Digging and swapping soil for sand - work estimate

[ReX]

Hi,

 

As mentioned in another thread, I am renovating the garden and I need some guidance on what could be the effort of my next move.

Based on that I will decide if I need to hire someone or just get some help from a friend (I have never done any digging if you exclude the one necessary to put up a beach umbrella). 

 

I have lifted the old garden slabs from the green area (5.5*5.5 meters) and I found below 10/20 cm layer of compacted sand sitting on another layer of slabs sitting directly on the soil. The multiple layers of buried slabs remind me of previous civilisations, but I suppose it was just the last 2 owners :).

 

I've started digging (see top left corner of the green area) and even if seems very compact it is easily breakable.

 

Here what I want to achieve: move all the sand from the green area to the blue area (at the bottom of the garden) and fill the green area with the soil that is now in the read area (it was 20cm high raised bed with concrete walls that are now gone).

 

The blue area is going to become the base of a garden office (about 5*5m). On top of the sand I could lay over the old slabs. 

The rest of the garden (with the exclusion of the path) will be grass (now it is weed).

 

As the old shed is now loaded with tons of stuff and I won't manage to empty it and install the garden office this summer, I think I could temporarily store the sand in the pink area (laying it over a plastic sheet to avoid it spreads over the soil).

 

How many days do you anticipate it would take for 1 or 2 people?

If I hire someone, what could be a reasonable cost?

 

My goal is to minimise the amount of stuff I need to carry through the house, so reusing existing soil, sand, slabs is my top priority.

 

Thanks!

 

 

[Conor]

If it were me, I'd hire a 1.5tonne digger and a motorised wheelbarrow for the weekend (£200 or so) and get cracking. That's assuming you can get access in to the garden for a 1m wide machine?

[Onoff]

I'd just man up! ?

 

 

No mates local who'd help for a barbie and some beers?

[ReX]

2 hours ago, Conor said:

If it were me, I'd hire a 1.5tonne digger and a motorised wheelbarrow for the weekend (£200 or so) and get cracking. That's assuming you can get access in to the garden for a 1m wide machine?

 

1 meter wouldn't fit. But in general I am terrified by the idea of carrying heavy stuff through the hallway. I had 2 bad experiences with "recommended" builders damaging walls, tiles and doors. I had to replace brand new stuff just installed (and everything was properly protected).

 

2 hours ago, Onoff said:

I'd just man up! ?

 

 

No mates local who'd help for a barbie and some beers?

 

A friend might be able to help me this weekend. Let's see how far we get. 

 

Thanks 

[joe90]

I am daunted by the amount of ground work I have to do But a little each day without knocking yourself out gets it done, if a friend can help all the better. 

[ProDave]

Biggest problem you will have is intermediate storage of material.

 

e.g you want to dig out soil from one area and put it somewhere else, but you first have to remove what's at the destination and store that temporarily somewhere.

 

You will have  to do it in small stages so you have space to temporarily store materials.  Once one bit is finished you can lay temporary sheeting to use that as your storage area.

 

I would do it with a shovel and wheelbarrow and accept it is going to take a long time and be hard work.

 

 

[Onoff]

44 minutes ago, ProDave said:

I would do it with a shovel and wheelbarrow and accept it is going to take a long time and be hard work.

 

& cheaper than gym membership! 

 

I'd do a square metre at a time. Just concentrate on that. Once to depth start the next square metre. You'll see clear, measurable, progress. 

 

I need to try that approach with what we refer to as "the side of the house". Thank your lucky stars you haven't got working drains and old footings reinforced with chain link fence to dig up. (The drains pass through the footings).

 

 

There's always someone worse off! ?

 

Hand digging is doable. Think for my bathroom I dug out about 4.5m3 of concrete & compacted soil by hand and barrowed it out of the house. It grows in volume when you dig it up btw! 

 

 

[Ferdinand]

5.5 * 5.5 * 0.15 is 4.5 cubic m, so only approx 5 bulk bags.

