Timber Frame Supply - Recommendations

[Suffolk_J]

Hi,

 

Looking at options for timber frame supply, we are based in Suffolk and looking for something that fits the following criteria...

 

This is a build on a budget, I will be undertaking as much work as possible myself and will be project managing. The idea of timber frame is to get the basic water tight shell up as quickly and cheaply as possible with the key criteria being cost and achieving a high u-value, I would be looking for a supplier that can erect the build and I then hope to make the savings on undertaking the majority of the rest of the work.

 

I'm happy to do the leg work with potential suppliers but would appreciate any guidance or experience in pointing me in the direction of suppliers worth considering

 

Thanks in advance ?

[nod]

Using TF will allow you to achieve 

two out of three of your objectives 

Speed good U values Unfortunately TF comes at a premium Definitely not the cheapest way of building 

[Suffolk_J]

Thanks @nod, I've heard mixed things on that. A lot of people have said that when you take into additional labour cost, higher likelihood of disruption etc that there isn't too much to choose between TF and blockwork.

[Thorfun]

13 hours ago, Suffolk_J said:

Looking at options for timber frame supply, we are based in Suffolk

Welcome. I had similar criteria to you when I started looking for TF manufacturers and my decision process can be read here:

 

 

but, basically, you should get multiple quotes from multiple companies and then make a choice on those. it's not easy and we did eventually choose to go with Flight Timber and, so far, they've been great but we haven't even broken ground yet so I can't comment fully on them until we get to the stage that the TF is erected (fingers crossed in about 3 or 4 months time!).

 

once that's happened I'll be happy to share my experiences with them. but I'd say they're definitely worth a shout for a quote and they're based in Essex which isn't a million miles from you.

 

good luck.

[Suffolk_J]

Thanks @Thorfun 

 

Your project looks interesting and definitely bolder than mine! Like you say principles are similar, my intention was to look at getting quotes from at least 4 national operators and 3 more localised suppliers. I was looking for some recommendations based on my criteria, Flight Timber are definitely one to add to the list based on your experience.

 

Thanks for the advice ?

[Bitpipe]

+1 to the advice above. We were novice builders and having one company erect the frame and get it watertight & airtight plus all internal stud walls, floor decks and temp stairs, plus roof felted and battened meant we were able to tightly schedule windows, doors, roofing and cladding within a few weeks and could go straight to first fix.

 

If time=money for you then it's a good approach.

 

Just be prepared to normalise a lot of your quotes as many vendors include / exclude different items - some material and some operational (like crane hire) so it can take a bit of work to get an apples to apple comparison.

[Moonshine]

5 minutes ago, Bitpipe said:

If time=money for you then it's a good approach.

 

Also is the the Pain In The Arse (PITA) premium, that you don't have to subconstruct to more trades and coordinate them. Its a question of if you are o.k with a timber frame product and want to / can pay the premium. 

[Thorfun]

12 minutes ago, Bitpipe said:

+1 to the advice above. We were novice builders and having one company erect the frame and get it watertight & airtight plus all internal stud walls, floor decks and temp stairs, plus roof felted and battened meant we were able to tightly schedule windows, doors, roofing and cladding within a few weeks and could go straight to first fix.

 

If time=money for you then it's a good approach.

 

Just be prepared to normalise a lot of your quotes as many vendors include / exclude different items - some material and some operational (like crane hire) so it can take a bit of work to get an apples to apple comparison.

 

hey @Bitpipe. quick question on this statement. if we're doing the insulation, VCL, service void etc ourselves do we have to wait until that's finished before getting the windows fitted? from your post it sounds like you do but I was working on the principle that the TF company erect the shell and we then get the windows fitted as soon as possible after that and I can then work on getting the insulation installed etc at my leisure. but you've put a doubt in my mind now as to the order things are possible.

[HerbJ]

30 minutes ago, Thorfun said:

if we're doing the insulation, VCL, service void etc ourselves do we have to wait until that's finished before getting the windows fitted?

 

i was building my MBC timberframe house at the same time as @Bitpipe. We used the same roofing contractor and window supplier.

