What constitutes start of development?

[hmpmarketing]

Hello all,

 

Really frustrated at the moment as I missed out on one little thing that is now delaying start of groundworks! 

 

There is one condition on my planning application that states:

 

• "Development shall not commence until full details of the proposed surface water drainage scheme have been submitted to and approved in writing by the Local Planning Authority."

 

I enquired with my case officer regarding this (about 12-14 days ago I did apply to discharge this condition), however due to workload, my case officer has stated that he will only be able to write the report and decision in January!!!

 

So I asked him again what is the actual definition of "development", and if I could somehow seek permission to at least start clearing the site (clearing brambles, levelling, etc). not foundation work or trenches.

 

He says he is not able to answer this and that I should seek advice of a planning consultant in this particular query.

 

Can anybody give me some feedback of what exactly "Development" means from their point of view, and if if I am allowed to do anything or should I just wait?

 

Thanks again everyone!

[ToughButterCup]

My research over a long period  on exactly the same issue leads me to conclude that the answer varies by area, and by whom you ask. The answer below is no more than a summary of my own research and experience.

 

Commonest answer: as soon as you break ground - as for example to connect services.

 

Looking at our site, you'd be daft to conclude that we haven't started development. But technically we haven't. Not one sod has been turned: electricity and water comes from our own house (so no need for external temporary connections).

 

The answer above also depends on whether the LPA feels minded to pursue those who might break ground (commence development) earlier than 'permitted'. Briefly, is there any point in an Enforcement Order on a site which will shortly have full permission and have all Conditions discharged?

 

No, appears to be a common answer.

[Ferdinand]

I think it is a movable feast, but you could get away with quite a lot.

 

I don't see how a bit of pruning and tidying ;-) on your land cold be development.

 

The one thing to watch iirc is that you have your exemption from CiL: irreversibly locked in, as I believe some have had problems.

 

Ferdinand

[joe90]

I think it really depends on your local planning lot ( or neighbours that might drop you in it) if you were just to clear the brambles etc and perhaps level the site what can they do?, even if they "caught you" just apologise say you didn't realise " gardening" was classed as development, by the time they get round to writing to you it will be January anyway ?

[hmpmarketing]

Thanks guys for the replies :-)

 

3 minutes ago, joe90 said:

I think it really depends on your local planning lot ( or neighbours that might drop you in it) if you were just to clear the brambles etc and perhaps level the site what can they do?, even if they "caught you" just apologise say you didn't realise " gardening" was classed as development, by the time they get round to writing to you it will be January anyway ?

 

My thoughts exactly. What I propose is essentially tidying up and removing all the vegetation from the site. I dont see my neighbours complaning about either, they keep on asking me when I will start  Cant think of anybody bothering on xmas period!

 

5 minutes ago, Ferdinand said:

I think it is a movable feast, but you could get away with quite a lot.

 

I don't see how a bit of pruning and tidying ;-) on your land cold be development.

 

The one thing to watch iirc is that you have your exemption from CiL: irreversibly locked in, as I believe some have had problems.

 

Ferdinand

 

Ferdinand, I missed the bit re CiL, care to explain

[joe90]

As some of you will know I have been fighting for planning for two and a half years ( and finally won?) But throughout that time I have been shifting earth, clearing rubbish, trimming trees and clearing ditches DESPITE a horrible neighbour that phoned the enforcement officer every time I started the JCB up. In the end I used to message the enforcement officer explaining every little thing I was doing. He never stopped me and told me my neighbour was a pain in his ass.

[Ferdinand]

Just now, hmpmarketing said:

Thanks guys for the replies :-)

 

 

My thoughts exactly. What I propose is essentially tidying up and removing all the vegetation from the site. I dont see my neighbours complaning about either, they keep on asking me when I will start  Cant think of anybody bothering on xmas period!

 

 

Ferdinand, I missed the bit re CiL, care to explain

 

That needs somebody else who has direct experience such as perhaps @MikeSharp01 or @Temp, but the issue was mentioned on this thread:

 

I think I have seen mention somewhere of issues about this on occasions.

 

Also see this article:

http://www.planningresource.co.uk/article/1389099/inspector-dismisses-request-self-build-cil-exemption

 

ie Make sure you have your exemption letter.

 

Ferdinand

[Temp]

+1 about the CIL don't risk loosing the exemption.

 

The definition of "starting" is in Section 56(4) of the Town and Country Planning Act 1990 which says..

