Basic upvc frame job Q‘s.

[zoothorn]

On 02/08/2021 at 17:57, joe90 said:

Yes,  here is a (bad) drawing if what you will have. Your existing concrete cill should have a small upstand at the back when you remove the timber window. This will allow any moisture that gets into the window frame to drip out and run down your concrete cill. Just make sure to put sone silicone on the concrete cill only at the back so as not to block this weep hole 

 

 

Hi J, thanks so much for this useful sketch.. a while ago!

 

Finally onto the job, got 3 dry days. I just hacked away my old frame ok. At long last have new upvc frame.

 

So all systems go. Only 3 pages so far (gone over replies before I started). 
 

Ok I've got this pickle confronting me.. a bit daunting. I wonder if you could shed a few thoughts what to do 1st?

Thanks, zh

 

 

 

[zoothorn]

Got my frame whittled in place, but problem I have is it doesn't sit on the concrete cill. 
 

Frame pretty much sits bang over the cavity. So do I need to form a new cill? It can't be more than 15mm H absolute max though whatever it is.

 

Thanks, zh

 

 

[zoothorn]

@PeterW or @joe90 I wonder if you could help.

 

(I'm panicking a bit with gloomy skies, & a big ole in me house!).

 

Was hoping the new frame would sit on the concrete cill, but misses it (pic 1 looking straight down).

 

So I have to form some kind of shelf below or something. Got about 15mm H max. Any idea what I can do?

Thanks, Zoothorn.

 

 

 

Edited August 28, 2022 by zoothorn

[Iceverge]

Can you get a small pvc sill to take you over the concrete sill? As it is a fixed window just using straps to hold it in place should be fine. 

 

Alternatively get a hammer and break out the old sill then fit a new precast one to your tastes. 

 

If you're brave you could also just pour one in place. Take a hammer to the existing one and get rid of the top 50mm. Then shutter the outside with some ply and some PIR in the cavity which can stay in place afterwards. It'll take a few days to be strong mind you. 

[zoothorn]

13 hours ago, Iceverge said:

Can you get a small pvc sill to take you over the concrete sill? As it is a fixed window just using straps to hold it in place should be fine. 

 

Alternatively get a hammer and break out the old sill then fit a new precast one to your tastes. 

 

If you're brave you could also just pour one in place. Take a hammer to the existing one and get rid of the top 50mm. Then shutter the outside with some ply and some PIR in the cavity which can stay in place afterwards. It'll take a few days to be strong mind you. 

Hi IceV.

 

the idea of adding any form whatsoever of placcy cill on.. is ideal, but surely nothing that's 15mm is available

 

Hammering off any ammount from the block is worrying, as I found chisselling off just 1/2" of render to tidy the top up. I jyst can't see how anymore is possible without loosening/ damaging the blocks. I don't want to be left with a wall to repair, before starting on the window. I don't have any such skills.

 

So the idea of filling the cavity top, forming a wood sheath thing, then fashioning a new added cill within it from mortar (?) or concrete (?).. seems only thing plausible.

 

Anyone else have any ideas?

 

Thanks, zh

[dpmiller]

bit of bullnose pvc cut to suit.

[joe90]

See if you can get a bit of this from someone doing their facia boards 

https://plasticcentre.co.uk/product/100mm-flat-general-purpose-board-9mm/

[Onoff]

Did you measure wrong for the new window then?

[Simplysimon]

On 28/08/2022 at 20:05, zoothorn said:

Got about 15mm H max. Any idea what I can do?

these are 30mm, however, an electric planer will lose 7mm off the top and 7mm off the top

alternatively one of these is 9mm but used for an internal cill but should be ok outside

[zoothorn]

2 hours ago, Onoff said:

Did you measure wrong for the new window then?

No, I did my utmost to measure best I could. Height is ok. But I cant add to the height of either the frame, or the cill level it was meant to sit on, bar 10mm. Max. Meaning I'm compromised as to what I can do/ add.

 

I'm thinking fill the cavity 'trench' with mortar or concrete, just up to the existing level of the old concrete cill. I mean fill say 50mm deep, so 50x50 HxD, by 600mm along.

 

But how would I form a shutter to do this is the Q. 
 

zh

 

 

[zoothorn]

3 hours ago, joe90 said:

See if you can get a bit of this from someone doing their facia boards 

https://plasticcentre.co.uk/product/100mm-flat-general-purpose-board-9mm/

Hi J, thanks good idea. Now Im limited to few places here, but @Simplysimon 's suggestion similar, & I saw Eurocell mentioned on his link/ thanks SS/ which is where my frame bought from in town. So I'll go in & ask, see of they hsve anything similar.

 

Thing is though, swivelling the sod into the sides, is damn squeeze as it is: it would be more ideal, if I could form the concrete 'bed' better instead. 
 

Thanks, zh

[zoothorn]

4 hours ago, dpmiller said:

bit of bullnose pvc cut to suit.

Thanks I'll see if Eurocell has some. 
 

So just a piece 70mm x 600mm (this is my frame DxW) but instead of 70mm... say 90mm? So it'll -just- rest on the concrete cill say 20mm or so.  
 

A bead of sticks like sh*t all weather silicone adhesive (i used on my flue roof rubber boot thing) to fix it to the frame underside? then again to fix frame 20mm onto the concrete?

 

Thanks, good suggestion I s'pose I could get this from jewson too, & cheap. Cheers, zoot.

