Neighbour objection on neighbourhood consultation scheme leading to refusal

[Paris22]

I would really appreciate some help as I feel that we’ve reached a dead end and we don’t know how to move forward. 
 

We submitted a planning application to our council twice for a 6 metre depth x 3 metre high rear extension and was refused twice due to an objection from a neighbour. Our two adjoining neighbours on either side of us, who would be most affected have both supported our extension. We learned today that a neighbour who’s garden backs onto ours who is not affected in any way has objected. Only because the planning officer told us that he cannot tell us but that we should speak to our neighbours to see if there are any issue. So my husband knocked on the neighbours door and He told my husband that he objects due to a grudge 10 years ago when he erected a 3.7 metre high summer house on our boundary (his house backs onto ours)  that we objected to. He did this without obtaining the councils approval and as all the neighbours collectively objected he was forced to make changes to appease everyone. We only became aware when it started going up. 
He told my husband that this was payback and it’s just the way the cookie crumbles. We spoke to our planning officer that said if a neighbour objects then they have to refuse the application on that basis and that’s the law. 
I have no idea what to do next. This man has had a loft conversion, an 8 metre extension and a side extension that we never raised any objection to as does not affect us at all. He has a 150 foot garden and decided to put the summer house on our back fence.
We also have a 100 foot garden so our extension will no way be in his view or affect him in any way. 
my husband asks him to kindly reconsider but he said tough that’s how it goes, we should learn our lesson. Our elderly neighbour was very shaken up about his “summerhouse” and she sadly passed away 5 months later. 
Where can I go with this? Is it just tough? Or can I do something about it? 
Any advice will be greatly appreciated. 
Thank you 

[the_r_sole]

submit a planning application for the extension, if the objections aren't valid planning objections the planning officers won't take them on board - but that should also be the case on the prior notification scheme...?

what is the nature of the objection?

[Paris22]

Thanks for your reply. 
formally it’s extension not in keeping with area.

garden will become smaller and may cause privacy issues

extension too big and not in keeping with the area (he has a 8 metre rear extension) 

 

but informally he told my husband yes doesn’t affect us but  it’s payback and that’s the way the cookie crumbles. He said all the neighbours must learn their lesson. 

 

[Paris22]

We had a long conversation with the planning officer who said it’s unfair but on neighbour consultation an objection is enough. 

[joth]

  On 08/09/2020 at 15:41, Paris22 said:

Where can I go with this? Is it just tough? Or can I do something about it? 

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Ask the neighbour what their price is to remove the objection. Most people will  have a £ price that will change their mind.

 

[Paris22]

Are you serious? ? my husband asked him to try and be a kind neighbour. Why are people so spiteful and go about things in a very inconsiderate way? I’m convinced he stressed my neighbour to death. 

[Bitpipe]

  On 08/09/2020 at 16:00, Paris22 said:

We had a long conversation with the planning officer who said it’s unfair but on neighbour consultation an objection is enough. 

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I don't buy that - every neighbour on our street, including one who is a conveyancing solicitor and quite knowledgeable, objected.

 

LA rebutted all of their concerns and raised their own reasons for rejection, which we were able to address.

 

Is this a full planning application or is this permitted development?

[Onoff]

  On 08/09/2020 at 15:41, Paris22 said:

He has a 150 foot garden and decided to put the summer house on our back fence.

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If within 2m of the boundary I think it needs to be less than 2.5m in height?

 

Check and if it's more (higher) suggest you'll make him apply for retrospective planning permission! ?

[Paris22]

  On 08/09/2020 at 16:12, Bitpipe said:

 

I don't buy that - every neighbour on our street, including one who is a conveyancing solicitor and quite knowledgeable, objected.

 

LA rebutted all of their concerns and raised their own reasons for rejection, which we were able to address.

 

Is this a full planning application or is this permitted development?

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This is a neighbour consultation scheme application. This is what the officer told us, he even said if you resubmit it and we get no objections it will go through fine. The guy who objected told my husband that he’s done his research and knows that without an objection he knows we’ll never get it. 

[Paris22]

  On 08/09/2020 at 16:14, Onoff said:

 

If within 2m of the boundary I think it needs to be less than 2.5m in height?

 

Check and if it's more (higher) suggest you'll make him apply for retrospective planning permission! ?

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You are allowed up to 3.9. What is retrospective planning permission? 

[Bitpipe]

  On 08/09/2020 at 16:19, Paris22 said:

This is a neighbour consultation scheme application. This is what the officer told us, he even said if you resubmit it and we get no objections it will go through fine. The guy who objected told my husband that he’s done his research and knows that without an objection he knows we’ll never get it. 

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You'll need to bite the bullet and go for full PP then (unless PD is an option) and unless grounded in planning policy, neighbour objections are politely ignored.

[Onoff]

  On 08/09/2020 at 16:19, Paris22 said:

This is a neighbour consultation scheme application. This is what the officer told us, he even said if you resubmit it and we get no objections it will go through fine. The guy who objected told my husband that he’s done his research and knows that without an objection he knows we’ll never get it. 

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Go and have another conversation with the twat and record it. Post all over FB if he wants to play dirty and vindictive.

[Bitpipe]

  On 08/09/2020 at 16:21, Onoff said:

 

Go and have another conversation with the twat and record it. Post all over FB if he wants to play dirty and vindictive.