 

Have a crack for a weekend, and you might be surprised how much you move by hand. 

Edited July 18, 2020 by Ferdinand

[Onoff]

Clear SOME sand onto the pink holding area. But clear it from a defined area. Then bring soil back on the return trip and dumping where the sand came out of. Get a rhythm going. Try and cut down on moving stuff twice. 

[joe90]

8 minutes ago, Onoff said:

Try and cut down on moving stuff twice. 

Oh yes, found I have been doing this a lot but try not to anymore ?

[Onoff]

1 hour ago, joe90 said:

Oh yes, found I have been doing this a lot but try not to anymore ?

 

Pppppp!

[daiking]

The fences look fine ?

[Declan52]

Rake out the sand. Dig out the soil in the blue area and put it on top of the sand and rake it all together. Roll out turf will grow here as the grass has its roots already in the turf. 

Will your garden office have a concrete floor or timber??

A concrete floor will require some compacted hardcore.

A timber floor will let you lay some of the flags and then use scaffold planks to set the frame on so it's easy to get it all level.

Not much more than a weekends work digging out the blue area and raking it into the sand. Roll out turf is very very fast to lay. It will take you longer to carry it round than put it down. 14 days of watering the turf each day and it will be perfect.

 

 

[ReX]

To my surprise, we managed to lift and move all the sand from the green area to the pink area, in about 4 hours. 

It wasn't just sand but also some solid concrete, but while it took time to break it, it was also easier to pick those large pieces (compared to the other find sand).

 

The old tiles that were buried under the sand are now exposed, I need to lift them and fill with the soil from the former flowerbed in the blue area.

I lifted some of them and this time underneath the tiles there should be just soil, no more sand or concrete. I'll leave the path as it is and lay on top the new tiles.

 

On 18/07/2020 at 19:50, Declan52 said:

Will your garden office have a concrete floor or timber??

A concrete floor will require some compacted hardcore.

 

I have two options on the table now: SIP kit or "lightweight metal C stud" kit. With SIPs the floor panels could sit directly on top of ground screws or concrete. 

If I get the lightweight metal frame, I will need to build my own base (it is not provided). Any suggestion? Quadrabase is ultraexpensive and I would like to avoid concrete.

 

Quote

A timber floor will let you lay some of the flags and then use scaffold planks to set the frame on so it's easy to get it all level.

 

I am not sure I understand: could you explain it once again?

 

Quote

Not much more than a weekends work digging out the blue area and raking it into the sand. Roll out turf is very very fast to lay. It will take you longer to carry it round than put it down. 14 days of watering the turf each day and it will be perfect.

 

Any suggestion on how to get rid of the weed? I keep killing it with weedkiller but it comes back after heavy rain. Once killed (again), if I roll the turf over, will the weed continue to grow trough the grass? If so, how do I kill it without killing the grass as well?

 

Edited July 19, 2020 by ReX

[ReX]

On 18/07/2020 at 19:10, daiking said:

The fences look fine ?

 

I plan to have a more modern look :).

 

To add more colour: my original plan (now under discussion because it will take to much effort) was to buy cladding panels from Rockpanel (2440 * 1220) and cut them in stripes of variable height (between 5-10 cm), in the shape of "waves" that I would then fix against the old post, creating a sort of horizontal random stripes look. The space between each stripe should be about 2cm. The wave look and the random finish was intended also to hide the fact that the original fences are not exactly in line. 

 

To cut so many panels in some many pieces I intended to buy this CNC machine and do the design of the stripes in CAD:

https://www.maslowcnc.com/

Edited July 19, 2020 by ReX

[ProDave]

9 minutes ago, ReX said:

To my surprise, we managed to lift and move all the sand from the green area to the pink area, in about 4 hours. 

It wasn't just sand but also some solid concrete, but while it took time to break it, it was also easier to pick those large pieces (compared to the other find sand).

 

The old tiles that were buried under the sand are now exposed, I need to lift them and fill with the soil from the former flowerbed in the blue area.