 

 “development is taken to be begun on the earliest date on which a material operation is carried out”. 

 

A material operation is defined as any works of construction, demolition, digging foundations, laying out or constructing a road or a change in the use of the land.

 

So it would be easy for them to decide you have started and are therefore in breach of the condition and perhaps are no longer eligible for the CIL exemption.

 

However if the boot was on the other foot and you actually wanted to "start" in order to extend a Planning Permission that was about to expire, then they will say that you haven't started unless a) the work matches what was approved exactly and b) you have got any planning conditions that say "Before work starts..." formally discharged.

 

It seems the definition of starting is such that it always benefits the council.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited December 7, 2016 by Temp

[Temp]

CIL Exemption claim form..

https://ecab.planningportal.co.uk/uploads/1app/forms/form_7_self_build_part_1_exemption_claim.pdf

"An exemption for a self build home must be granted prior to the commencement of the development AND a Commencement (of development) Notice must be received by the Charging/Collecting Authority prior to the date of commencement of the development. The applicant will otherwise be liable for the full levy charge.

 

So before starting you must apply for the CIL exemption, have it granted and send them a notice of commencement. I suggest you also wait for them to acknowledge receipt of the latter.

[hmpmarketing]

@Temp Thanks for your input. I am actually confused by this, is is any related to S106? As far as I know, I have had no knowledge of CIL on my planning app!

[hmpmarketing]

@Temp FYI, my consultant has told me that  Arun (local LA) dont have CIL in place yet so still on S106 agreements….

Edited December 7, 2016 by hmpmarketing

[Ferdinand]

I think that when CiL came in S106 was restricted in scope to more local matters more directly related to the site than it was before. That restriction may still apply even if your Council have not implemented CiL (mine haven't either) - @Sensus would perhaps know - so you may be able to question peripheral things if you *really* want to, but it may not be worth it.

 

eg My (housing estate site) PP had a sum in the unilateral decaration (which is like a S106 but does not require council signature) for improving the market place in the local town, which would perhaps be questionable now were it in a S106. We used a Unilateral purely to get an Application in quickly and did it exactly in line with the local Council's policy to avoid objection on that ground.

 

Ferdinand

Edited December 7, 2016 by Ferdinand

[PeterW]

1 hour ago, Temp said:

CIL Exemption claim form..

https://ecab.planningportal.co.uk/uploads/1app/forms/form_7_self_build_part_1_exemption_claim.pdf

 

 

 

So before starting you must apply for the CIL exemption, have it granted and send them a notice of commencement. I suggest you also wait for them to acknowledge receipt of the latter.

 

I had to get round this as I wanted to connect the power before we had the sign off for the conditions so wrote to the council saying it was "unclear what commencement of development was" but the work we were doing was to the EXISTING property and not related to the development as the last thing I wanted was a neighbour saying we had started when we hadn't !

 

They were fine with this and issued the CIL exemption and sign off without question

 

 

[hmpmarketing]

Thanks for the feedback guys. When I thought I was ready to get started everything stands to a halt again.

 

I will discuss with my groundworks guy, if we can get a head-start by "tidying up the garden" then I will risk it,  as I don't want to delay things any further (my timber frame delivery is scheduled to beginning of March)

 

@PeterW so I assume any connection of services could be defined as starting development? (only asking since I want to get water meter box installed as we need for concrete!)

Edited December 7, 2016 by hmpmarketing

[PeterW]

Water is going to need opening the road for you isn't it..? May be worth getting the drain connection done at the same time as you will be doing a road twice otherwise. 

 

Can you not borrow a hose connection from a friendly neighbour until the proper connections are done ..?

[hmpmarketing]

16 minutes ago, PeterW said:

Water is going to need opening the road for you isn't it..? May be worth getting the drain connection done at the same time as you will be doing a road twice otherwise. 

 

Can you not borrow a hose connection from a friendly neighbour until the proper connections are done ..?

 

Yes water and sewer,

 

Thats one option, I think I may have to do work out something with my neighbour luckily they are very friendly  

[MikeSharp01]

Our experience was that an internal process in the council triggered the start of the development. We are not subject to CIL, at least the council have not mentioned it and we are a redevelopment that does not add more than 100SqM so should not be. However if we were seeking exemption then our experience tells us that if you go for a demolition order even if you do not intend to demolish immediately the act of getting a demolition order puts your project onto the commenced list. We them got an immediate stop order from enforcement  because we had not closed our finish materials condition. We fought the stop and they agreed we had not started all the work we had done was classed as preparation so the order was lifted. Suspect that there are a number of such triggers. 

