willbish Posted October 18, 2020 Share Posted October 18, 2020 Not that much to read on the forum regarding metal stud walling and the different configurations. Ive got 26 running metres of partition walling to put up, most at 2.4m high Having had a good gander at the 'White Book' Im drawn to a couple of options Either I studs staggered with 1 sheet of soundbloc each side, 50mm acoustic roll. 102mm depth overall Shown here, pic 1: Or C studs with double sheets of standard board, 50mm acoustic roll. 100mm deep. Closely pictured as number 2: I haven't yet done any cost comparison with timber yet, any good suppliers to approach? I'll give my local builders merchants a buzz tomorrow but I'm not confident they'll be at all competitive or even know what Im on about.. @Dreadnaught was going down this route, how far did you get? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterW Posted October 18, 2020 Share Posted October 18, 2020 @nod is your man to ask about this stuff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dreadnaught Posted October 18, 2020 Share Posted October 18, 2020 (edited) @willbish, my timber frame is not up yet, so not porgressed the stud walling at all yet, but still convinced of my decision to use metal framing. As you probably know, @nod is our resident expert. Edited October 18, 2020 by Dreadnaught Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonshine Posted October 18, 2020 Share Posted October 18, 2020 Go staggered if you can, a 3 dB increase in sound insulation isn't to be sniffed at. Typically a metal frame wall will acoustically out perform a timber stud of a similar build up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oz07 Posted October 18, 2020 Share Posted October 18, 2020 Always feel more rattley to me when built to equivilant timber sections. You can also stagger a timber stud with 4x2 sole and top plate 3x2 studs. Also the amount of patrices or ply metal stud work Seems to need and lack of flexibility to nog out puts me off. It does have it's advantages too just have to compare your key criteria Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nod Posted October 18, 2020 Share Posted October 18, 2020 Metal stud out performs timber Straighter Wont shrink Acoustically out performs timber Three time quicker to install Can be built 9 mtre high and remain plumb I stud is much stronger than timber You can nog out But most just use flat plate Each year we do groups of between 150 -200 roomed student accommodation Nearly always TF due to time restraints The partitioning would be easy for Tge TF guys to do as they go along But due to sound fire We follow them through with the framing Wiring and plumbing is also much easier with MF Pretty much like Possi v Solid timber joists 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willbish Posted October 18, 2020 Author Share Posted October 18, 2020 Nice one thanks @nod Do you notice any difference in rigidity with say staggered I studs at 300 centres compared to C studs not staggered at 600. Neither are fixed top at bottom so I'm guessing no/not a lot of difference Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nod Posted October 18, 2020 Share Posted October 18, 2020 4 minutes ago, willbish said: Nice one thanks @nod Do you notice any difference in rigidity with say staggered I studs at 300 centres compared to C studs not staggered at 600. Neither are fixed top at bottom so I'm guessing no/not a lot of difference Any stud set at 300 will be more rigid than 600 It’s quite rare to set mf studs at 3 or 400 Usually I stud that is load baring We often build 5 mtr high walls and the strength comes from double staggered boarding I set our at 600 and used a 15 mil SB single layer Very solid at only 2.6 high Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottishjohn Posted October 19, 2020 Share Posted October 19, 2020 I used the 150mm steel studs to partion my building at front with staggered19mm plank then fireproof Pb -- solid as a rock once you get the PB attached to it and very sound proof -by the time you have the fire curtain hung in the middle back of building was a 9"soild killer block wall to 8ft ,with butresses then same 150mm stud to go to the roof If it was not a car workshop --might have been tempted to do it all in steel studding but also was getting a bit high in the center bought the fancy tool to join them together --not impressed with that --would us wood nogins if doing it again would def consider using it in a house --when did you last see a straight bit of CLS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willbish Posted January 5, 2021 Author Share Posted January 5, 2021 I've been on a metal stud learning curve the last week. So far so good, only the single one inch laceration to my finger to mention. But it sure flies up quick once you get used to it I chose a mixture of wall make up. Between bedrooms and corridors I've used 72mm track with 60mm I studs staggered. For cupboard, wardrobes and areas where sound transmission is not so critical I went for 52mm track with 50mm C studs. 9mm ply then PB The British Gypsum white book is really useful for selecting the components, then when purchasing switched to Tradeline brand as significantly cheaper. Chatting with a plasterer today and he's saying I really should be using noggins, even though White book says not necessary. I mentioned that Im using 15mm soundbloc board and he said even more reason to nog, anyone know why this might be? So that got me thinking about chucking some in there just to be sure. But with the staggered studs this is not going to be possible. On 18/10/2020 at 20:13, nod said: You can nog out But most just use flat plate Is the flat plate really going to make much difference? I cant see how thin plate (0.3mm thick i think) is going to make any difference. All my boards are vertical, just under 2.4m ceilings, perhaps that makes a difference. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willbish Posted January 5, 2021 Author Share Posted January 5, 2021 A couple of pictures 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nod Posted January 5, 2021 Share Posted January 5, 2021 No Nogs needed Tell him to stick to plastering ? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willbish Posted January 5, 2021 Author Share Posted January 5, 2021 1 minute ago, nod said: No Nogs needed Tell him to stick to plastering ? ? Consider it done Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dreadnaught Posted January 5, 2021 Share Posted January 5, 2021 @willbish, beginner question. In your (splendid) photos, all the walls seem to run at 90º to your joists above. What what if a wall ran in-line with the joists but there wasn't a joist directly above, just a void? In your photos, is it only the second photo that has staggered studs? Are those 300 centres? These seems to be some sort of spacer at the bottom or am I just seeing things? Really great to read about your experience. Thinking of using metal studs in my build. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nod Posted January 5, 2021 Share Posted January 5, 2021 If the stud lands inside a joist We normally Use a piece of shallow track (Floor Track) Cut 50 mil in at either end the flattened Turn it upside down Set them at 600 and they will also carry your ceiling 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willbish Posted January 5, 2021 Author Share Posted January 5, 2021 That would be a neat and quick solution @nod has just proposed. In my amateur way I would have cut timber noggins in between the ceiling joists. 28 minutes ago, Dreadnaught said: is it only the second photo that has staggered studs? Are those 300 centres? These seems to be some sort of spacer at the bottom or am I just seeing things? Yes, yes and yes. Spacer clip SC1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nod Posted January 5, 2021 Share Posted January 5, 2021 You will also find it easier if you use deep track on tops Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gus Potter Posted January 5, 2021 Share Posted January 5, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, willbish said: I've been on a metal stud learning curve the last week. So far so good, only the single one inch laceration to my finger to mention. But it sure flies up quick once you get used to it I chose a mixture of wall make up. Between bedrooms and corridors I've used 72mm track with 60mm I studs staggered. For cupboard, wardrobes and areas where sound transmission is not so critical I went for 52mm track with 50mm C studs. 9mm ply then PB The British Gypsum white book is really useful for selecting the components, then when purchasing switched to Tradeline brand as significantly cheaper. Chatting with a plasterer today and he's saying I really should be using noggins, even though White book says not necessary. I mentioned that Im using 15mm soundbloc board and he said even more reason to nog, anyone know why this might be? So that got me thinking about chucking some in there just to be sure. But with the staggered studs this is not going to be possible. Is the flat plate really going to make much difference? I cant see how thin plate (0.3mm thick i think) is going to make any difference. All my boards are vertical, just under 2.4m ceilings, perhaps that makes a difference. Thanks to all for contributing to this post, every day is a school day, much appreciated by me! Nod and many others are making great practical points so thanks. A bit off topic. The flat plate I think comes in handy when your boards go over the standard 2.4 m as the flat plate acts a bit like a noggin (dwang) and supports the horizontal plaster board joint so you don't get a crack in the finish. Again turning back to Nod. Similar cold formed sections can be used to create load bearing walls too and here the noggings etc often start to play a structural role. I don't know if anyone has posted on BH about a fully cold steel formed structure ( external frame + internal racking / load bearing walls) but I'll hazzard a guess that Nod and others have worked on them. Once walls become load bearing then the flat plate can start to form part of the fire protection. The white book as you can see above and the "site book", see internet, provide some great info and the real practical tips you will get from the likes of Nod etc. Edited January 5, 2021 by Gus Potter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Punter Posted January 5, 2021 Share Posted January 5, 2021 The people that do the metal on commercial projects can do shed loads in a day. We had a guy on site was not the brightest and not suited for what we were doing but his boss regularly paid him £500 a day on price for doing metal frame ceilings and walls elsewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nod Posted January 6, 2021 Share Posted January 6, 2021 6 hours ago, Mr Punter said: The people that do the metal on commercial projects can do shed loads in a day. We had a guy on site was not the brightest and not suited for what we were doing but his boss regularly paid him £500 a day on price for doing metal frame ceilings and walls elsewhere. Yes quite common for a pair to do 300 m2 per day at £3.50m2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willbish Posted January 6, 2021 Author Share Posted January 6, 2021 Hi @nod any tricks on how I can avoid this happening? It doesn't look pretty but maybe I shouldn't be worried and just carry on. Using self tap dry wall screws. Screwing out and back in again doesn't help. Niether does a pilot hole. VID_20210106_151039~2.mp4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willbish Posted January 6, 2021 Author Share Posted January 6, 2021 I should say the wall feels bomber solid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nod Posted January 6, 2021 Share Posted January 6, 2021 Yes your better using an impact driver when you attach ply Fine thread screw nice and slow in singles 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Laslett Posted March 30, 2022 Share Posted March 30, 2022 I didn’t want to start a new thread. I have a few questions before I start my metal framing, @nod, @Dreadnaught any help would be appreciated. 1. My ceiling height is 2750mm, can I just add a piece of 2”x4” underneath the U-Track so that I can use 2700mm C-studs? Or do I need to use 3000mm C-studs and cut them to length? Any other methods to bridge the 50mm height gap? The longer studs don’t cost much more, but it just seems like a lot of waste and extra work. 2. For the MVHR 90mm ducts can I make two cuts and bend down the sides of the deep U-track on the ceiling to allow the ducts to more easily pass into the next room? Or will this effect the U-track’s integrity? I could use the standard U-track on the ceiling, but I like the higher gauge that the deep track has. Do I just leave a gap in the U track and use two pieces? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Electrified Posted March 30, 2022 Share Posted March 30, 2022 I was wondering exactly the same regarding packing out when I stumbled across this thread… i’m also looking at running radial MVHR ducting within the wall. However I was planning on using Flat channel ducting which is about 50mm deep so should fit in the 70mm void with no issues. Then having a flat to round adapter in the loft above and under the floor below to switch back to round ducting. Maybe something to consider although I’m not too sure if it’s okay to use this type of ducting for radial 🙃 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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