Bitpipe Posted November 2, 2016 Share Posted November 2, 2016 Just made it - we don't have a huge amount of solar PV and it's quite a large house, personally I think we'll have much lower space heating costs but the assessor assumed a 40 degree water temp for the UFH circuit. Anyway, I'll take it - means we get our Ecology discount for the next year of the mortgage! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barney12 Posted November 2, 2016 Share Posted November 2, 2016 Nice! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bitpipe Posted November 2, 2016 Author Share Posted November 2, 2016 Found this interesting stat - bit old (end June 2014) but still relevant. http://www.lcea.co.uk/epc-ratings-explained/ EPC percentage splits for Domestic EPCs asset / band Ratings Domestic Energy Performance Certificates (EPCs) lodged on the UK Government’s Register by Energy Efficiency Rating which fall into each A to G asset / band ratings: – A 0.09% B 8.39% C 27.68% D 38.70% E 18.43% F 5.20% G 1.51% N/A 0.004%2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey_1980 Posted November 2, 2016 Share Posted November 2, 2016 Well done, ecology are pretty quick at applying the discount, we had our letter in the post within 48 hours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barney12 Posted November 2, 2016 Share Posted November 2, 2016 14 minutes ago, Bitpipe said: Found this interesting stat - bit old (end June 2014) but still relevant. http://www.lcea.co.uk/epc-ratings-explained/ EPC percentage splits for Domestic EPCs asset / band Ratings Domestic Energy Performance Certificates (EPCs) lodged on the UK Government’s Register by Energy Efficiency Rating which fall into each A to G asset / band ratings: – A 0.09% B 8.39% C 27.68% D 38.70% E 18.43% F 5.20% G 1.51% N/A 0.004%2 I doubt it has improved much from then! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trw144 Posted November 2, 2016 Share Posted November 2, 2016 We ve just got an 89 - B. I might be wrong but I think you basically need PV to get into the 90's. Main thing is it predicts my heating costs at 5000kwh a year so I d be happy with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey_1980 Posted November 2, 2016 Share Posted November 2, 2016 We scored 92 with no PV, it was the Ecocent for heating water that gave us the extra points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trw144 Posted November 2, 2016 Share Posted November 2, 2016 Well that blows my theory Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jack Posted November 2, 2016 Share Posted November 2, 2016 Speaking of squeaking in: Having 8.5kW of PV didn't hurt, and the shower waste water recovery probably helped a bit too. From memory, we'd have done slightly better if we'd had full modelling of the wall and roof structures, and the 3G windows. We were in a tearing hurry to get our FITs application submitted before the rate dropped again, so couldn't wait to figure out better values and had to use default ones instead. I think our electricity bill will be of the order of £800-900 for the first year. Not bad for a large family home, especially given I made absolutely no effort during this year to optimise anything. Not sure about the FITs payment, but it must come close to rendering us cash neutral over the year. The very experienced guy who did it said he'd never had a higher number, which was lovely to hear! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bitpipe Posted November 2, 2016 Author Share Posted November 2, 2016 Now you're just showing off Jack Agree that the modelling could be improved, we were in a similar position trying to get any kind of EPC ahead of the FIT cliff last Jan. Still, no-one's beat Jeremy's 106 rating yet! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferdinand Posted November 3, 2016 Share Posted November 3, 2016 (edited) Is there any good guide to "evidencing" and "assuming" around? I can see this being a problem in the future. eg I have just had an end wall in a rental boarded out inside while a T was redecorating with 50mm Kingspan (small room :-o ) in addition to the 25mm PUR that was already there. But of course I cannot prove it, and in a few years time rentals will have to be E (2018) then D (2025) then C (2030) on pain of prosecution iirc. I wonder if they will be equipped with thermal cameras and checking 20 year old invoices and contemporaneous photographs which will have to be notarised ? ! What will happen is that the process will be driven only by things that can be proven on the spot, which will read through to what people actually do. My own scores 77 but there is no reason to repeat the cert to demonstrate improvements, though the 77 assumes on some walls and excludes the underfloor insulation - while accepting that there is UFH, unless the contribution of solar will be devalued and I want the max EPC boost from my PV array. Ferdinand Edited November 3, 2016 by Ferdinand Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ADLIan Posted November 3, 2016 Share Posted November 3, 2016 Hi Info on SAP (new build houses) and rdSAP (existing houses) is available from the BRE website - full SAP/rdSAP guide and conventions for both schemes can be downloaded. Re SAP ratings - this is based on fuel cost so choice of fuel will have a big impact as will space/water heating system efficiency. Fuel costs are given in Table 12 of SAP 2012. Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bitpipe Posted November 3, 2016 Author Share Posted November 3, 2016 1 hour ago, Ferdinand said: Is there any good guide to "evidencing" and "assuming" around? I can see this being a problem in the future. eg I have just had an end wall in a rental boarded out inside while a T was redecorating with 50mm Kingspan (small room :-o ) in addition to the 25mm PUR that was already there. But of course I cannot prove it, and in a few years time rentals will have to be E (2018) then D (2025) then C (2030) on pain of prosecution iirc. I wonder if they will be equipped with thermal cameras and checking 20 year old invoices and contemporaneous photographs which will have to be notarised ? ! What will happen is that the process will be driven only by things that can be proven on the spot, which will read through to what people actually do. My own scores 77 but there is no reason to repeat the cert to demonstrate improvements, though the 77 assumes on some walls and excludes the underfloor insulation - while accepting that there is UFH, unless the contribution of solar will be devalued and I want the max EPC boost from my PV array. Ferdinand That's a good point, but really how few people care when buying a new home? For me, the main driver was 1) to get the FIT before it collapsed and b) to get the Ecology mge discount for the next year. Nothing in the SAP scheme influenced me to do anything different than I was already planning - it was just a question of getting credit for decisions already taken. That said, if I ever come to sell, I'll get a 4m high sticker made up of my SAP rating and apply it to the side of the house like a new fridge... 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferdinand Posted November 3, 2016 Share Posted November 3, 2016 (edited) @Bitpipe Thanks. I think that illustrates that we all will be driven primarily by the concrete and financial consequences of any rules. I predict that the values of trad small terraced houses will take a major hit some time before 2030 (say 10k or 10-15%) relative to a fully done-up one, as these can get to a D reasonably easily (I normally do that and it does not need exceptional changes), but will require something like EWI to reach a C. Unless the exceptions to the requirement are generous. Cheers. F Edited November 3, 2016 by Ferdinand Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gravelld Posted November 3, 2016 Share Posted November 3, 2016 The space heating cost estimates still seem quite high on these - is that because of SAP's blind spot to higher performance houses? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trw144 Posted November 3, 2016 Share Posted November 3, 2016 4 hours ago, gravelld said: The space heating cost estimates still seem quite high on these - is that because of SAP's blind spot to higher performance houses? I thought the same. On mine, £1488 over 3 years does nt stack up with 5000 kWh per year, on a modern gas (mains) boiler. That's roughly 10p/kWh which is way off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteamyTea Posted November 3, 2016 Share Posted November 3, 2016 3 minutes ago, Trw144 said: £1488 over 3 years does nt stack up with 5000 kWh per year About what I currently pay on Day Rate and E7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trw144 Posted November 3, 2016 Share Posted November 3, 2016 The sap table I have just found (dated October 13) shows mains gas at 3.48p/kWh and standing charge of £120 per year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trw144 Posted November 3, 2016 Share Posted November 3, 2016 3 hours ago, Trw144 said: The sap table I have just found (dated October 13) shows mains gas at 3.48p/kWh and standing charge of £120 per year. Can anyone shed any light on this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterW Posted November 3, 2016 Share Posted November 3, 2016 I'd expect like most govt or other "standards" to allow for comparison a baseline is used. The Council Tax bandings are a good example where the price refers to the "value in year xx" and in SAP I expect they baselined energy cost at some point so there is a reference value. That means the EPC is now of course worth slightly less than the paper it's printed on .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trw144 Posted November 3, 2016 Share Posted November 3, 2016 Yep. Just did a price comparison and best deal is standing charge of 16p a day and gas at 2.6p/kWh, so way off epc figures Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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