Flat roof considerations: Safety, Rain and Shine

[puntloos]

  On 17/10/2021 at 16:26, Mr Punter said:

Access via the small rooflight with a telescopic ladder would be my choice.  They could clean the window from on top with a reach and wash taken up through the house.  They could probably get there without actually stepping onto the roof.

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I was thinking that, yes. But is that OK for the english regulators?

[Mr Punter]

  On 17/10/2021 at 16:29, puntloos said:

I was thinking that, yes. But is that OK for the english regulators?

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Yes.

[ETC]

 

[puntloos]

  On 17/10/2021 at 16:12, joe90 said:

I have only just come across this thread and as an ex mountaineer and climber find the rules over the top. If it were my roof I would simply install a large eye bolt near the side of the large window, secured down to the roof trusses, reachable from the access small window, lanyard (short enough to not fall over the edge of the roof)  and screw carabiner and harness. This will be sufficient to clean said window but not fall, so no arrest equipment would not be needed. I still have harnesses and ropes many years old and still in good condition (they have to be stored correctly, no damp or sunlight. It’s simple enough to inspect ropes fir chaffing and harnessing fir stitching problems) but then again I would clean my own windows ?.

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Just out of curiosity, of course a rope and hook shouldn't *just* be able to hold say 150kg (assuming our average builder isn't that obese) but also the strain of such a 150kg load falling straight down for say 1m first - short drop and then a sudden stop, as a matter of speaking

 

How do you spec this out? What is the actual requirement on such loops and ropes?

 

Do you have any tips (URL?) for what type of harness and rope would be needed?

Edited October 17, 2021 by puntloos

[markc]

An anchor point for fall arrest (single person attachment) requires a 15KN pull test .. approx 1.5 tons.  This is to simulate a 100kg load falling 2 metres.

in reality you should use a short landyard to prevent going over the edge so work restraint.

 

[joe90]

  On 17/10/2021 at 18:27, puntloos said:

 

Just out of curiosity, of course a rope and hook shouldn't *just* be able to hold say 150kg (assuming our average builder isn't that obese) but also the strain of such a 150kg load falling straight down for say 1m first - short drop and then a sudden stop, as a matter of speaking

 

How do you spec this out? What is the actual requirement on such loops and ropes?

 

Do you have any tips (URL?) for what type of harness and rope would be needed?

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No, I said “short enough to stop falling from the roof” I.e. to stop the wearer going over the edge, not a “fall arrest “ first hit on tinternet shows a fall arrest https://www.screwfix.com/p/delta-plus-elara130-fall-restraint-kit-1-5m/6674R?tc=IA6&ds_kid=92700048793290415&ds_rl=1244069&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIx9P9ua3S8wIVk2DmCh36dwUnEAQYASABEgKdFPD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds, it’s not a “hook and rope”, it’s a locking carabiner and landyard with full body harness designed specifically for this purpose. What more is required?

 

Edited October 17, 2021 by joe90

[joe90]

  On 13/10/2021 at 05:33, markc said:

If you provide a harness and land yard that prevents someone going over the edge then you have covered yourself. 

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I agree 

[joe90]

  On 12/10/2021 at 22:47, saveasteading said:

If you end up hanging by the waist on a rope, or even in a proper harness (stops the artery in the crutch I think) , you will not survive long, and need to be got down. Therefore needs access equipment on the ground too.

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Trust me I have spent a long time hanging in a climbing harness (not a full body harness) and it does not cut off arterial blood ?. Plus I am talking about a restraint (too short to allow the wearer to venture over the roof edge) not a fall arrest!.

[SteamyTea]

@joe90 

This is all we use, can usually find somewhere to wedge one in.

 

[joe90]

  On 18/10/2021 at 09:23, SteamyTea said:

@joe90 

This is all we use, can usually find somewhere to wedge one in.

 

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Yup still got those (somewhere in the loft) don’t think you will find any suitable “cracks” in a new roof (hopefully!!,)

[TonyT]

  On 17/10/2021 at 21:18, joe90 said:

I agree 

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I disagree. You need to provide training and supervision and unless you are qualified to do so, leave yourself exposed.

 

 

let the professional provide their own equipment 

[SteamyTea]

  On 18/10/2021 at 09:33, joe90 said:

don’t think you will find any suitable “cracks” in a new roof

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Just lift s few tiles and poke them in.

Climbed a slab near St. Just. About 50 m high. Top 2/3rd had nowhere to put in protection. Pretty scary that was.

Did see a sunfish from the top, so worth it.

[joe90]

  On 18/10/2021 at 09:41, TonyT said:

let the professional provide their own equipment 

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As I said I would clean them myself using my considerable knowledge of climbing equipment. I do believe health and safety is OTT, people should be allowed to make their own judgement and take responsibility for their actions without the constant blame culture. Like a previous poster, I was pulled up by a BC inspector fir climbing a ladder that had not been tied off, when I asked him how I was supposed to tie it off from the ground he muttered and walked away. Jobs worth with no real grasp on reality.

[TonyT]

Health and safety isn’t over the top it’s there to protect you, your kids, grandkids workmates at work etc.

 

too many people take short cuts when building.

[joe90]

@puntloos do you intend cleaning your own roof lights?, if not find someone who will and ask them what they consider adequate (and get it in writing!)

[markc]

  On 18/10/2021 at 09:53, TonyT said:

Health and safety isn’t over the top it’s there to protect you, your kids, grandkids workmates at work etc.

 

too many people take short cuts when building.

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A lot of H&S is definitely over the top!

recent job, working on a scaffold with a platform height of 18inches the guys had to wear full body harnesses and remain clipped on at all times,  but in the office they can stand on a chair to pin posters up.

yes the chair is higher than the scaffold tower  fitted with handrails and toe boards etc.

Edited October 18, 2021 by markc

[joe90]

  On 18/10/2021 at 09:47, SteamyTea said:

Top 2/3rd had nowhere to put in protection.

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Makes the bum twitch a bit ?

[puntloos]

  On 18/10/2021 at 10:05, joe90 said:

@puntloos do you intend cleaning your own roof lights?, if not find someone who will and ask them what they consider adequate (and get it in writing!)

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A decent idea. No I don't really intend to clean them myself if it requires any sort of skill to not die. :)

[saveasteading]

To help the window cleaner to survive, a strategy would be good. I think I would favour access through an opening skylight. Next choice is one ladder onto the lower flat roof (with a tie position permanently fixed at the eaves) then an additional ladder from there to the main roof (tied at the top, and a good idea to have a  fixed block at the bottom too. That way each ladder is relatively short.

[Bitpipe]

We have large inaccessible velux in our atrium, have never washed them in 6 years, rain seems to do the trick.

 

I assume even your flat windows would have some profile to allow rain to run off? Have you considered a self cleaning coating on the outside to minimise any need for actual cleaning?

[puntloos]

  On 19/10/2021 at 16:07, Bitpipe said:

We have large inaccessible velux in our atrium, have never washed them in 6 years, rain seems to do the trick.

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But what about the mutated flying elephants?

 

  18 hours ago, Bitpipe said:

I assume even your flat windows would have some profile to allow rain to run off? Have you considered a self cleaning coating on the outside to minimise any need for actual cleaning?

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As I understand it we need to aim for 2.5-5% incline, and yes, was planning to have that coating too. I'll see if I can get away with an openable skylight for access but perhaps it's overkill