Permitted Development During Build

[MortarThePoint]

What's the situation with permitted development during the initial build? Permitted Development would allow us to add roof lights to our attic space. Do we have to wait for the build to be signed off before then doing that or can we just roll it in to the main works?

[Mr Punter]

The consented scheme needs to be completed before PD rights can be exercised.

[jfb]

Is it a new build? You need to check to see if PD rights will exist - I think they are sometimes removed on new builds.

if a refurb/extension then I know it was sometimes done by getting planning first and then implementing works allowed under PD before the works that went through the planning process. If you did the PD work after the scope of the planning works might effectively remove PD rights. Depends on the scope of works.

[jfb]

Though this seems to contradict what punter says so maybe I’m wrong and something has changed about how it all works

Edited November 2, 2020 by jfb

[MortarThePoint]

9 minutes ago, Mr Punter said:

The consented scheme needs to be completed before PD rights can be exercised.

Annoying as that will be inefficient, but shouldn't add too much cost.

 

Do you have experience or have you seen this written somewhere in 'the rules'?

[MortarThePoint]

10 minutes ago, jfb said:

Is it a new build? You need to check to see if PD rights will exist - I think they are sometimes removed on new builds.

if a refurb/extension then I know it was sometimes done by getting planning first and then implementing works allowed under PD before the works that went through the planning process. If you did the PD work after the scope of the planning works might effectively remove PD rights. Depends on the scope of works.

 

It's a new build and roof related PD rights are intact thankfully

[PeterW]

9 minutes ago, MortarThePoint said:

Annoying as that will be inefficient, but shouldn't add too much cost.

 

Do you have experience or have you seen this written somewhere in 'the rules'?

Yes it is in the Town & Country Planning Act. A “building” only obtains permitted development rights when it is deemed to be completed to either the plans submitted and approved as part of the application, or it has been in

existance since prior to 1956 (from memory) and those PD rights have not been removed either by a blanket removal on the area or by a specific clause of approval. 

[the_r_sole]

You could do a non material amendment to your planning permission to do those works during the construction phase.

If it's something that falls into permitted development then it shouldn't give you any problems 

[Temp]

+1 to a non-material amendment.

 

I just went ahead and added a Velux during construction.. Nobody has ever questioned it but its around the back.

 

If what you propose is definitely permitted development (and permitted development rights weren't removed as a condition) then its very unlikely the planners would take any enforcement action of their own accord. If they receive a complaint during construction they may feel obliged to ask you to amend your planning application. Its very unlikely they would refuse such a request because they know you could add the windows under Permitted Development later. The annoyance is the fee and that it may give them the opportunity of removing Permitted Development Rights.

 

If they receive a complaint after construction, again its unlikely they would take any action, but if they did you could file a retrospective Planning Application or possibly apply for a Certificate of Lawfulness on the grounds that its Permitted Development. I would ask the planners which they feel is needed.

 

Remember there are Building Regs rules on the height of escape windows if you plan a future loft conversion. Windows on some elevations (eg side) need to have frosted glass to comply with Permitted Development rules. 

Edited November 2, 2020 by Temp

[Ferdinand]

7 minutes ago, the_r_sole said:

You could do a non material amendment to your planning permission to do those works during the construction phase.

If it's something that falls into permitted development then it shouldn't give you any problems 

 

One line of argument which has been known to work is - "I can do this the day after completion under permitted development. Why make life unnecessarily difficult by not letting me do it when we build it?"

[MortarThePoint]

10 minutes ago, Ferdinand said:

 

One line of argument which has been known to work is - "I can do this the day after completion under permitted development. Why make life unnecessarily difficult by not letting me do it when we build it?"

 

It's inefficient, but I think I'll just wait for the dust to settle after completion.

[MortarThePoint]

15 minutes ago, Temp said:

Remember there are Building Regs rules on the height of escape windows if you plan a future loft conversion. Windows on some elevations (eg side) need to have frosted glass to comply with Permitted Development rules. 

 

We're not having any frosted windows as the nearest neighbour is about 100m away through trees, so if they ant to go to the effort of seeing me get out of the bath then their welcome.

[Temp]

I think the frosted glass is to stop you overlooking them ?

[joe90]

I would do it now and see if the planners notice, much more hassle retrofitting. After my fight with the planners we have not seen hide nor hair of them.

[Adsibob]

On 02/11/2020 at 09:09, Mr Punter said:

The consented scheme needs to be completed before PD rights can be exercised.

I agree that this is the legal position, but in practice it's illogical and silly. To give you an example, we have planning permission for a first floor extension. We would like to convert the loft at the same time as building the extension. Architect has said we need to build the consented scheme first, and only once that is finished can we build a loft under PD. But builder is saying that will be more expensive as he'll need to get specialist scaffolding and somehow protect the first floor roof (which has a lof of glass) from the works above if he can't build the loft first. He says it's just better common sense to go for a top down approach, and I agree with him. So it just seems like silly bureaucracy for the Council to say that building the loft under PD first would invalidate the consent in respect of the rest of the project. Does anybody know if it's likely enforcement action would be taken against us if we were to ignore this seemingly ridiculous rule? Can anybody draw on relevant experience?

[Mr Punter]

You don't have PD rights until the building is completed so if you carried the work out before it would not be PD.

 

The LA may ask you to apply for a Certificate of Lawfulness or full planning consent, although they would probably not know unless a neighbour objected.  There are different types of PD, so involving neighbour consultations and it is these that could be an issue.

 

If you sell the property and have not got full consent on what has been built, the other side may kick up a fuss.  If you have knowingly sold without planning consent and told the other side you have fully complied, you may be in breach of contract.

[Jilly]

On 02/11/2020 at 09:32, PeterW said:

Yes it is in the Town & Country Planning Act. A “building” only obtains permitted development rights when it is deemed to be completed to either the plans submitted and approved as part of the application, or it has been in

existance since prior to 1956 (from memory) and those PD rights have not been removed either by a blanket removal on the area or by a specific clause of approval. 

What if plans were scaled back and so not fully completed to the consented plans. Would this mean that the planning permission is lost for the future of the bit that was left out or can it be taken up later? 

[Mr Punter]

1 minute ago, Jilly said:

What if plans were scaled back and so not fully completed to the consented plans. Would this mean that the planning permission is lost for the future of the bit that was left out or can it be taken up later? 

 

No.  When you commence development, the planning consent is locked in.  PD rights come into play when the scheme is complete.

[PeterW]

As @Mr Punter said, once you start it’s locked in. I have a commercial build started in 2010, finished phase 1 in 2011 and it’s still pending funding for phase 2 but planning is still live.