Basic upvc frame job Q‘s.

[zoothorn]

Hi, I want to replace an old wood single glaze window, for my U T room renovation. Could I ask some basic Q’s, advice.

 

Is this a fairly straightforward job on the whole? Should I be measuring the hxw of opening from inside, and addIng 5mm to each side, top, btm to get my new upvc size to order? Before whacking old one out?

 

Any general tips appreciated, thx zh.

 

 

[nod]

If you chip a bit of plaster off on all sides of the frame or remove the mastic on the outside You will be able to measure the frame that’s in and get the same size 

They normally take a week to ten days to come in 

[zoothorn]

3 hours ago, nod said:

If you chip a bit of plaster off on all sides of the frame or remove the mastic on the outside You will be able to measure the frame that’s in and get the same size 

They normally take a week to ten days to come in 

You mean chip plaster off outside, &/or mastic.. both on the outside rather than chipping off inside?

[craig]

Measure width and height inside and measure width/height external (not the window size) and you can take your measurement from there.

 

Your window size will “generally“ be 5mm to 10mm larger than your internal size.
 

 

 

 

[zoothorn]

5 minutes ago, craig said:

Measure width and height inside and measure width/height external (not the window size) and you can take your measurement from there.

 

Your window size will “generally“ be 5mm to 10mm larger than your internal size.
 

 

 

 

.. and the same dims smaller than the external size then?

 

I did some basics before I asked the q.. and consensus seemed to be these figs as a gap, smaller frame to hole.. but it’s the www and I trust here 1st, general www opinions 2nd.

[craig]

Here's a screenshot of a recent survey we carried out. 

With the below survey the external width was larger than the internal width. Our tolerance is 10mm all around and went with this in width and 5mm top and bottom. We would have done 5mm all around but due to how the window was going to be sitting, fitting compriband and PU foam would have been problematic.

[nod]

1 hour ago, zoothorn said:

You mean chip plaster off outside, &/or mastic.. both on the outside rather than chipping off inside?

Just so you are able to get a tape measure in

[Russell griffiths]

If you are fitting it from outside hack of the render to reveal your old frame size. 

[Onoff]

1 hour ago, Russell griffiths said:

If you are fitting it from outside hack of the render to reveal your old frame size. 

 

Yarp. 

 

[zoothorn]

Ok thanks chaps- understood.

 

I do have a faux 'stone effect' render area around the frame: what I mean is sort of contoured surface & rounded edges of the outside reveals.

 

Does this cause any additional issues regarding frame size, or, is this rendering an addition -after- the frame would likely have gone in? (looks orig frame to this 30yr old extention).

 

I'll do a photo of external tmrw. Thanks for help (& pic). zH

[zoothorn]

Once Ive got the old frame out, assuming just a lump hammer needed, & cleaning up the wall area.. is putting in the new frame in a fairly simple procedure, IE without the need for specialist fitting tools?

 

I know how to put the glass & bead in- 5 min job & very satisfying too!

 

thanks zoot.

[Onoff]

Some info here in a thread of mine. Wooden wedges are your friend:

 

 

[PeterW]

17 minutes ago, zoothorn said:

Once Ive got the old frame out, assuming just a lump hammer needed, & cleaning up the wall area.. is putting in the new frame in a fairly simple procedure, IE without the need for specialist fitting tools?

 

I know how to put the glass & bead in- 5 min job & very satisfying too!

 

thanks zoot.

Old frame will probably be screwed in. Check the frame once you take the glass out and you may find some big screws. 
 

Get some hammer fix frame fixers as they just need a drill to fit them. Then foam in around the edges, let it go hard and trim back before you do a sealant bead and replace the render. 

[Nick]

uPVC windows are easy enough, you should be OK not having any specialist tools. A glazing knife is always handy but you can do without.

 

If you are deducting from the narrowest point of a square/plumb opening and are very confident in what you're measuring then 5mm tolerance all around is fine.

 

Would recommend nylon wedges and glazing packers over wood - less risk of them swelling / falling apart if they get wet.

[Onoff]

8 hours ago, Nick said:

uPVC windows are easy enough, you should be OK not having any specialist tools. A glazing knife is always handy but you can do without.

 

If you are deducting from the narrowest point of a square/plumb opening and are very confident in what you're measuring then 5mm tolerance all around is fine.

 

Would recommend nylon wedges and glazing packers over wood - less risk of them swelling / falling apart if they get wet.

 

If your referring to where I said wooden wedges above, I meant just to tap in and hold the frame square and plumb whilst the foam goes off. 

 

Edited September 8, 2020 by Onoff

[Nick]

Gotcha.

 

Suggested best practice is to use nylon shims to pack out the fixings and leave them in situ when you silicone to prevent later movement, but on small windows it's not really a huge deal.