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I disagree - revenge best served cold. Go get formal planning permission and build what you are legally entitled to.

[Onoff]

  On 08/09/2020 at 16:20, Paris22 said:

You are allowed up to 3.9. What is retrospective planning permission? 

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3.9m?

 

Link to random site but pretty sure it's correct:

 

https://www.planningportal.co.uk/info/200130/common_projects/43/outbuildings

 

Retrospective pp is when you build something you didn't have permission for, somebody grasses you up and you have to apply properly and hope the council don't make you bulldoze it! ?

Edited September 8, 2020 by Onoff

[Paris22]

  On 08/09/2020 at 16:22, Bitpipe said:

 

I disagree - revenge best served cold. Go get formal planning permission and build what you are legally entitled to.

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My husband said they were very stern mean individuals. I’m not sure they’ll change their mind. They’ve lived behind me for 11 years and I’ve never even met them. 

[Onoff]

  On 08/09/2020 at 16:22, Bitpipe said:

 

I disagree - revenge best served cold. Go get formal planning permission and build what you are legally entitled to.

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I'm turning into Victor Meldrew in my old age.

[Paris22]

  On 08/09/2020 at 16:32, Onoff said:

 

3.9m?

 

Link to random site but pretty sure it's correct:

 

https://www.planningportal.co.uk/info/200130/common_projects/43/outbuildings

 

Retrospective pp is when you build something you didn't have permission for, somebody grasses you up and you have to apply properly and hope the council don't make you bulldoze it! ?

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Basically what happened to him then? ? yes it’s a larger extension scheme, maybe 3.7 sorry 

[Onoff]

  On 08/09/2020 at 16:35, Paris22 said:

Basically what happened to him then? ? yes it’s a larger extension scheme, maybe 3.7 sorry 

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There's rules for outbuilding sizes. Worth reading up and seeing if hes flouted any. Suggest they might like to go through the process again...

 

 

[Paris22]

  On 08/09/2020 at 16:39, Onoff said:

 

There's rules for outbuilding sizes. Worth reading up and seeing if hes flouted any. Suggest they might like to go through the process again...

 

 

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After he messed up council got involved and he had to move it, repaint it. Plant trees at the boundary and all sorts. It was 10 years ago now. Now you see why he hates all the neighbours, as everyone was offended by it. They are just rude people. Their kids used to swear at my toddlers through a hole in the fence. Just so you can get an idea. 

[ProDave]

What planning reason did they give for refusal?  If there is no valid planning policy reason, and they refuse, then take it to appeal.  Have you actually applied twice and been refused?

 

It sounds like it is very close to permitted development limits anyway so could you scale it down very slightly and do it under permitted development?

[pdf27]

  On 08/09/2020 at 16:00, Paris22 said:

We had a long conversation with the planning officer who said it’s unfair but on neighbour consultation an objection is enough. 

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This scheme? https://ecab.planningportal.co.uk/uploads/1app/guidance/guidance_note-larger_home_extension.pdf

 

 

An adjoining neighbour has objected, so you need prior approval. Fair enough.

However, that only means the planners need to determine that the effect on adjacent properties is not "acceptable" to refuse you. What reasons did they give for this?

[Paris22]

  On 08/09/2020 at 16:53, ProDave said:

What planning reason did they give for refusal?  If there is no valid planning policy reason, and they refuse, then take it to appeal.  Have you actually applied twice and been refused?

 

It sounds like it is very close to permitted development limits anyway so could you scale it down very slightly and do it under permitted development?

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Yes we have applied twice. The reasons are extension too big (he has an 8 metre extension) likely to make our garden smaller and may create privacy issues. Not in keeping with the area. Yes we could but we were saving our permittee development for our loft conversion. 

[Paris22]

  On 08/09/2020 at 16:56, pdf27 said:

This scheme? https://ecab.planningportal.co.uk/uploads/1app/guidance/guidance_note-larger_home_extension.pdf

 

 

An adjoining neighbour has objected, so you need prior approval. Fair enough.

However, that only means the planners need to determine that the effect on adjacent properties is not "acceptable" to refuse you. What reasons did they give for this?

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None they said they don’t need to, that an objection is enough. Sadly I’m not a planning lawyer so really don’t know. 

[Ferdinand]

I would say you have 3 options to get this done.

 

1 - Reduce it to the size that is permitted Development.

2 - Persuade the neighbour.

3 - Go for full PP then if necessary Appeal if you think there are no relevant planning objections (I don't think there are based on what you have said)

 

I would not worry about 2 and go for one of the others.

 

As an aside you could take the Council through the complaints process (will take a lot of work and time and not get it built), or make them obey the law and do an evaluation of amenity before making a decision (talk to your local Councillor about them not following the process?). It may help to FOI for the evaluation using the bit of policy or law that requires it first. 

 

F

Edited September 8, 2020 by Ferdinand

[Paris22]

  On 08/09/2020 at 17:04, Ferdinand said:

I would say you have 3 options.

 

1 - Reduce it to the size that is permitted Development.

2 - Persuade the neighbour.

3 - Go for full PP then if necessary Appeal if you think there are no relevant plannning objections (I don't think there are based on what you have said)

 

I would not worry about 2 and go for one of the others.

 

F

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Thank you that is very helpful advice.