KTCastle Posted December 9, 2019 Share Posted December 9, 2019 Community Infrastructure Levy - Self Build I’m interested to hear from anyone in a similar situation... We’ve made an expensive mistake during our self build and not ensured a CIL Commencement Notice was received by our local council. Last week we received a letter explaining that our CIL exemption had been removed and an immediate payment of nearly £12,000 is required. No option to appeal no discussion!!!! Our application was March 2016 so we don’t fall under the new legislation which sets a 20% fine instead of full liability. I’m desperate to find a way out of this but keep hitting a brick wall. Any advice welcome ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony C Posted December 9, 2019 Share Posted December 9, 2019 https://www.burges-salmon.com/news-and-insight/legal-updates/failure-to-serve-a-cil-notice-recent-lessons-learned-from-the-high-court/ This is similar to your case which went high court, unfortunate the result is not on your side... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterW Posted December 9, 2019 Share Posted December 9, 2019 How did you submit the commencement notice ..? Some councils don’t issue a confirmation so it would be interesting to see how they are saying it has only come to light now ..? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonshine Posted December 9, 2019 Share Posted December 9, 2019 59 minutes ago, KTCastle said: Our application was March 2016 so we don’t fall under the new legislation which sets a 20% fine instead of full liability. i wasn't aware of this. i can't help with your situation, but thanks for highlighting it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jilly Posted December 9, 2019 Share Posted December 9, 2019 OMG, poor you. My planning permission did not mentioned CIL payment, but I sent the paperwork in anyway and haven't heard anything back. I will sit tight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gc100 Posted December 9, 2019 Share Posted December 9, 2019 17 minutes ago, Jilly said: OMG, poor you. My planning permission did not mentioned CIL payment, but I sent the paperwork in anyway and haven't heard anything back. I will sit tight. You should get a confirmation letter/email back. We made sure we had it, as there was a case where someone had notified the LPA but didnt get a confirmation and they ended up paying the full CIL. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KTCastle Posted December 9, 2019 Author Share Posted December 9, 2019 3 hours ago, PeterW said: How did you submit the commencement notice ..? Some councils don’t issue a confirmation so it would be interesting to see how they are saying it has only come to light now ..? I posted the form but didn’t get it recorded delivery, so no proof my end. Unfortunately being consumed with the start of the build and looking after a four month old in a caravan I didn’t check they had received it ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KTCastle Posted December 9, 2019 Author Share Posted December 9, 2019 3 hours ago, Tony C said: https://www.burges-salmon.com/news-and-insight/legal-updates/failure-to-serve-a-cil-notice-recent-lessons-learned-from-the-high-court/ This is similar to your case which went high court, unfortunate the result is not on your side... Thanks interesting read. I’m losing hope with my case, CIL is a very tightly run regime with no humanity ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newhome Posted December 9, 2019 Share Posted December 9, 2019 2 hours ago, KTCastle said: Thanks interesting read. I’m losing hope with my case, CIL is a very tightly run regime with no humanity ? Oh dear, I’m really sorry. I’m afraid there is no humanity at all in any of these schemes. There are a number of threads containing warnings to follow the exemption process to the letter within this forum but sadly it seems that you only just found us. The process did change on 1st September 2019 to implement a surcharge instead of losing the exemption completely and it’s still an expensive mistake but not quite as bad as losing the full exemption. Can you go back and ask that they double check the incoming post records to confirm that they didn’t receive your form as you sent it on XX date? Might be grasping at straws but it’s worth a shot. Again, I’m really sorry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bassanclan Posted December 9, 2019 Share Posted December 9, 2019 Assuming you havent completed the build, what happens if you change the design of the build slightly and apply for a whole new planning permission scheme then apply for exemption? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferdinand Posted December 9, 2019 Share Posted December 9, 2019 (edited) 2 hours ago, KTCastle said: I posted the form but didn’t get it recorded delivery, so no proof my end. Unfortunately being consumed with the start of the build and looking after a four month old in a caravan I didn’t check they had received it ? In such a case I thought a Statement of Truth should be acceptable proof in eg a court unless someone swears to the contrary. I think there are rules about deemed delivery. Needs a check with an authority. Ferdinand Edited December 9, 2019 by Ferdinand Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KTCastle Posted December 9, 2019 Author Share Posted December 9, 2019 7 hours ago, newhome said: Oh dear, I’m really sorry. I’m afraid there is no humanity at all in any of these schemes. There are a number of threads containing warnings to follow the exemption process to the letter within this forum but sadly it seems that you only just found us. The process did change on 1st September 2019 to implement a surcharge instead of losing the exemption completely and it’s still an expensive mistake but not quite as bad as losing the full exemption. Can you go back and ask that they double check the incoming post records to confirm that they didn’t receive your form as you sent it on XX date? Might be grasping at straws but it’s worth a shot. Again, I’m really sorry. Thanks yes I tried to get them to double check records and they assured me they had a robust post system! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam2 Posted December 10, 2019 Share Posted December 10, 2019 12 hours ago, bassanclan said: Assuming you havent completed the build, what happens if you change the design of the build slightly and apply for a whole new planning permission scheme then apply for exemption? It depends - I understand from my architect that the risk (only applies to a knock-down) is that CIL is generally the increase is sqm and if you start demolition then do a new planning app you may have 0 sqm so CIL would be significant as would be based on total sqm - though if process followed correctly still avoidable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newhome Posted December 10, 2019 Share Posted December 10, 2019 20 hours ago, bassanclan said: Assuming you havent completed the build, what happens if you change the design of the build slightly and apply for a whole new planning permission scheme then apply for exemption? You may inadvertently affect the VAT claim if you do that. HMRC check the validity of the PP when you apply for the reclaim and personally I wouldn’t want to risk that coming under challenge. If the PP was only valid from a new date they may object to invoices being from before that date. You just never know with HMRC so better not to rattle that particular cage IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferdinand Posted December 10, 2019 Share Posted December 10, 2019 (edited) 20 hours ago, bassanclan said: Assuming you havent completed the build, what happens if you change the design of the build slightly and apply for a whole new planning permission scheme then apply for exemption? I don't see that changing anything - the original PP has still been started before CiL Exemption was confirmed, and therefore will still apply. I do not see how reality can be changed retrospectively. That surely is why a retrospective Certificate of Lawful Development is actually merely an admission that enforcement is not possible due to elapsed time rather than a full PP. One could argue that the exemption applies to the new elements, but I do not see that being accepted as a valid PP - the correct route would be a variation. Very nebulous, imo and I think the first charge would continue to apply anyway. Ferdinand Edited December 10, 2019 by Ferdinand Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KTCastle Posted December 10, 2019 Author Share Posted December 10, 2019 Reply from council - A new application would be considered as being a retrospective application as works would have already (at least in part) commenced on the new application sought. In these instances, the CIL amount would be due on the day the permission is granted and no exemption could be considered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bassanclan Posted December 10, 2019 Share Posted December 10, 2019 Yes I think that was a bit of a long shot. Maybe your best bet would be the argument tge police use whwn sending out Notice of intended prosecution letters (speeding tickets), which allow them to assume something posted 1st class is delivered two working days later, unless it can be proved otherwise. Not sure if the reverse applies to Joe blogs or if one the police get this benefit of the doubt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferdinand Posted December 10, 2019 Share Posted December 10, 2019 There is stuff in the Civil Procedure Rules about this - related to service of notice etc. https://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/procedure-rules/civil/rules/part06 But it would need to be established that this or similar law / rules applies, and it would be several stages beyond the current place you are in the arguments. So I post for completeness. F Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triassic Posted December 11, 2019 Share Posted December 11, 2019 (edited) Wasn’t CIL implemented on different dates by different councils. I've checked my records and i also didn’t receive confirmation of receipt of CIL. I have a note in my diary for a phone call to the council, I noted that the person I talked to had no idea what CIL was, I foolishly never followed it up. I have no desire to follow things up at this stage! How do we lobby for simplification of the rules to make it more human? Edited December 11, 2019 by Triassic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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