discount a ground bearing slab if you do go for strip footings. I personally think separate slab and screed is old hat nowadays. 

 

Welcome any way your project should go down well here. 

[nod]

Welcome to the forum 

 

There’s lots of fellow workaholics in the building game Or like you say Just enjoy building 

 

While ground conditions may dictate your foundations 

We used strip all be it very deep strip 

We had to use Block and Beam due to being surrounded by trees 

So putting the UFH in the slab want an option 

We are about to start planning for the next two 

I hope to use strip again Hopefully not as deep this time and should be ok to use a slab with UFH and screed I’ve worked on jobs where UFH pipes have been damaged in the slab I intend tiling the floors throughout the GF So a screed will be easier to control the finish floor 

Previous was traditional 

Ive looked seriously at TF At nearly 60 it would be so convenient to get a company in to build to watertight 

But we simply can’t justify the extra cost 

 

Look forward to seeing your build unfold 

 

[Big Jimbo]

Welcome. i understand that there are many different types of timber frame available, but as a chippy imo, you have to knock up your own timber frame. Yes, you will have to get an engineer to sign it off £400? but a simple timber frame for a bungalow ain't rocket science. Go on, you know you want to.

[Russell griffiths]

If I was to go timberframe again I would look at a similar design to what MBC do with a twin wall system, or I would use i joists as studs just to get more depth for insulation. 

 

Look up a company called cullen timberframe design, that’s who I would look at to get the design done. 

[DragsterDriver]

2 hours ago, Oz07 said:

Think question two will to a small extent depend on question 1. Don't discount a ground bearing slab if you do go for strip footings. I personally think separate slab and screed is old hat nowadays. 

 

Welcome any way your project should go down well here. 

Thanks!

Generally we build everything block and beam, unless piled and ground beam ?

 

2 hours ago, nod said:

Welcome to the forum 

 

There’s lots of fellow workaholics in the building game Or like you say Just enjoy building 

 

While ground conditions may dictate your foundations 

We used strip all be it very deep strip 

We had to use Block and Beam due to being surrounded by trees 

So putting the UFH in the slab want an option 

We are about to start planning for the next two 

I hope to use strip again Hopefully not as deep this time and should be ok to use a slab with UFH and screed I’ve worked on jobs where UFH pipes have been damaged in the slab I intend tiling the floors throughout the GF So a screed will be easier to control the finish floor 

Previous was traditional 

Ive looked seriously at TF At nearly 60 it would be so convenient to get a company in to build to watertight 

But we simply can’t justify the extra cost 

 

Look forward to seeing your build unfold 

 

thanks! 
I've a few friends taking it easy post pandemic, given a lot of people time to think. As you say though, I love building  I’m not sold on ufh in the slab but it’s something I’m weighing up as an insulated raft. The cost of insulation boards is crazy at the moment and adding liquid screed to that is eye watering! But it seems air source and underfloor is the way to go.

 

I don’t suppose you have a detail for block and beam with single timber frame on a 150mm block to eliminate cold spots? I need to look at the insulated block and beam system.

 

I think timber and osb is around £10k for my build, and a chap I know will do it as panels for £19k delivered with internal studwork also osb one side. I need to run the sums really. That’s both plus trusses.

 

 

 

59 minutes ago, Big Jimbo said:

Welcome. i understand that there are many different types of timber frame available, but as a chippy imo, you have to knock up your own timber frame. Yes, you will have to get an engineer to sign it off £400? but a simple timber frame for a bungalow ain't rocket science. Go on, you know you want to.

 

thanks!

 

I've built a few places for people, never with a kit! Most of my work is big loft conversions the past few years which is essentially the same thing  
 

 

 

34 minutes ago, Russell griffiths said:

If I was to go timberframe again I would look at a similar design to what MBC do with a twin wall system, or I would use i joists as studs just to get more depth for insulation. 

 

Look up a company called cullen timberframe design, that’s who I would look at to get the design done. 

thanks!

 

just had a quick google they look really interesting! I’m at the 150mm stud with frametherm insulation stage at the moment, not passivhaus by any stretch I just want decent  

 

 

 

the architect is painful but I need him to get it all through planning...just the pace that people work at shocks me... but they may well be I’m demanding!

 

cost is definitely a consideration because I’m pretty much going ‘all in’ to finance this which should be my final home.  
 

 

 

[Oz07]

I was always led to believe ground bearing slab more efficient than block and beam because the temperature below it is higher. I think warranty companies prefer block and beam but they are dearer and not as simple. 

[nod]

29 minutes ago, Oz07 said:

I was always led to believe ground bearing slab more efficient than block and beam because the temperature below it is higher. I think warranty companies prefer block and beam but they are dearer and not as simple. 

Plus 1 

[DragsterDriver]

5 minutes ago, nod said:

Plus 1 

 

35 minutes ago, Oz07 said:

I was always led to believe ground bearing slab more efficient than block and beam because the temperature below it is higher. I think warranty companies prefer block and beam but they are dearer and not as simple. 

yeah I need to weigh it up- at the moment the cost of 100 sheets of 120mm pir board on top of the block and beam is savage. 
 

some sort of insulated raft is probably more economical. 

[Russell griffiths]

If this is your final home then you need to build it right, 150mm frame with frametherm is not decent,this will need pir board on the inside to meet regs. 

If you build a wider frame you can use cheaper insulation but more of it, any form of pir board is wicked money. 

 

 

Forget pir on the floor and go eps insulation, you will need more of it 200mm, but as it’s new build you just adjust your floor build up now. 