The most important element before windows are installed is to get the roof and guttering competed and get control of rainwater.  So, I ( and I believe @bitpipe) focussed all my early  efforts on the roof, facias and guttering being completed, with temporary downpipes before the window and door  installation. I actually started tiling the roof on one side of the house, while MBC were still finishing installing sarking on the other side!

 

The internal work on VCL and insulation was all  completed in a dry and weathertight house.

[Thorfun]

thanks @HerbJ. Did you not go for factory fitted insulation from MBC?

[HerbJ]

Yes, blown cellulose which was installed on 30 November/1 December 2015 (when this photo was taken). 

 

First delivery of imberframe started on 24 September 2015 but we had problems with cranes and erection did not start until 3 or 4 days later.

The roof installation was at the beginning of end of October and PV panels installed on 3 November 2015, to allows completion ot tiling.

The windows were delivered on 9 November 2015 and installation started same day 

Edited February 10, 2021 by HerbJ

[Thorfun]

3 minutes ago, HerbJ said:

Yes, blown cellulose which was installed on 31 November/1 December 2015 (when this photo was taken). 

 

First delivery of imberframe started on 24 September 2015 but we had problems with cranes and erection did not start until 3 or 4 days later.

The roof installation was at the beginning of end of October and PV panels installed on 3 November 2015, to allows completion ot tiling.

The windows were delivered on 9 November 2015 and installation started same day 

ahh....ok, that would account for the OSB finish internally. I guess that's different to me installing frametherm between the studs and PIR over the top. I was pretty confident that the windows can be fitted to the TF as simply an open panel TF without insulation but there is now an element of doubt!

[HerbJ]

You may be alright. I guess it will depend on how weathertight the outside layer of your frame is likley to be? 

 

Certainly, OSB was installed on the inside prior to window installation but not on the underside of the roof, which did not have OSB internally, but only VPC layer before the insulation was blown. see photo above of the roof before VPC installed - you can sse the underside of the OSB sarking. I attach a photo of the roof truuses with VPC installed before  cellulose installation.

 

Hope this helps

Edited February 10, 2021 by HerbJ

[Bitpipe]

19 minutes ago, Thorfun said:

ahh....ok, that would account for the OSB finish internally. I guess that's different to me installing frametherm between the studs and PIR over the top. I was pretty confident that the windows can be fitted to the TF as simply an open panel TF without insulation but there is now an element of doubt!

 

No, you should still be able to install the windows once the frame has been erected but you will probably want to frame out the internal reveals if your windows are straddling the insulated layer.  I recommend Compriband between the window and frame for a good seal (not foam) and when your VCL is installed you can use airtightness tape on the internal perimeter of the windows back to that. 

 

The MBC approach is to erect the structural frame and then board out the interior face to create the insulation cavity and allow windows etc to be fitted. They then cut holes in the internal OSB and pump the insulation in before sealing and completing the airtightness detail. On my build they used a new internal board that also provided the airtighness layer, at @HerbJ they applied this layer over the OSB. The service void is created by facing the insulated layer with 50mm battens onto which the plasterboard is applied.

 

This means that sockets boxes, cable runs and the like are fixed to the battens and never penetrate the airtightness layer. If you want a penetration from inside to outside, it's easy to do but you use conduit (drilled and placed at a downward angle to stop rain ingress)  and tape up where it exits the VCL. When the cable or service is run, you can seal the interior with silicone etc.

 

It's all about detailing!

 

 

[HerbJ]

1 hour ago, Bitpipe said:

No, you should still be able to install the windows once the frame has been erected but you will probably want to frame out the internal reveals if your windows are straddling the insulated layer

Yes, I agree with this, I specced marine grade ply boxes to be fitted in each window openings by MBC as part their scope (not a great photo but you get the idea).  Also a photo to illustrate what @bitpipe is explaining aboot the differnce between the VPC layer construction on my build and also the service cavity battens.

 

+1 to Compraband - used on all my windows

Edited February 10, 2021 by HerbJ

[Thorfun]

thanks @Bitpipe and @HerbJ. very useful explanations. I've already requested compriband from Norrsken it's just the window reveals that I'll need to double check on but I'm glad I've got confirmation from both of you that my plan of action will work! I need to save money and installing the insulation myself is one way of saving money but it will take me time and I don't want it to hold up anything external to get the building watertight.

