Iceverge Posted January 28, 2021 Share Posted January 28, 2021 Hi All, The plumbers put in our UVC cylinder yesterday. I have raised a few things I spotted with the main contractor and he was getting in contact with the plumber. Could those of you with more experienced eyes please have a glance at my picture and let me know anything else that needs to be rectified. What I've noticed/questioned. 1. There is no tundish fitted and the over temp valve discharges via some 16mm pipework over a long distance to a hidden pipe into the main waste water system. 2. Does the tank require an overpressure valve on the cold feed? There is one on the cold main entering the house. 3. Does the tank require a thermostatic mixing valve? 4. Is it safe to have a switchable valve on the expansion vessel? Thanks in advance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterW Posted January 28, 2021 Share Posted January 28, 2021 1. Pipework is too small and doesn’t follow the MIs or BRegs, tundish is mandatory. 2. Yes - the MIs require a Control block with over pressure relief. 3. Depends on tank temperature. If not the bath must have one to have water below 46°C 4. No - that is in the wrong place and must be removed And all of the exposed pipework should be insulated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iceverge Posted January 28, 2021 Author Share Posted January 28, 2021 Thanks @PeterW We are in Ireland and believe it or not Bregs are silent on this. I can imagine that'll only change when there's an accident. 1. The discharge pipework into the main wastewater pipework. Will it need a trap to prevent smells or is this not allowed? 2. Understood 3. Would thermostatic mixers for the bath count? I want to have the option of storing water at the max tank temp anyway so I'll insist if only to keep the basins safe. 4. Understood. I'll get him to insulate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterW Posted January 29, 2021 Share Posted January 29, 2021 That discharge I would want at least something like a HepVO trap on it - tundish is there so you can see it leaking. That could also pass slowly and you would never see it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProDave Posted January 29, 2021 Share Posted January 29, 2021 Shouldn't the expansion vessel be upright? I have never seen one on it's side before. And when the plumber comes back get him to sign the comissioning sheet for the cylinder, both to validate the cylinder warranty and for building control to see. Though I am not sure I trust this particular plumber to know how to do it properly, he clearly can't read some simple instructions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iceverge Posted January 29, 2021 Author Share Posted January 29, 2021 The building control in Ireland is done by the design professional e.g. Architect/engineer. The process is less than rigorous and the hazards of incorrectly installed UVC's are not widely understood. I spoke to the manufacturer and he's OK with the expansion arrangement however I'll at least get them to take the handle off it. He was ok with the over temp line dimensions and length too but I can't see any reason not to redo it as per MIs when the tundish is being fitted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iceverge Posted February 16, 2021 Author Share Posted February 16, 2021 Is this ok now? TMV fitted, P&T valve now routed via Tundish and airless trap. Pipes still to be insulated. Anything else missed? Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iceverge Posted February 17, 2021 Author Share Posted February 17, 2021 Can I Bump this please to anybody who knows better? @PeterW maybe. Also what is an acceptable amount of cold water to dump before hot reaches the kitchen tap? It is 11m total pipe length to the tank. I will measure teh time and volume it in the morning when the system is cold but it took much longer than I thought to get hot water today when I first tried it. Thanks, Jonathan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterW Posted February 17, 2021 Share Posted February 17, 2021 Balancing is wrong ... why has he balanced the mixing valve only, not the full cold ..? That will exacerbate your flow to a kitchen mixer as the cold pressure is higher than the hot. tee should be gone before the control block, and cold feeds should be tee’d in where I put the blue line Also, he’s done a decent job on the relief valves but that open pipe will smell. Should have a HepVO on it or similar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iceverge Posted February 17, 2021 Author Share Posted February 17, 2021 II assumed that was what was fitted here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iceverge Posted February 17, 2021 Author Share Posted February 17, 2021 6 minutes ago, PeterW said: Balancing is wrong ... why has he balanced the mixing valve only, not the full cold .. I don't know. I suspect it's probably the same reason that 2 out of 5 taps we have are connected backwards. I had asked the builder to direct the plumber to insert the valve at the location of the Tee. Would this have been right? The build it through a main contractor. So every point I try to make is lost in translation. Its very frustrating. I'm kicking myself for not plumbing the house myself in Hep2o. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LA3222 Posted February 17, 2021 Share Posted February 17, 2021 As long as the cold feeds come after the control block then the system would be balanced. The issue as it stands is that cold is drawn to the manifold before the control block (I'm no pro - 'learnt' what little I know on here!). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iceverge Posted February 17, 2021 Author Share Posted February 17, 2021 That makes sense, However I believe the main pressure reducing valve is set to 2.5 bar from looking at the gauge. The control block is factory set to 3 bar. Would this mean that as long as my main pressure reducing valve is set below 3 bar it would still be balanced? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gav_P Posted February 17, 2021 Share Posted February 17, 2021 59 minutes ago, Iceverge said: II assumed that was what was fitted here? Yeah, that’s a fanny trap, so will keep the smells out. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gav_P Posted February 17, 2021 Share Posted February 17, 2021 (edited) Is that an isolation valve before the EV? I don’t think you can do this (just in case someone closes it). You can have a service lock valve though. oh... and can you get at the valve on the other end of the EV to check the pressure? It looks very close to the wall Edited February 17, 2021 by Gav_P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iceverge Posted February 17, 2021 Author Share Posted February 17, 2021 @Gav_P Yes, it is. I asked for the handle to be removed but alas............... Here is another view of the expansion. Will 100mm be enough? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gav_P Posted February 17, 2021 Share Posted February 17, 2021 5 minutes ago, Iceverge said: @Gav_P Yes, it is. I asked for the handle to be removed but alas............... Here is another view of the expansion. Will 100mm be enough? Yeah 100mm is plenty. Just need to get a pump on the valve (like a car tyre pump). I would definitely get that ball valve removed, or ideally replaced with a service lock. If it gets shut by accident then water will be pissing out the pressure relief valve every time the o heats up. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gav_P Posted February 17, 2021 Share Posted February 17, 2021 Just now, Gav_P said: Yeah 100mm is plenty. Just need to get a pump on the valve (like a car tyre pump). I would definitely get that ball valve removed, or ideally replaced with a service lock. If it gets shut by accident then water will be pissing out the pressure relief valve every time the o heats up. Worst case you could put something like a jubilee clip on it to stop casual / accidental closure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iceverge Posted February 17, 2021 Author Share Posted February 17, 2021 33 minutes ago, Gav_P said: Worst case you could put something like a jubilee clip on it to stop casual / accidental closure. Good plan. I could rectify the issues myself but I feel like it's not my job. Unfortunately it usually ends up being my job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iceverge Posted February 17, 2021 Author Share Posted February 17, 2021 (edited) I noticed in the kit there was a separate tank thermostat for controlling the immersions. They immersions have an inbuilt stat. Will this be enough or should the plumber have installed it? Edited February 17, 2021 by Iceverge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted February 17, 2021 Share Posted February 17, 2021 50 minutes ago, Gav_P said: I would definitely get that ball valve removed, or ideally replaced with a service lock. If it gets shut by accident then water will be pissing out the pressure relief valve every time the o heats up. I'd just leave the valve in the open position then undo the nut and remove the handle. Loosely put the nut back on and tie the handle somewhere local on a bit of string/small cable tie. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iceverge Posted February 17, 2021 Author Share Posted February 17, 2021 I think I'll do that. Would the system work as is apart from that? We were hoping to move at the weekend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gav_P Posted February 17, 2021 Share Posted February 17, 2021 12 minutes ago, Iceverge said: I think I'll do that. Would the system work as is apart from that? We were hoping to move at the weekend. I can’t see why it wouldn’t . Has the plumber not commissioned it yet then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iceverge Posted February 17, 2021 Author Share Posted February 17, 2021 43 minutes ago, Gav_P said: I can’t see why it wouldn’t . Has the plumber not commissioned it yet then? Commissioning was never mentioned. There's no G3 signoff required in Ireland. There probably should be looking at what's happened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gav_P Posted February 18, 2021 Share Posted February 18, 2021 16 minutes ago, Iceverge said: Commissioning was never mentioned. There's no G3 signoff required in Ireland. There probably should be looking at what's happened. Ah well in that case. You better check the EV is at the right pressure (usually 3 bar same as the control block, but maybe yours is 2.5?), and make sure both the T and P valves operate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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