 

[zoothorn]

On 07/09/2020 at 21:40, Onoff said:

Some info here in a thread of mine. Wooden wedges are your friend:

 

 

 

Thanks for this link Onoff. Its mentioned yours was a one-piece with glass fixed-in ? is that right, or was it as I thought they all are, removable dg glass you put in last job.

[Onoff]

4 hours ago, zoothorn said:

 

Thanks for this link Onoff. Its mentioned yours was a one-piece with glass fixed-in ? is that right, or was it as I thought they all are, removable dg glass you put in last job.

 

Always had removable glass that I've had to fit and bang the beads in. I did do a one piece window, below,  i.e no openers  but that was still frame first then fit the beads. I used Compriband and foam for the one.

 

 

Wooden braces in there as to make good the render fillet that holds the glass in I needed to render up against something. 

[zoothorn]

On 10/09/2020 at 14:51, Onoff said:

 

Always had removable glass that I've had to fit and bang the beads in. I did do a one piece window, below,  i.e no openers  but that was still frame first then fit the beads. I used Compriband and foam for the one.

 

 

Wooden braces in there as to make good the render fillet that holds the glass in I needed to render up against something. 

Hi Onoff, ok get the general idea of this being a frame 1st then glass, beads etc.. i cant think how else its done tbh. Here is my old frame, its got the rounded reveal render i presume added after the whole window installed.
 

Does this additional reveal render, as it seems i have here compared to normal ones like yours, make the job any more tricky?

 

 

[zoothorn]

On 04/09/2020 at 20:05, Onoff said:

 

Yarp. 

 

 

Hi Onoff. Just refreshing myself on this thread from sept- now my next job, whilst waiting on porch mortar to cure.

 

Your window job looks a very similar job: size, old wood frame > new upvc unit.. so a great reference eg/ super helpful as always.

 

So I see your chip-away ext render bits to aid measurement of your old frame: now did you order your new frame at the same dims? OR subtracted 5mm to top & btm, & both sides too? And was your sill replaced, or came part of the new unit-?

 

..or maybe you subtracted a safer 10mm all around, as Craig mentions he did with his job.

 

Appreciated- zoot.

 

 

[Onoff]

2 hours ago, zoothorn said:

 

Hi Onoff. Just refreshing myself on this thread from sept- now my next job, whilst waiting on porch mortar to cure.

 

Your window job looks a very similar job: size, old wood frame > new upvc unit.. so a great reference eg/ super helpful as always.

 

So I see your chip-away ext render bits to aid measurement of your old frame: now did you order your new frame at the same dims? OR subtracted 5mm to top & btm, & both sides too? And was your sill replaced, or came part of the new unit-?

 

..or maybe you subtracted a safer 10mm all around, as Craig mentions he did with his job.

 

Appreciated- zoot.

 

 

 

I would have had the new uPVC frame and sill made to the same dimensions as the old window/sill. It's just the way I roll.

 

This is the drawing I did.

 

 

The ar5ehole surveyors who measured up for some of my other uPVC windows (pre me buying the place) should be shot. They left 20-25mm all round. All so they could fit them asap. Huge gaps around all 4 sides with no expanding foam or Compriband. They covered it all over with plastic trim that they mitre bonded (super glue'd) on. I'm in no rush to get to the next job so did it exact. The thing that kills a job for window fitters is if they have to start hacking openings bigger. Means they can only double glaze 5 houses in a day rather than 6! ? Go with less 5 or 10mm all round if you feel happier. If an old wooden window has swollen watch for that.

 

You'll just need more foam/thicker Compriband/wider trim.

 

If you get the chance watch the series White Gold on TV for a good laugh about the early days of double glazing. 

 

[zoothorn]

Hi @Onoff cheers for this info. Yes understand 20mm would be a huge pain. I'm a bit reticent tho of exact same size/ sods law I'll struggle & have to hack away, so I'll go 5mm allround less I think.. use those placcy packers whilst foaming &/ or screwing frame in.

 

Just a nice clear patch now to do it.. as it'll take me a week min!

 

Will look into White Gold too.

[zoothorn]

Hi- another question on this please. Can the frame be fitted from the inside-?

 

The reason I ask, is the existing frame is tighter on the outside in its reveals (width is the thing) with contoured 'fake stonework' reveal render, which would be a shame to hack off too. The inside is alot cleaner/ squarer, I think it would be easier to fit any new frame from this side.

 

Thanks zoot.

[joe90]

I would rather hack off plaster to fit a window than hack off render!.

[zoothorn]

1 hour ago, joe90 said:

I would rather hack off plaster to fit a window than hack off render!.

 

Understood. I'm beginning to think now the frames been fixed in (at time of kitchen end extention put on, 80's maybe).. then both rendered over the frame by a little, and, on the inside the same: plaster I think has gone over the frame edge a little too. Looks tight & well fitted! but that doesn't help me tho.

 

So I guess I have a choice like you suggest Joe. Defo chip away from inside? I guess you mean plaster is softer/ easier to hack off-?

 

thanks zH