 

hopefully this thread mini-hijack is also useful to the OP @Suffolk_J as it sounds like it's the same route as me.

[HerbJ]

Make sure that your window opening dimensions for your windows  are made with  the window "boxes" installed. I actually did all of mine from the timber-frame drawings and it was check check, check again with me coordinating (and taking responsibility) with MBC AND the window supplier to ensure installation tolerances were correct and the windows could be installed.

Edited February 10, 2021 by HerbJ

[Faz]

I used Harmony Timber Frame for our last penthouse scheme in Bromley and they were pretty good - Harmony Timber Timber Solutions, Harmony Timber Frame, Ireland.

 

It was around £40k supply and install for 4,000 sq. ft. of apartments.

[Suffolk_J]

Thanks @Faz another one to add to my list for quotes! With my objective being watertight basic skin with at least the capability of achieving high u-value performance (I don't mind installing insulation myself) this is the list I have so far. Any additions or feedback very welcome!

 

Potton (may not fit the brief but they are doing the neighbouring plot)

Fleming

Flight Timber

Scotframe

Taylor Lane

SMS

Frame Technologies

Lakeland

Harmony

 

I know preference and location will come into it as well as budget and varying specs, main objective at the minute is building a good prospective list to get quotes from.

 

Thanks to you all for your contributions so far ?

[Roundtuit]

I'll throw English Brothers into the mix for consideration.  We used them as they were local and competitive, and although I've nothing to compare it to, I'd say the quality of the frame and installation was first class.  I'd suggest you speak to a few of your prospective suppliers to get a feel for how they work and understand your needs, to whittle down your quote list to maybe a top 3.  There are loads of variables, and you risk chasing quotes and amended quotes for the next year...

[BartW]

1 hour ago, Suffolk_J said:

Thanks @Faz another one to add to my list for quotes! With my objective being watertight basic skin with at least the capability of achieving high u-value performance (I don't mind installing insulation myself) this is the list I have so far. Any additions or feedback very welcome!

 

Potton (may not fit the brief but they are doing the neighbouring plot)

Fleming

Flight Timber

Scotframe

Taylor Lane

SMS

Frame Technologies

Lakeland

Harmony

 

I know preference and location will come into it as well as budget and varying specs, main objective at the minute is building a good prospective list to get quotes from.

 

Thanks to you all for your contributions so far ?

Speak to English Brothers. 
 

We chose them, and whilst have not started the build yet, all dealings have been superb so far. 
 

Bart

[Haylingbilly]

Some great information on this thread. I am currently chasing a timber frame supplier - is so hard to chose! Has anyone come across Paramount Timber Frame?

Andy

[Faz]

If you want to go to Potton (Kingspan) I would strongly recommend that you visit their show homes at St Neot's.  My experience was that they were ok at first impression but walking around I thought wft more and more at column / layout positions.  I went through their entire portfolio (probably 200+) and found them all problematic with similar issues.

 

I ended up getting a basic design off this lot - House Plans UK, Architectural Plans And Home Designs - Home - House Plan UK (houseplans-uk.co.uk)  and adapting the hell out of it.

 

Going out to suppliers it is a mistake to go out far and wide - these people talk to each other.  Go to 3 - 4 tops.  If you are not happy then go to a couple more - don't splash it across the market as no-one will be interested.

[Redoctober]

11 hours ago, Faz said:

Going out to suppliers it is a mistake to go out far and wide - these people talk to each other.  Go to 3 - 4 tops.  If you are not happy then go to a couple more - don't splash it across the market as no-one will be interested.

 

I think this is a good point and was certainly the case for us with regards to builders rather than TF suppliers. I had to chase up one builder for a quote, after supplying him with a tender pack and he said he wasn't going to bother as we had already sent the same out to a number of other local builders! I found this a strange way of doing business but nonetheless, he didn't price it up! 

[Suffolk_J]

Thanks everyone, interesting point in not going out to too many providers. You'd think people would want to demonstrate why they are the best choice rather than giving up if there was more competition! I'll certainly bear it in mind when looking for quotes though.