I lifted some of them and this time underneath the tiles there should be just soil, no more sand or concrete. I'll leave the path as it is and lay on top the new tiles.

 

 

I will either have a SIP garden office or one with lightweight metal studs. With SIPs the floor panels could sit directly on top of ground screws or concrete. 

If I get the lightweight metal frame, I will need to build my own base (it doesn't come with the kits). Any suggestion? Quadrabase is ultraexpensive and I would like to avoid concrete.

 

 

I am not sure I follow:  do you mean to use scaffold planks to set the shape and pour concrete in it?

 

 

Any suggestion on how to get rid of the weeds? I keep killing it with weedkiller but it comes back after heavy rain. Once killed (again), if I roll the turf over, will the weed continue to grow trough the grass? If so, how do I kill it without killing the grass as well?

 

 

What weed killer have you been using?

 

A Glyphosate weed killer e.g. gallup360 should kill those.

[ReX]

5 minutes ago, ProDave said:

 

What weed killer have you been using?

 

A Glyphosate weed killer e.g. gallup360 should kill those.

 

Resolva 24h. They die but then then come back. 

[Onoff]

 If you were to do a concrete base you compact hardcore within levelled shuttering:

 

 

Once the hardcore is pretty much level you "blind" it with sand. This is to protect the DPM you lay next (damp proof membrane). (Tbh I laid down a load of old flattened, rubble bags too). Not shown is a layer of A142 mesh in there.

 

 

Then fill with concrete. Took me about 4 hours to mix, lay and tidy up on my own:

 

 

Then tamp it all flat with a long straight board:

 

 

With the shuttering off you can see the (blue) dpm all round the edge.

 

 

[Onoff]

Found at random about bases for "garden rooms". Seems sensible:

 

https://www.gardenaffairs.co.uk/blog-offering-inspiration-expert-advice/how-to-build-a-base-for-your-garden-building

[Declan52]

A timber floor like you would have on most sheds are usually something as basic as 4*2 for joists and OSB sheets. 

You lay the flags in rows and on top of these you can lay a scaffold plank onto which you then set the 4*2 at 90 degrees to the planks. 

Very easy then to pack up the planks so they sit level.

Down side of this is you have left a gap for mice,rats etc. 

Concrete much better solution but obviously much more work and more expensive.

[Ferdinand]

2 hours ago, ReX said:

To my surprise, we managed to lift and move all the sand from the green area to the pink area, in about 4 hours. 

It wasn't just sand but also some solid concrete, but while it took time to break it, it was also easier to pick those large pieces (compared to the other find sand).

 

 

Great news. ?

 

On 18/07/2020 at 13:51, Ferdinand said:

5.5 * 5.5 * 0.15 is 4.5 cubic m, so only approx 5 bulk bags.

 

Have a crack for a weekend, and you might be surprised how much you move by hand. 

 

*polishes nails on shirtfront*

[Gone West]

11 hours ago, ReX said:

Any suggestion on how to get rid of the weed? I keep killing it with weedkiller but it comes back after heavy rain.

Most of the weeds shown are annuals and you are killing them with the weedkiller but after rain the seeds still in the soil are then growing. The annuals won't grow through the turf but it's worth getting rid of any perennials like nettles.

[Onoff]

2 hours ago, PeterStarck said:

Most of the weeds shown are annuals and you are killing them with the weedkiller but after rain the seeds still in the soil are then growing. The annuals won't grow through the turf but it's worth getting rid of any perennials like nettles.

 

Is it true you should always try and pull nettles up roots and all?

[daiking]

8 minutes ago, Onoff said:

 

Is it true you should always try and pull nettles up roots and all?

 

Yes but you should dig them out really as pulling them its too easy to leave some root behind.

[joe90]

24 minutes ago, Onoff said:

 

Is it true you should always try and pull nettles up roots and all?

I have been doing that, unlike dock which snaps and leaves root behind I find nettles (in dry ground) tend to pull all the roots as well.