started digging drain

[redtop]

dug first 4m of 20m run by hand, the easy bit cos it slopes uphill from here so gets deeper. ground rock solid. hired digger from Monday, have I wimped out ? 

[joe90]

  On 19/06/2020 at 20:49, redtop said:

have I wimped out

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No, work smarter, not harder, anyone can knock their b####x off but why when there’s a machine to do the hard work.

[Miek]

Depends how deep your going ?

 

I'd hire a machine .

[redtop]

1/2m deep at moment, will be going to 1.5m deep in next 5 metres, then need to dig out inspection chamber. anyhooo digger hired coming monday

[SuperJohnG]

Hell no ...makes perfect sense. Nothing wrong with changing a plan half way through 

[Conor]

A very simple thing I do is to put a value against my time. Let's say £10 an hour for low skilled work, like digging a ditch. Then say we have a job that will take a full week, say £400 of my own labour. 

 

But I could hire some equipment that would mean the job only took two days. Say £150 for equipment hire and my time meant that the real cost was £310. So you've not only saved some "money", you've freed up three days to do other jobs, more skilled work that's worth £25hr. That's how you save money on a self build.

[ToughButterCup]

  On 19/06/2020 at 20:49, redtop said:

... have I wimped out ?

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I had exactly the same problem right when C-19 struck. That meant about a month digging 35 cubic meters by hand. At the time I cursed a bit. I've already forgotten the irritation,  but I do know - now - exactly what's involved in accurate digging to a fairly precise fall. In brief

• Keep checking for level - over-digging by hand is soooo annoying 
• Make sure the width is right, pipe width plus space for one foot either side of the pipe- too wide is as bad as too narrow 
• Plan for spoil - topsoil one side, clay / whatever else 'other side. Backfills easier that way. 
• Make a set of trench boards to prevent,  where necessary, collapse- scaffold Jacks to brace between boards on either side.
• Plan how to drain the trench : thunderstorms.
• Buy a clay spade. Brilliant bit of kit.
• Two people digging (machine or hand) speeds  the process significantly.  Debbie helping more than doubled the rate of progress 
• Plan for where the backfill 10mm gravel is dumped.  It's a much bigger task than I thought. 
• A laser level really helps.

 

 

[Dreadnaught]

  On 20/06/2020 at 06:46, Conor said:

A very simple thing I do is to put a value against my time. Let's say £10 an hour for low skilled work, like digging a ditch. Then say we have a job that will take a full week, say £400 of my own labour. 

 

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That's an interesting approach. I like it.

 

To add to this in my case, as a novice in building, I also want to try everything* at least once. There is nothing quite like being hands-on to really learn about something. Moreover, this would then put me in a much better position to know what's-what when I have someone else doing the job in exchange for my money. 

 

* with well-known exceptions, like plastering, brick-laying and electrics.

[Moira Niedzwiecka]

  On 20/06/2020 at 12:26, Dreadnaught said:

 I also want to try everything* at least once.

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Just beware of expanding foam. It's the work of the devil.

[PeterW]

  On 19/06/2020 at 22:49, redtop said:

will be going to 1.5m deep in next 5 metres

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What is your ground like..?That is starting to get to the point where you should be ensuring the sides are supported on poor ground, and also make sure your spoil is a long way from the trench edge

 

[redtop]

its clay like, solid when dry and sticks like s**t when wet. 

[redtop]

  On 20/06/2020 at 07:15, ToughButterCup said:

 

I had exactly the same problem right when C-19 struck. That meant about a month digging 35 cubic meters by hand. At the time I cursed a bit. I've already forgotten the irritation,  but I do know - now - exactly what's involved in accurate digging to a fairly precise fall. In brief

• Keep checking for level - over-digging by hand is soooo annoying 
• Make sure the width is right, pipe width plus space for one foot either side of the pipe- too wide is as bad as too narrow 
• Plan for spoil - topsoil one side, clay / whatever else 'other side. Backfills easier that way. 
• Make a set of trench boards to prevent,  where necessary, collapse- scaffold Jacks to brace between boards on either side.
• Plan how to drain the trench : thunderstorms.
• Buy a clay spade. Brilliant bit of kit.
• Two people digging (machine or hand) speeds  the process significantly.  Debbie helping more than doubled the rate of progress 
• Plan for where the backfill 10mm gravel is dumped.  It's a much bigger task than I thought. 
• A laser level really helps.

 

 

Expand  

never heard of a clay spade, which one did you use?

[Timedout]

Always go for a man and a machine. The experienced operator will have three time the efficient use of time and can scrape level. The small local chaps are usually really cheap. You can’t get the VAT back on hired equipment but services are zero rated on new build. Just make sure the invoice says ground works services rather than plant hire.

[redtop]

  On 22/06/2020 at 10:34, Timedout said:

Always go for a man and a machine. The experienced operator will have three time the efficient use of time and can scrape level. The small local chaps are usually really cheap. You can’t get the VAT back on hired equipment but services are zero rated on new build. Just make sure the invoice says ground works services rather than plant hire.

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too late, got machine and doing digging myself, took 2 hours to dig out the deep area where the manhole goes, now got 15m of trench to do plus some hand digging so I don't damage the sewer pipe

[ToughButterCup]

  On 21/06/2020 at 20:30, redtop said:

never heard of a clay spade, which one did you use?

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This is a hand one

 

And a clay spade for a digger is a thin bucket with its cheeks cut off 

You're on clay ... unavoidable expense...

[redtop]

right. so digger experience.  dug 20M of drain run, had a bit of a bend but managed to get pipe to fit ? 2M deep at end, about a foot at other but now covered with more soil so a couple of foot or more down. managed to get slope pretty even by eye which was a miracle tbh.  Hand shovelling stone in was hardest part! now all filled in and running fine. Started digging out a slope to create a flat level for garden.  getting ground level with digger is hard compared to digging  trench but a few days work would have taken weeks, at least, by hand. in fact not sure I could have done it given how hard the ground is. best 250 quid ever spent