Is PAS24 worth it?

[Adsibob]

I'm refurbing an old house. It has awful security. The area is fairly safe, or at least we thought so until about 2.5 years ago the neighbours were burgled in broad daylight. I actually witnessed it and it was pretty scary. Two guys in balaclavas turned up and managed to force open a top hung window at the front which looked pretty new but was either uPVC or white painted aluminium, whilst a third guy waited outside in a brand new audi getaway car (which obviously turned out to have fake plates).

 

I did quite a lot of research into ways of securing my house and concluded that a burglar alarm doesn't really deter professional burglars because they also tell burglars that there are valuables inside worth protecting and that having good window and door security is key, as well as possibly some video cameras (although video cameras wouldn't have really helped with the burglary i describe above). At the time we did nothing to upgrade our (pretty poor) security on the basis that our house looked like such a wreck, that that would be a better deterrent (e.g. the 1m high overgrown weeds in the front yard and our crappy car parked outside it, vs our neighbours' cars).

 

Now that we are redoing the house, it won't look like a wreck anymore and although there have been no burglaries in the area since (and our neighbours tell us that before the burglary in 2018 there had been no burglaries for many many years) we are keen to upgrade security.

 

I was therefore planning on specifying PAS24 windows with multipoint locking for all of the ground floor, as well as getting high quality locks for the front door etc. The front door will actually be made of steel and laminated glass that will comply with PAS24.

 

However, on specifying this, the window company has said that adding PAS24 to just the ground floor will make the windows look different to the other floors. On the front elevation the solution is to make the upstairs windows PAS24 as well. On the side elevation I don't care about the mismatch because we'll never see it. On the rear elevation, I can live with the mismatch because the ground floor is extended anyway, so it forms a different "volume" (my architect's favourite word) to the rest of the house, so one slightly thicker framed windows won't really matter.

 

However, the sliding door I was about to order for the rear is not PAS24. The manufacturer says it's made from toughened glass, but is not PAS24 compliant. So I'm now thinking that spending the extra 15% on PAS24 for the other ground floor windows might be a bit pointless, although I guess the burglar won't know that the back slider doesn't have as much security as the rest of the ground floor. Another solution is to add some steel security gates to the side passage to make it that much harder to access the back, but if I'm doing that query whether I need PAS24 on the window at the back.

 

What are people's thoughts on PAS24? Is it worth it and would you install it at the back even if your sliding/bifolding door didn't have it?

 

 

[jack]

6 minutes ago, Adsibob said:

The area is fairly safe, or at least we thought so until about 2.5 years ago the neighbours were burgled in broad daylight. I actually witnessed it and it was pretty scary. Two guys in balaclavas turned up and managed to force open a top hung window at the front which looked pretty new but was either uPVC or white painted aluminium, whilst a third guy waited outside in a brand new audi getaway car (which obviously turned out to have fake plates).

 

I can't comment on the windows, but it sounds like something was going on here. No-one goes to this much trouble in broad daylight to break into a random house in a generally safe area unless they know something about who is living there (or what might be onsite). Could be anything - Facebook photos showing or discussing expensive watches or jewellery, eBay sales of similar, or possibly something more nefarious (doesn't take much imagination).

 

Have a look at https://www.police.uk/pu/your-area/ to get an objective measure of the real risks in your area. 

 

That said, there's nothing wrong with getting things secure up-front.

[Big Jimbo]

I think the fear of crime is something that bothers a lot of people. Me included. In the 60's and 70's i had so much freedom to play out with my mates etc. At the weekend, or school holidays i would take off on my bike after breakfast, and not return till dinner time. My mum or dad never indicated that they were concerned. My own 3 daughters however were never allowed such freedom, and i wonder if it was because of the media. We became much more aware of peado's etc through the news media.

I have always had, House alarm. CCTV, and extra van locks.I have always worked on the basis of wanted to make my neighbours easier to burgle than me.

An old pals from a few years ago caught a burglar in his house. He detained the guy for several hours and tortoured him before calling the police to come and pick him up. He scared the guy so badly that the guy wet and poo'ed himself. My friend was prosecuted, and got 6 years for kidnap, and had to pay the guy a substantial sum of money for mental stress etc. The local cops felt quite sorry for my mate, but he was considered to have gone too far. I have often wondered if the burglar decided on a change of career after that. 

