NHBC vs architect certificate vs any other

[WWilts]

Self build, might need to sell in a few years. Specific choice re warranty or certificate.

A chartered surveyor friend (not a potential provider at all) advised us to get an NHBC registered builder & NHBC 10 y warranty.

Our architect said he can do a CML certificate instead for less money (£1k + VAT) and roughly the same practical effect. Inclined to use one of the architect's recommended builder as master contractor. Architect says they are good and not expensive.

What would you do and why?

[joe90]

Although I don’t plan to sell unless I have too I took out nothing, some experience of NHBC says it’s not worth the paper it’s written on plus you can take out indemnity insurance when you sell for less than the cost of a “ticket” (which is what I will do If I have to sell!).

[Oz07]

Cml cert make sure architect is riba and with ARB

[Mr Punter]

Yes, the CML cert is fine for most lenders.

 

Get a price from the suggested builder and if it is OK see if you can meet with some of their customers before you decide.

[Big Jimbo]

The only thing i would say is punters like the old 10 year nhbc . Will they like an archictect cert as much. Neither will be worth much but.....

[nod]

Nhbc won’t do a private warrantee

Though there are plenty that will

We took a Protec as we new we would sell within the ten years 

and most of the lenders have them in there top three 

Some of the lenders won’t accept an Architecht cert HSBC being one 

 

As Joe has already pointed out 

A warranty is not worth the paper it’s printed on 

Though if there’s another lockdown it may come in handy if the shops run out of toilet roll 

[Faz]

Warranty providers are the highway robbers of modern development imo!  On our last big scheme Premier Guarantee were the provider and their A rated contractor cocked the whole thing up and went bust half way through.  We sorted out the mess made of the 'completed' flats (50 or so) and built the rest to a decent standard - they decided to charge a premium increase os £190,000 - total joke.

 

We have used Build Zone since and, while they are a bit tardy getting the certification out at completion time, they have generally been ok. Interestingly, their self build warranty for mine cost less that the commercial policies for the other plots albeit that is with my company (which has a rating I suppose) doing the works.

 

I don't know if anyone has ever tried claiming against any of these people but I did have a claim for a client in the 1990's against the NHBC and it was a total nightmare - took years to sort.

 

A bunch of chancers tbh (like the entire financial services industry!).

[nod]

12 minutes ago, Faz said:

Warranty providers are the highway robbers of modern development imo!  On our last big scheme Premier Guarantee were the provider and their A rated contractor cocked the whole thing up and went bust half way through.  We sorted out the mess made of the 'completed' flats (50 or so) and built the rest to a decent standard - they decided to charge a premium increase os £190,000 - total joke.

 

We have used Build Zone since and, while they are a bit tardy getting the certification out at completion time, they have generally been ok. Interestingly, their self build warranty for mine cost less that the commercial policies for the other plots albeit that is with my company (which has a rating I suppose) doing the works.

 

I don't know if anyone has ever tried claiming against any of these people but I did have a claim for a client in the 1990's against the NHBC and it was a total nightmare - took years to sort.

 

A bunch of chancers tbh (like the entire financial services industry!).

Ours visited three time 

10 minutes to inspect the footings

From his car (No Wellies )

10 minutes to inspect the roof 

From the ground 

Told me I’d done a cracking job 

Final. inspection Came into the house Told me what certs area he needed Didn’t look around 

Didn’t go around the outside of the house 

His catch phrase was “Send me photos “

[Gus Potter]

Sad to see (but not unexpected) the lack of satisfaction here with warranty providers.

 

Historically the NHBC was set up to improve the housing stock in the UK and more recently other providers have come to the market as it has moved from more research and development to a more fiscal (insurance) set up / model.

 

The system in my view is more than ready for an overhaul. In other European countries a lot of folk don't buy from large developers as they do in the UK, their model is different as many folk "build their own"

 

Hopefully things will change, swing back to favour the self builder, small local builder while improving on the quality of the build.

[the_r_sole]

4 hours ago, WWilts said:

Self build, might need to sell in a few years. Specific choice re warranty or certificate.

A chartered surveyor friend (not a potential provider at all) advised us to get an NHBC registered builder & NHBC 10 y warranty.

Our architect said he can do a CML certificate instead for less money (£1k + VAT) and roughly the same practical effect. Inclined to use one of the architect's recommended builder as master contractor. Architect says they are good and not expensive.

What would you do and why?

 

£1k + VAT!!? It would seem they might not have assessed the liability properly...

[WWilts]

Many thanks all. Very enlightening. On that basis will go with the architect & CML cert.

