40mm waste. Keeping smells in.

[Russdl]

It’s a bit pongy on occasions in our plant room. After a quick sniff around it would seem to be that the waste in the image below is the source but how do I seal that up? Is there a grommet thingy or do I need a HepVo type trap?
 

The two pipes going in are from the water softener. 

[Mr Punter]

If that pipe just connects to the soil system you def need a trap .

[Moonshine]

  On 18/03/2021 at 09:11, Mr Punter said:

If that pipe just connects to the soil system you def need a trap .

Expand  

 

it looks like it does, there is a grey vertical pipe to the left of the picture which i presume is the SVP.

 

Get a trap on there.

[joe90]

Yup, no trap = pongs ? Or, just fill it with some squirty foam ?

Edited March 18, 2021 by joe90

[Russdl]

Yep it’s going into that SVP behind it. The pipe coming through the wall is from the kitchen sink (that has a U bend before coming through the wall). I thought of squirty foam but hadn’t cleared it in my head how I would stop the foam dripping down the pipe and blocking the 90 degree bend at the bottom. 
 

Will one of those Hep type traps, fitted vertically work?

[andy]

I have the same plumbing I need to finish in my utility for softener and I am planning on putting one of these in:

https://mcalpineplumbing.com/overflow-fittings/tun-dishes-non-return-valves/tun5-cl-tunvalve-straight-through-clear

Or

https://mcalpineplumbing.com/overflow-fittings/tun-dishes-non-return-valves/mactunc-tundish-self-closing-valve

 

My understanding is that for regs compliance there has to be a break between the regen/overflow and drain which a tundish would give you.

 

The bit I haven't worked out is how I "properly" secure the overflow and regen outflow into a pipe that feeds in above the tundish apart from doing similar to what you've done @Russdl

 

This is work to be done in a few weeks for me, so good timing on question

 

[PeterW]

That installation as it is breaches water bylaws as you don’t have the necessary air breaks between the drain and a potable water supply. 
 

Suggest an RTFM on the water softener install and then put HepVo or similar plus correct tundish. Has to be an open tundish from memory as it must allow the drain to overflow and not contaminate the water supply hose. 

[Russdl]

@andy thanks for those links, most useful. I think I’ll have to undo what has been put here and start again with this new found knowledge. 

 

  On 18/03/2021 at 11:24, PeterW said:

Suggest an RTFM on the water softener install

Expand  

If that’s what I think it is, there is no ‘F’in installation manual.
 

The water softener supplier was going to install the softener but the plumber on site said he would install it. So the supplier left the building, along with his installation knowledge. 
 

[PeterW]

Look it up on the web ..? These things aren’t difficult to install. 

 

 

[andy]

  On 18/03/2021 at 11:24, PeterW said:

That installation as it is breaches water bylaws as you don’t have the necessary air breaks between the drain and a potable water supply. 
 

Suggest an RTFM on the water softener install and then put HepVo or similar plus correct tundish. Has to be an open tundish from memory as it must allow the drain to overflow and not contaminate the water supply hose. 

Expand  

 

I must admit to not being too clear on the exact bits here @PeterW myself.  I didn't think both a HepVo and tundish were needed if the tundish has a self-closing membrane?  Then I can just have both regen and overflow feeding in above the tundish?

[PeterW]

Would need to check as from memory there has to be the air gap and I don’t think the self sealing ones meet that - gap is measured from the lip of the tundish to the bottom of the inlet pipe. 

[Russdl]

  On 18/03/2021 at 12:03, PeterW said:

 

Look it up on the web ..?

 

Expand  

Yep, did that and drew a blank but my Googling skills have been found wanting in the past. 
 

  On 18/03/2021 at 12:03, PeterW said:

These things aren’t difficult to install. 

Expand  

It would appear not, but also not difficult to install in a non compliant fashion. I’ll endeavour to find all the rules and redo it myself. 
 

@andy the tundish solution sounds like it will be the easiest for me to go with, I’ll see what I can find out regs wise. 

[PeterW]

What make model is it ..?

[Russdl]

M3 Minimax. A Harvey clone as I understand. 

[Mr Punter]

Worth a call to the manufacturer.  They can ping you a manual.  They could wriggle out of warranty if it is not to spec.

[PeterW]

So all the ones I’ve seen installed, the regen goes to drain with an air gap but the overflow pipe has to go external. Are you putting both into the drain ..??

[Ed21]

  On 18/03/2021 at 11:55, Russdl said:

@andy thanks for those links, most useful. I think I’ll have to undo what has been put here and start again with this new found knowledge. 

 

If that’s what I think it is, there is no ‘F’in installation manual.
 

The water softener supplier was going to install the softener but the plumber on site said he would install it. So the supplier left the building, along with his installation knowledge. 
 

Expand  

So the plumber did it wrong and it's against the by-laws,

Surely the first response is to get onto the plumber for him to put it right gratis.  
 

[Russdl]

Now I realise that it is so wrong I’ll get hold of the supplier who was going to install it and have a chat with him. 
 

regarding the overflow pipe having to go external I do recall asking the supplier about that and it doesn’t have to, but I think that is where one of the tundishes that @andy linked to comes into play. 
 

I’ll update when I have some clarity. 

[Gone West]

My water softener overflow and drain both go into a waste with the overflow at the bottom RHS and drain at the top RHS. The BCO didn't say there was a problem and it's worked fine for three years.

 

Edited March 18, 2021 by PeterStarck

[Russdl]

@PeterStarck thanks for that.
 

When @PeterW mentioned the overflow going direct to outside that fired up a vague memory from before taking receipt of the water softener and being told the overflow would have to go direct to the outside, I was dead against the idea and checked with the supplier who said it wasn’t necessary. Im just waiting to hear back from him to see if your kind of set up is what he would advise. 

[Temp]

Would a washing machine style trap and upstand meet the regs? Put the kitchen waste into it to keep it filled if there isn't enough/any overflow from the water softener?

[PeterW]

  On 18/03/2021 at 17:01, Russdl said:

@PeterStarck thanks for that.
 

When @PeterW mentioned the overflow going direct to outside that fired up a vague memory from before taking receipt of the water softener and being told the overflow would have to go direct to the outside, I was dead against the idea and checked with the supplier who said it wasn’t necessary. Im just waiting to hear back from him to see if your kind of set up is what he would advise. 

Expand  

That’s from a picture on a Harvey softener that states it needs to.  The minimax is made by Harvey anyway - worth checking with them ..?

[Russdl]

@Temp thanks for the suggestion. I’ll wait and see what the supplier has to say. 

[Russdl]

@PeterW I think I vaguely recall it’s so that you can clearly see when it’s overflowing, we could achieve that in the plan room with one of those see through tundish/trap combinations. Hopefully I’ll hear back from the supplier tomorrow and update with any news - hopefully good news. 

[Gone West]

  On 18/03/2021 at 19:21, Russdl said:

@PeterW I think I vaguely recall it’s so that you can clearly see when it’s overflowing, we could achieve that in the plan room with one of those see through tundish/trap combinations. Hopefully I’ll hear back from the supplier tomorrow and update with any news - hopefully good news. 

Expand  

I had a repair carried out on my softener under guarantee and the Harveys plumber looked at the overflow pipe and the only comment was that it should be a straight pipe from the softener to the waste. Mine curved round and he altered it to be straight.