These days crims seem to be total scum, and don't seem to worry about alarms, cctv etc. Up untill recently i kept a vicious dog. Basically, there were 10 people that he would not touch. Everybody else he would attack. He caused some serious damage to a couple of undesirable visitors once. They never complained. I think they were just glad to get away.

When i decide to get another it will be a personal protection dog. Local people soon get to know what you have, and i believe that most burglars are either local, or will have checked a place out before.

[TonyT]

I agree with Big Jimbo.

[Adsibob]

1 hour ago, jack said:

 

I can't comment on the windows, but it sounds like something was going on here. No-one goes to this much trouble in broad daylight to break into a random house in a generally safe area unless they know something about who is living there (or what might be onsite). Could be anything - Facebook photos showing or discussing expensive watches or jewellery, eBay sales of similar, or possibly something more nefarious (doesn't take much imagination).

 

Have a look at https://www.police.uk/pu/your-area/ to get an objective measure of the real risks in your area. 

 

That said, there's nothing wrong with getting things secure up-front.

Well there was a £60k car parked in the driveway at the time, so I’m guessing they had hoped of stealing its keys.

[SteamyTea]

3 hours ago, Big Jimbo said:

and i wonder if it was because of the media

Shaw Taylor used to say if you see a crime to go home and forget all about it.

 

 

[Big Jimbo]

I thought he used to say "Keep em peeled"

[craig]

On 29/01/2021 at 11:20, Adsibob said:

What are people's thoughts on PAS24? Is it worth it

 

Yes

 

On 29/01/2021 at 11:20, Adsibob said:

would you install it at the back even if your sliding/bifolding door didn't have it?

 

Yes but I can't speak for every suppliers products/standard hardware.

[MortarThePoint]

I'm dubious about the extra cost myself. I just did a tot up and reckon that just the upgrade to 6.8mm laminated glass will cost >£2k for us. We could have a nice alarm and CCTV system for less than that. The next house is a distance away, so any burglar could happily arrive with a ladder and or sledge hammer and take his time. There's always a weak link and I think I'd rather it was the windows. It wouldn't take someone long to enter a house through the roof tiles if they wanted. You can get away with anything with a high vis jacket and a ladder.

 

Added to that burglary rates are in general decline. A rise in home working, as I expect to for the foreseeable future, makes burglary even less attractive.

 

I'm just feeling bitter about the extra cost though. Here's hoping I haven't tempted fate.

 

[Mr Punter]

We have slam shut doors and recently a neighbour could not get into their house, as the lock failed.  The houses are in the middle of a small quiet town.

 

After a couple of hours the locksmith gave up and we broke a rear triple glazed window. to gain access.  It was float glass for the outer 2 panes and safety glass internal.  We made a significant noise and it was at about 9:00PM.  The next door house noticed, but nobody called the police.

[ProDave]

My sister was burgled about 15 years ago, they got in through a poor very old patio door they simply lifted off it's rollers.

 

So she got that replaced with a new one.  6 months later another burglary, they simply heaved a paving slab and smashed the glass on the new patio door.

 

At that point I would have moved home but she is still there.

[MortarThePoint]

Someone may know better than me, but it looks as though if the window is locking it can be 6.4mm laminated glass and meet part Q. Secured By Design (SBD) looks to meet or exceed the requirements of part Q and there is a useful document which goes further than windows here.

Edited February 15, 2021 by MortarThePoint

[MortarThePoint]

Below are links that suggests there's scope to over specify here. If I follow the logic there is no need for laminated glass if the windows is key lockable and not within 400mm of a door of fire escape window:

 

https://emplas.co.uk/news/2017/over-specification-on-pas24-and-sbd-could-mean-installers-are-losing-business-warning/

https://www.pbctoday.co.uk/news/building-control-news/meet-security-requirements-approved-document-q/26099/

 

Has anyone had non-laminated glass double glazed windows signed off on the ground floor? For example 4mm/16mm/4mm non-toughened glass (not laminated) with a key lock?