[Faz]

32 minutes ago, nod said:

Ours visited three time 

10 minutes to inspect the footings

From his car (No Wellies )

10 minutes to inspect the roof 

From the ground 

Told me I’d done a cracking job 

Final. inspection Came into the house Told me what certs area he needed Didn’t look around 

Didn’t go around the outside of the house 

His catch phrase was “Send me photos “

We combine the Approved Inspector role with the warranty inspector's role so it is no so lightweight. Tbh - the BCO is a useful chap provided you are not trying to take the piss if you take the time to have a chat with them.

[nod]

1 hour ago, Faz said:

We combine the Approved Inspector role with the warranty inspector's role so it is no so lightweight. Tbh - the BCO is a useful chap provided you are not trying to take the piss if you take the time to have a chat with them.

I used Local Authority BC

Great value for money 

 

The warrantees rarely payout and would push the blame back onto the self builders 

Edited October 27, 2020 by nod

[SuperJohnG]

7 hours ago, joe90 said:

Although I don’t plan to sell unless I have too I took out nothing, some experience of NHBC says it’s not worth the paper it’s written on plus you can take out indemnity insurance when you sell for less than the cost of a “ticket” (which is what I will do If I have to sell!).

@joe90 I spent some time trying to validate this previously as it was the route I was planning to take but couldn't find anyone who would do a retrospective indemnity policy anywhere. Unless you know of any? 

 

 

[nod]

5 hours ago, SuperJohnG said:

@joe90 I spent some time trying to validate this previously as it was the route I was planning to take but couldn't find anyone who would do a retrospective indemnity policy anywhere. Unless you know of any? 

 

 A friend of ours finished his FOREVER HOME as we started ours So didn’t bother with a warrantee 

Six months on he found a better plot and decided to sell

He took out a retrospective policy from Protec which cost about £500 that ours 

Thats the route we will follow on our next build 

[WWilts]

from website:

Protek’s retrospective warranty is for house builders, property investors, receivers and individuals requiring a retrospective structural warranty insurance solution for a residential or mixed use property that was completed at some point in the last 10 years, but without the benefit of a 10 year warranty. The retrospective warranty provides comprehensive structural warranty insurance cover.

[WWilts]

10 hours ago, Faz said:

We combine the Approved Inspector role with the warranty inspector's role so it is no so lightweight. Tbh - the BCO is a useful chap provided you are not trying to take the piss if you take the time to have a chat with them.

 

"We" as in self builders or providers of services? Pardon ignorance

[joe90]

I still don’t see why Building Control can’t issue a certificate of some sort, they are the ones that inspect the build at various stages to make sure it meets regs and is done correctly, surely they could make some money doing this?.

[Mr Punter]

16 minutes ago, joe90 said:

I still don’t see why Building Control can’t issue a certificate of some sort, they are the ones that inspect the build at various stages to make sure it meets regs and is done correctly, surely they could make some money doing this?.

 

There is a LABC warranty scheme.  Still expensive.

[Faz]

The LABC scheme is now run by (and possible owned?) Premier Guarantee.  They are a disaster and well worth avoiding imo.  Used them on an 88 apartment scheme and the experience was horrible - the only upside was the inspector they used who was very helpful - mind you, he had been given oversight of all of the Persimmon schemes in the patch due to the number of claims arising so he had his hands full!

[SuperJohnG]

13 hours ago, nod said:

18 hours ago, SuperJohnG said:

@joe90 I spent some time trying to validate this previously as it was the route I was planning to take but couldn't find anyone who would do a retrospective indemnity policy anywhere. Unless you know of any? 

 

 A friend of ours finished his FOREVER HOME as we started ours So didn’t bother with a warrantee 

Six months on he found a better plot and decided to sell

He took out a retrospective policy from Protec which cost about £500 that ours 

Thats the route we will follow on our next build 

I actually posed this question to protek a few weeks back. I was told that it would cost more money to do this than compared to the standard structural warranty. 

[nod]

2 hours ago, SuperJohnG said:

I actually posed this question to protek a few weeks back. I was told that it would cost more money to do this than compared to the standard structural warranty. 

As I said my friend paid 3500

As apposed to the 2900 we paid 

The problem we found was that while others where cheaper they didn’t appear on many of the lenders lists 

Protec and Buildzone where the top ones But the most expensive 

[SuperJohnG]

1 hour ago, nod said:

As I said my friend paid 3500

As apposed to the 2900 we paid 

The problem we found was that while others where cheaper they didn’t appear on many of the lenders lists 

Protec and Buildzone where the top ones But the most expensive 

I think your original message was missing a few words, hence i was thinking he got it for 500 quid...?

[Oz07]

I've never paid any more than 3 figures for my certs. I do have a good architect though. The bill is normally split into thirds. Planning, build regs, sign off. 

[nod]

6 hours ago, SuperJohnG said:

I think your original message was missing a few words, hence i was thinking he got it for 500 quid...?

No my friend paid 500 on top of what we paid for a retrospective warranty 

If the total fee had of been £500 It still wouldn’t be worth the money