[zoothorn]

6 hours ago, dpmiller said:

bit of bullnose pvc cut to suit.

Do you mean this stuff dpm..

 

Ive got it added on the reveals on my wc window, probably to close a big gap: looks about 50mm W strip stuff..

 

 

[dpmiller]

no, more like this:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/150mm-White-Window-Plastic-Capping/dp/B077SYJZNH

[craig]

It might be a bit of a faff, but chop off 40/50mm of the render and move the window forward by that distance. You should be sitting directly on the stone cill and the cill will deal with the water runoff. Put a couple of packers (5mm or so) underneath to level it out, a bead of mastic (your window is face drained), pack the side and top and you may even get a screw fixing through the frame without having to strap it back to the inner block.

Edited August 30, 2022 by craig

[zoothorn]

3 hours ago, craig said:

It might be a bit of a faff, but chop off 40/50mm of the render and move the window forward by that distance. You should be sitting directly on the stone cill and the cill will deal with the water runoff. Put a couple of packers (5mm or so) underneath to level it out, a bead of mastic (your window is face drained), pack the side and top and you may even get a screw fixing through the frame without having to strap it back to the inner block.

Hi Craig,

 

many thanks for this idea- makes much sense/ understand it. Thing I'm reticent about with this idea, is I have a nice neat flush render 'outline' lip (the render put onto the sides of OLD frame once frame put in), to help me putting in new frame.

 

So your idea means hacking into this an inch, pretty hard work   to do too.

 

Ive got 3 days now before weather shifts... so I must make a decision onhow to proceed tmrw. I searched high & low for plastic additions today to the base... but all 5m. I just refuse to bin 4.5m of alot of plastic, this is criminal wastage.

 

So it's your idea, or fill the 'trench' with mortar ( or concrete- I cannot distinguish between them). But I have to somehow shutter the area in Q, & never done this/ no idea if the idea is even feasable.

 

Thanks, zoot

Edited August 30, 2022 by zoothorn

[Onoff]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[zoothorn]

@Onoff hi thanks for that. Yes understood the best way.

 

Trouble is Im very reticent to whack into the render ( Id have a day of stress chipping off 50mm around of the thick outside reveal area). If I damage blockwork.. I have huge problem. I can't see how to attack the block & render welded together, without damaging the block.

 

So.. Ive resorted to this. As long as I can get the window 'resting' on something below, to bond onto to form a seal, surely just about ok. Hope bloomin so. Done now!

 

Its some form of concrete I cobbled up. Lord knows what.

 

 

 

 

[Onoff]

I didn't mean to hack off the render. Photos to show how I filled the cavity with a bit of EPS, levelled of the inner leaf with a mortar mix then foamed either side. My nod to minimising cold bridging.

 

This place btw is 20 odd miles from you:

 

https://plasticcentre.co.uk/store-locator/

[zoothorn]

2 hours ago, Onoff said:

I didn't mean to hack off the render. Photos to show how I filled the cavity with a bit of EPS, levelled of the inner leaf with a mortar mix then foamed either side. My nod to minimising cold bridging.

 

This place btw is 20 odd miles from you:

 

https://plasticcentre.co.uk/store-locator/

Hi Onoff, I've added a pic of what I've done/ had to: it was suggested I have no stub cill ( bc there's an old concrete cill there).. but not taken into account was where the frame would 'land'. Turns out I did need a stub cill after all.

 

So, my concrete 'bed' / something for the frame to land on, is curing ok ( 24 hrs now). I need to crack on even whilst it cures more. 2 days to do this!

 

So I have my frame fixings as PeterW suggested. I have some, foam, and plastic spacers. 
 

If you can give me a hand, what to do next.. I'd be grateful.

 

Thanks, zoot

[zoothorn]

Can anyone help.

 

I have a pack of frame fixings, but never used them. I don't think they are the same principle as rawl plugs & screws.

 

Here is my frame wedged in level & plumb. 1186x 600mm.

 

I can drill thru frame into wall ok, 3x per side... but then what do I do? 
 

Remove frame, insert the wall plugs part into wall.. then reset the frame again, put screws in? I have a suspicion this not the way these fixings are meant to be used.

 

Thanks, zoot

[zoothorn]

[Onoff]

10 minutes ago, zoothorn said:

I have a pack of frame fixings, but never used them. I don't think they are the same principle as rawl plugs & screws

 

Didn't you do a window previously in the house yourself?

[Gone West]

18 minutes ago, zoothorn said:

Remove frame, insert the wall plugs part into wall.. then reset the frame again, put screws in? I have a suspicion this not the way these fixings are meant to be used.

The whole frame fixing goes into the window frame and into the wall. The type I used many years ago went in with the screw halfway out of the plug and they were knocked in with a hammer and then a final tighten with a screwdriver.

[zoothorn]

7 minutes ago, Onoff said:

 

Didn't you do a window previously in the house yourself?

No or Id know roughly what to do.

 

Can someone just help me with 'frame fixings'?

 

Bought some, but hefty jobs it seems.. m10 x120mm ( I thought "frame fixings" were a one size thing). If I only have 8mm masonry bit, then these won't do will they?

 

The principle of rawl plugs Ive done hundreds of times. But doing something other than the standard 'make hole, push plug in'... with sonething that looks like a rawl plug, essentially, & my head is aching/ it doesn't compute.

 

Youtube clips, ive done, but 'hammer fixings' is a term used too. I have no idea wtf is going on. Hammer??

 

Thanks, zh