Appleco Posted January 10, 2017 Share Posted January 10, 2017 We have to vacate our long term rental home in 2 months. The plan had always been to move to a static caravan on site but there's no way we are now going to have the required services installed in time. We are having to consider moving to a cheap rental flat at least for a few months and wondering if there is really any financial benefit to then buying and moving to a caravan. Anyone know if you have to pay council tax for a static? Any advice about the benefits one way or the other would be greatly appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe90 Posted January 10, 2017 Share Posted January 10, 2017 If it's your only home then yes and I think it's band a, I have a caravan on my site but I am not always there as building has only just started and my wife still works where we currently live. The local taxation officer did ask me about it and I simply stated it was a site office for the builders ( that I may "camp in" occasionally) but I was able to prove paying council tax on our other house so they let it go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Appleco Posted January 10, 2017 Author Share Posted January 10, 2017 10 minutes ago, joe90 said: If it's your only home then yes and I think it's band a, I have a caravan on my site but I am not always there as building has only just started and my wife still works where we currently live. The local taxation officer did ask me about it and I simply stated it was a site office for the builders ( that I may "camp in" occasionally) but I was able to prove paying council tax on our other house so they let it go. Many thanks Joe. I thought that might be the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oranjeboom Posted January 10, 2017 Share Posted January 10, 2017 local council here insisted I pay tax on renovation house even though we were not living in that (though we were down in the back of the garden in our static). Actually we are still in the static now....3yrs on. Financially it has saved us close to 60k from not having to rent. Healthwise, family-wise and sanity-wise it's probably not the best decision we made, but it should be our last winter in this thing now! You may also need to consult with your council whether you need to obtain there permission on a static too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProDave Posted January 10, 2017 Share Posted January 10, 2017 My 'van has been on my plot 2 years now. I have not yet paid anything as I am not living in it. That does not stop the council tax valuer coming around for a nose every 3 months, sometimes I catch him having a look in the windows. It's a fact that they can only charge council tax on it, if it is habitable and that must include water, and drainage. I have deliberately not yet connected the electricity supply so my treatment plant so that if pushed, I can justifiable argue the treatment plant is not yet operational, therefore the 'van is not habitable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe90 Posted January 10, 2017 Share Posted January 10, 2017 I think Jeremy delayed the commissioning of his treatment plant on purpose so his council could not charge council tax. ( I know it was working because I used his loo ?) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Appleco Posted January 10, 2017 Author Share Posted January 10, 2017 1 hour ago, oranjeboom said: local council here insisted I pay tax on renovation house even though we were not living in that (though we were down in the back of the garden in our static). Actually we are still in the static now....3yrs on. Financially it has saved us close to 60k from not having to rent. Healthwise, family-wise and sanity-wise it's probably not the best decision we made, but it should be our last winter in this thing now! You may also need to consult with your council whether you need to obtain there permission on a static too. I don't relish the thought of wintering in a caravan but our budget is so tight that if it saves some cash I fear we will have to. We have permission for a caravan on site but due to an error by our architect we didn't realise until it was too late that this was only for use as a site office - might just chance it though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Appleco Posted January 10, 2017 Author Share Posted January 10, 2017 46 minutes ago, ProDave said: My 'van has been on my plot 2 years now. I have not yet paid anything as I am not living in it. That does not stop the council tax valuer coming around for a nose every 3 months, sometimes I catch him having a look in the windows. It's a fact that they can only charge council tax on it, if it is habitable and that must include water, and drainage. I have deliberately not yet connected the electricity supply so my treatment plant so that if pushed, I can justifiable argue the treatment plant is not yet operational, therefore the 'van is not habitable. Smart move. I would have to live in mine though so don't fancy doing that without the electricity. I had no idea they sent people round to snoop around caravans! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe90 Posted January 10, 2017 Share Posted January 10, 2017 (edited) Well I have electricity, bottled gas and it's connected up to the old cess pit ( which will be replaced by the new treatment plant installed for the new house). There have been discussions here and elsewhere about caravans on site and needing planning permissions. I maintain ( through looking on the web) that you do not need planning permission for a caravan on site " as long as it's not a separate dwelling in its own right." We are thinking of keeping our caravan to rent out to surfers in the summer after the build and I will not connect up the toilet ( that the council will be able to see) so the caravan is dependant on the house in theory. anyway, it's a gamble, it might depend on nosey neighbours dropping you in it or a council that is on the ball. Edited January 10, 2017 by Crofter Changed 'chess pit' to 'cess pit' 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oranjeboom Posted January 10, 2017 Share Posted January 10, 2017 Try to site the van in an optimal position (away from public view, out of the wind, close to sewer line....). I did at one point have camoflauge netting covering one side too, but the hedging makes it almost impossible to see. Just waiting on the next round on Landsat imagery to appear on Google/Bing maps now! Try and get a decent van too - one with double glazing, central heating etc. I also fitted ours with a log fire. But it's still not great - space is the main issue with 2kids and 2 adults! If the wife doesn't set light to it, then I will have a decent mancave at some point. Good luck! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Temp Posted January 10, 2017 Share Posted January 10, 2017 I maintain ( through looking on the web) that you do not need planning permission for a caravan on site " as long as it's not a separate dwelling in its own right." I think that's ok if renovating an existing house that has Permitted Development Rights (PDR) but I don't think new builds get PDR until they are completed ? Mobile homes don't need PP if they are used as accommodation for site workers (but clearly a child can't be a building site worker). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProDave Posted January 10, 2017 Share Posted January 10, 2017 Up here it's normal to apply for (and usually get) temporary planning permission for a static during the build process. they then usually insert the clase that the 'van be removed upon completion of the house. But I want to keep ours as a workroom and studio. I chose it's location as one that would fit withing permitted development rights if it was sited there after the house was completed. I then pointed out that on the day of completion, I could remove the 'van and immediately replace it with an identical one and in an identical position under permitted development. They changed my planning condition to "habitational use of the caravan will cease within 2 months of completion of the house" so my 'van gets to stay legally as a studio and work space. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stones Posted January 10, 2017 Share Posted January 10, 2017 4 hours ago, Appleco said: We have to vacate our long term rental home in 2 months. The plan had always been to move to a static caravan on site but there's no way we are now going to have the required services installed in time. We are having to consider moving to a cheap rental flat at least for a few months and wondering if there is really any financial benefit to then buying and moving to a caravan. Anyone know if you have to pay council tax for a static? Any advice about the benefits one way or the other would be greatly appreciated. One question you really do have to ask yourself is do you want to put yourself through the discomfort of a few months / a year or more in a caravan? I know a couple up here who have been in a touring caravan over a year, with NO hot water! Much as the financial savings are helpful (if you get a reasonable van and work on the basis you can sell again afterwards for pretty much what you paid for it) you have to weigh this carefully against being comfortable. Will a few months in a caravan really generate sufficient savings to make the hassle worthwhile? I like my home comforts and am past the point (young and in love ) when I would want to live in a caravan. With two kids, it strikes me as a recipe for frequent crossed words, and hair loss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Appleco Posted January 10, 2017 Author Share Posted January 10, 2017 1 hour ago, Temp said: I think that's ok if renovating an existing house that has Permitted Development Rights (PDR) but I don't think new builds get PDR until they are completed ? Mobile homes don't need PP if they are used as accommodation for site workers (but clearly a child can't be a building site worker). As project manager for the build then I guess I could call myself a site worker then? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Appleco Posted January 10, 2017 Author Share Posted January 10, 2017 42 minutes ago, Stones said: One question you really do have to ask yourself is do you want to put yourself through the discomfort of a few months / a year or more in a caravan? I know a couple up here who have been in a touring caravan over a year, with NO hot water! Much as the financial savings are helpful (if you get a reasonable van and work on the basis you can sell again afterwards for pretty much what you paid for it) you have to weigh this carefully against being comfortable. Will a few months in a caravan really generate sufficient savings to make the hassle worthwhile? I like my home comforts and am past the point (young and in love ) when I would want to live in a caravan. With two kids, it strikes me as a recipe for frequent crossed words, and hair loss. I too like my home comforts and it is the one part of the whole build process that I am dreading. We are in the fortunate position of not having to do it with kids though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe90 Posted January 10, 2017 Share Posted January 10, 2017 It's not to be underestimated how challenging living in a cold damp caravan is, I am an ex mountaineer so used to cold spaces and minimum comfort. I am planning to start being on site most of the time in about a months time and because ours is already on site with no double glazing etc I gave invested in a few electric panel heaters, I know the electricity will cost but it will be cheaper than any other option. Let's pray for a warm spring 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Appleco Posted January 10, 2017 Author Share Posted January 10, 2017 Anyone fitted a wood burning stove in their caravan? Is it an easy job? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crofter Posted January 10, 2017 Share Posted January 10, 2017 13 minutes ago, Appleco said: Anyone fitted a wood burning stove in their caravan? Is it an easy job? Not done this myself but have extensively researched fitting a stove to my boat, and have seen several installations in both boats and caravans (although I ended up going for a diesel drip feed heater instead). You will need a *very* small stove- 4kW maximum probably. Normal considerations about distance to combustibles will apply, but due to space restrictions you will probably need to install heat shielding- this can be simply a plate of thin metal with an airspace behind it, which you use to protect the wall behind the stove and flue. At the roof, a 'dektite' silicone flashing will keep the rain out. Don't skimp on the length of the flue, most stoves want 4m+ so a lot of this is going to be above the caravan roof. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Appleco Posted January 10, 2017 Author Share Posted January 10, 2017 8 minutes ago, Crofter said: Not done this myself but have extensively researched fitting a stove to my boat, and have seen several installations in both boats and caravans (although I ended up going for a diesel drip feed heater instead). You will need a *very* small stove- 4kW maximum probably. Normal considerations about distance to combustibles will apply, but due to space restrictions you will probably need to install heat shielding- this can be simply a plate of thin metal with an airspace behind it, which you use to protect the wall behind the stove and flue. At the roof, a 'dektite' silicone flashing will keep the rain out. Don't skimp on the length of the flue, most stoves want 4m+ so a lot of this is going to be above the caravan roof. Many thanks Crofter. Doesn't sound too bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iSelfBuild Posted January 10, 2017 Share Posted January 10, 2017 3 minutes ago, Appleco said: Many thanks Crofter. Doesn't sound too bad. Best decision ever! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crofter Posted January 10, 2017 Share Posted January 10, 2017 Good installation! What type/size of stove is that? Looks dinky Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe90 Posted January 10, 2017 Share Posted January 10, 2017 I toyed with the idea but my timescales are so short to not make it worth it for me, however for a longer timescale ( and wood from site usually available) I would do it . 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProDave Posted January 10, 2017 Share Posted January 10, 2017 A stove will only heat one room. You will still need electric heaters in the bedrooms. We did 18 months in the 'van last build. the onset of the second winter had s moving into the house WAY before it was ready to move into, but it was a LOT more comfortable. We took the view that it needed a lot of heat to keep it dry and sod the expense, and that seemed to work okay. Keeping clothes in the wardrobe in winter was hopeless, they were kept in the house (under construction) with only the clothes you were wearing in the 'van. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bitpipe Posted January 11, 2017 Share Posted January 11, 2017 As a recent 18 month caravan dweller, let me share some of our experiences. Our 38x12ft van had a surprising amount of storage, lots of nooks and crannies but it's still tight and you need to keep tidy otherwise you're tip toeing through piles of junk. We were in there with our two kids (9 and 11 at that time) and the cat. I removed the twin beds in the kids room and replaced with caravan bunks to allow more space for furniture. You do need to pay council tax but only when the van is habitable - we notified the council of the demolition of the existing house in order to stop paying CT on that and they put us on the A rate for the van. Now we're in the new house, the local assessor popped in and we've been put on full tax for the house (backdated to our move in date) but 50% for the van (unoccupied rate) which we're going to challenge as we killed the power and water to the van when we moved out. Van was situated behind the old house so was private until it got demolished and then felt quite exposed! We used privacy netting on the Heras fencing which helped, although it made it more liable to blow over in the wind. Once the new frame went up we got our privacy back. We had a top tip to make the van comfortable in winter - a dehumidifier. As vans are inherently well ventilated (they have holes in the floor and walls covered in mesh) they can also get a bit damp in winter, especially if you're using LPG for heat and cooking as this generates a lot of moisture which then condenses out on the floor making it feel cold underfoot. We bought a cheap dehumidifier the first November and it made a massive difference, not only did it solve the cold floor issue, it also kicks out a reasonable amount of heat to keep the van warm. Once we got that we never used the LPG fire again - it was running pretty much 24/7 so ran up the electricity bill a bit but worth it for the comfort. We had an electric oil heater in our bedroom to take the chill off that and also an electric blanket - all worked fine. I found the van most uncomfortable in summer - as the long side sat east /west it got a lot of solar gain in the morning and got quite stuffy. Make sure you have a co2 alarm outside the hot water heater, for peace of mind if nothing else. We also terminated our phone line to a site office (converted container) and squirted it over to the van using powerline plugs. Friends who did similar built a deck around the van for additional space, we didn't bother with that due to cost but did build a raised walkway on pallets to give us a mud free way in and out. Laundry facilities are the main challenge - we put the washing machine and tumble in a greenhouse that had a water supply and ran an extension when we needed to use. As soon as the house was weather tight and had basic power, we moved them into the basement. Living in the SE, it saved us a fortune in rental and it's very useful to live on site - makes the build go much more smoothly. Can't say it was always fun but we managed, as you do. Now looking to sell the van and hopefully recoup what I paid for it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Appleco Posted January 11, 2017 Author Share Posted January 11, 2017 10 hours ago, ProDave said: A stove will only heat one room. You will still need electric heaters in the bedrooms. We did 18 months in the 'van last build. the onset of the second winter had s moving into the house WAY before it was ready to move into, but it was a LOT more comfortable. We took the view that it needed a lot of heat to keep it dry and sod the expense, and that seemed to work okay. Keeping clothes in the wardrobe in winter was hopeless, they were kept in the house (under construction) with only the clothes you were wearing in the 'van. This sounds truly grim. Did your van have double glazing or are they all cold and damp? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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