[nod]

21 hours ago, hmpmarketing said:

Hello all,

 

Really frustrated at the moment as I missed out on one little thing that is now delaying start of groundworks! 

 

There is one condition on my planning application that states:

 

• "Development shall not commence until full details of the proposed surface water drainage scheme have been submitted to and approved in writing by the Local Planning Authority."

 

I enquired with my case officer regarding this (about 12-14 days ago I did apply to discharge this condition), however due to workload, my case officer has stated that he will only be able to write the report and decision in January!!!

 

So I asked him again what is the actual definition of "development", and if I could somehow seek permission to at least start clearing the site (clearing brambles, levelling, etc). not foundation work or trenches.

 

He says he is not able to answer this and that I should seek advice of a planning consultant in this particular query.

 

Can anybody give me some feedback of what exactly "Development" means from their point of view, and if if I am allowed to do anything or should I just wait?

 

Thanks again everyone!

 

I was in exactly the same position six weeks ago.  Too busy to write a report or send an email.  I followed all the rules and waited patiently. Nothing.

 

Change of tack - rang twice per day for four days.  On the fifth he told me that had issued the notice and not to call again

 

Someone on here I can't remember who pointed out that it is a power trip playing with peoples lives

 

I'm inclined to agree

[Temp]

Going off track briefly.... there are restrictions on what new S106 councils can demand. They are only allowed to demand 5 for the same reason - so if they have already demanded 5 people contribute to the local playground they can't demand any more do so. That's 5 backdated several years so in some cases the 5 has already been exceeded. The gov did this to encourage councils to move to the CIL.

[ToughButterCup]

10 hours ago, Sensus said:

[...]

I'd also observe that most developers I've worked for would happily take a 'so sue me!' approach to this sort of thing:

[...]

 

 

Slowly, oh so slowly that's where I've got to. 

 

To be kind to planners: I'm sure that a very robust approach by the developer  is a reasonable response to the system overload. Most planners won't or don't care. And the vast majority of Enforcement Departments are very likely to be overloaded.

To be unkind to planners' bosses; there is very little excuse for managing success so poorly.

 

Those, however, who test the edges of illegal development - it's not unknown in Lancashire - make for much  righteous indignation in Parish Councils, but good pub badinage.

 

[ProDave]

Reading this thread just shows how awkward some planning departments are.

 

I had a number of pre commencement conditions and these were just dealt with by email with my planning officer. No long delays, no fee, and no need to "submit" my solutions formally. At the end I got an email, followed up by a letter in the post saying the pre commencment conditions had been discharged. Oh so simple.

 

I then had to notify them when I "started" the development. I queried what constitutes "starting" and it was simple. condition 1 of my PP said I must create the tarmac entrance from the road before any building begins, so when I started work on that entrance, I had "started" the development and had to notify them.

 

It wasn't relevant to me as I was proceeding with the build immediately, but it would appear that just making the entrance and "starting" would have been enough to lock in the PP if I had intended a long delay before actually building.

 

[hmpmarketing]

Nice information from you all. 

 

My groundworks guy suggested we start after condition is discharged, as getting the drive base in the soakaway and ducting would need to go in at the same time, and that may be looked upon as starting work. Although I am sure I would not get any enforcement action or neighbour complaints (people are eager we start as the site has been neglected for years) who knows if the LA gets nosey and decides to keep a look!

[hmpmarketing]

23 hours ago, ProDave said:

 

I had a number of pre commencement conditions and these were just dealt with by email with my planning officer. No long delays, no fee, and no need to "submit" my solutions formally. At the end I got an email, followed up by a letter in the post saying the pre commencment conditions had been discharged. Oh so simple.

 

I wish it was that easy with my LA!

[mvincentd]

@hmpmarketingI just queried CIL exemption with my LPA pointing out my permission makes no mention of CIL....they said "There would be no CIL requirement for this proposal. You need take no further action."

 

I then queried how I would discharge ALL my conditions BEFORE 'commencing' (a very emphasized condition of my PP) given there's no entrance to my site through which I can bring machinery to dig trial pits (needed to be able to discharge certain conditions).  They said "You can discharge the highway conditions now before any others" which is helpful as I can now make an entrance....but very confusingly contradictory, plus it suggests they won't see making the entrance as commencement.

[Temp]

+1

 

Normally some say "before starting" and some say "before occupation".