 

 

[Thorfun]

1 hour ago, DragsterDriver said:

just the pace that people work at shocks me

 

one of the main things I've learnt since we embarked on this self-build journey is that things take a lot longer than you think they will

[DragsterDriver]

1 hour ago, Russell griffiths said:

If this is your final home then you need to build it right, 150mm frame with frametherm is not decent,this will need pir board on the inside to meet regs. 

If you build a wider frame you can use cheaper insulation but more of it, any form of pir board is wicked money. 

 

 

Forget pir on the floor and go eps insulation, you will need more of it 200mm, but as it’s new build you just adjust your floor build up now. 

 

 

how much frametherm or similar reaches the threshold of ‘decent’?

 

I use a lot of pir board and it’s going up again bigtime before I get round to needing it for the build. The last couple of years are eye watering increases!

[DragsterDriver]

24 minutes ago, Thorfun said:

 

one of the main things I've learnt since we embarked on this self-build journey is that things take a lot longer than you think they will

I’m lucky- I usually breeze in and do the fun bit! 
 

planning officers- just have no sense of how the world works.

 

[PeterW]

2 minutes ago, DragsterDriver said:

how much frametherm or similar reaches the threshold of ‘decent’?

 

I use a lot of pir board and it’s going up again bigtime before I get round to needing it for the build. The last couple of years are eye watering increases!

About 1.5 times the thickness as it’s UValue is around 0.032 to 0.037 and PIR is 0.020 to 0.023

 

So 300mm of frametherm is good, but at that point consider Warmcell blown cellulose as that is even better. 
 

 

[Oz07]

1 hour ago, DragsterDriver said:

 

yeah I need to weigh it up- at the moment the cost of 100 sheets of 120mm pir board on top of the block and beam is savage. 
 

some sort of insulated raft is probably more economical. 

I used 200mm eps under my slab was equivalent to 150mm pir from memory but significantly cheaper 

[DragsterDriver]

24 minutes ago, Oz07 said:

 

28 minutes ago, PeterW said:

About 1.5 times the thickness as it’s UValue is around 0.032 to 0.037 and PIR is 0.020 to 0.023

 

So 300mm of frametherm is good, but at that point consider Warmcell blown cellulose as that is even better. 
 

 

I think I’d probably need to lean towards 150mm frametherm and then pir board on the internal face. 

 

 

 

24 minutes ago, Oz07 said:

I used 200mm eps under my slab was equivalent to 150mm pir from memory but significantly cheaper 

did you have underfloor heating?

[Oz07]

No ufh

[joe90]

@DragsterDriver you have not mentioned heating method, if ASHP then slab with UFH is the most efficient. (I have it in a near passive build and it’s great). Insulated slab with pipes in it, power floated will give you a finish for anything you want and a nice flat platform to build off. ?

[SteamyTea]

Welcome.

 

If you like the hard work side of the build, then you can easily get the fabric to passivhous standard.

It is really only smaller windows, thicker insulation and better airtightness.

Then save the money on the heating system (if you have a decent insulated ground floor you need a smaller, and simpler, heating system). A bath us a bath really, close your eyes and the water feels the same, a marble kitchen counter makes a pizza taste the same as a Formica counter (I hate kitchen poncery).

Have a hunt around on here for heating and ventilation, then get on eBay.

You don't need an Architect for planning.

[DragsterDriver]

54 minutes ago, joe90 said:

@DragsterDriver you have not mentioned heating method, if ASHP then slab with UFH is the most efficient. (I have it in a near passive build and it’s great). Insulated slab with pipes in it, power floated will give you a finish for anything you want and a nice flat platform to build off. ?

Yes an ashp with ufh seems the route- and an insulated slab with the pipes in the power float saves some serious dollar. I can do all of this with the exception of the power floating ?

I’d probably prefer not to go down the kore type raft, the more ‘traditional’ I make it the easier with both my knowledgebase and ability to call in favours.

 

 

[joe90]

5 minutes ago, DragsterDriver said:

I can do all of this with the exception of the power floating ?

It’s dead easy, I have done a few, just need to wait till the surface can be walked on without leaving deep marks (sure there is a Utube vid to watch), most hire shops stock them, probably best to get the pour done early am and should be floatable later that day. Don’t leave it too long or the machine will just bounce off the surface. The knack is tilting the handle up and down to get it to move the direction you want ?.

 

 

[DragsterDriver]

44 minutes ago, joe90 said:

It’s dead easy, I have done a few, just need to wait till the surface can be walked on without leaving deep marks (sure there is a Utube vid to watch), most hire shops stock them, probably best to get the pour done early am and should be floatable later that day. Don’t leave it too long or the machine will just bounce off the surface. The knack is tilting the handle up and down to get it to move the direction you want ?.

 

 

i have got access to vibrating tamps and power floats (plus a fella that can drive it ?)

 

everybody I’ve spoken to so far has looked at me like a Martian when I mention UFH in the slab though!

[joe90]

17 minutes ago, DragsterDriver said:

everybody I’ve spoken to so far has looked at me like a Martian when I mention UFH in the slab though!

not on this forum or anywhere that’s up to date with modern/efficient building methods!.

[SteamyTea]

22 minutes ago, DragsterDriver said:

everybody I’ve spoken to so far has looked at me like a Martian when I mention UFH in the slab though!

Where else would it go?

 

[DragsterDriver]

19 minutes ago, joe90 said:

not on this forum or anywhere that’s up to date with modern/efficient building methods!.

I keep referring these things to the search bar ? plenty of posts where folk are trying to convince their builder ?

 

searching ‘rafts’ next.