Zoot EXTention- now.

[zoothorn]

On 18/12/2019 at 16:35, Bitpipe said:

 

Same with me - all our glazing is 3G passive standard which means it's doing the job.

 

Remember as a kid chipping ice off the inside of the single glazing at home in winter

 

 

 

Thing is these are not north facing. Opposite: the corner of the two sides (I have these new windows/ doors on only 2 sides of the extensions' three sides).. is south facing, & at this time of year have sun all PM on the doors & sun sets fully on them: but still obscured by condensation.

 

If they were north facing.. Id jump on this as cause.

[zoothorn]

Ok I have a number of things to tie up before the wretched builder is gone (let alone what's on the final bill, 1/3rd overall cost).

 

1) the galvanised lintels (3 of) I mentioned to him I was unhappy about seeing one bowing when built (not supported in middle/ alot of block weight above one in particular bowing the most), have been left as is after rendering around. They're lintels visible/ not covered over by render. It was mentioned on here not to worry as will be rendered over anyway, so reassured by this I didn't press builder harder.. & waited.

 

When I quizzed builder as they were made & noticeably bowing he said "oh fine" (walking off in a huff), & later "will be covered/ rendered over anyway so don't see it" when I asked again about them being seen (hoodwinking me, yet again). When renderer said "all done" & I quizzed lintels, he said "was not aked to do".. & off he went. He also said "its not that they can't be done, just I was not asked to do" (implying its bit of a tricky job).

 

So its not a Q of getting builder to come back & finish off (which he won't, refusing it was ever mentioned they'd be covered/ lying).. its a Q of what should I expect, as a client (not having the finer details of a "render job" broken down into specific minutiae, doors, windows, reveals, the constitution of the mix, the depth of finish.. because I'm a client & as such I expect certain things like roof batons, nails fixing my tiles down to them for eg without it being specifically written down they are to be included).

[zoothorn]

Can anyone help here. I have been quoted for rendering. Its been done, but the galvanised lintels (undersides of) have been left un-rendered.

 

The advise on here (when I quizzed the lintels bowing, clearly under too much weight above & not supported in midpoints whilst cured it seems) was that I shouldn't worry as they'll be covered by render anyway so the bow not visible.

 

The plasterer has not rendered them/ the lintel undersides are exposed. He said its not that they cannot be done, just that he was not told to do them by the builder. I could not tell him just to do them please, as he was not the builder.

 

On the estimate "render to exposed galvanised lintel undersides" was not put on (& I would not have expected such fine detail to be put on either).

 

So what I should expect as a client-?

[PeterW]

You render the face of the lintel, you can paint under it if you want but they don’t normally get rendered. 

[zoothorn]

17 hours ago, PeterW said:

You render the face of the lintel, you can paint under it if you want but they don’t normally get rendered. 

 

 

Ah hi PeterW, but previous posts just said the lintel bow (i was 1st worried about) "not to worry you won't see it/ will be rendered over". So just the face then.. but the bow is as prominent as before (& galv undersides do look unfinished & 'raw').

 

Anyway another Q if I can: what are my insulation options in ceiling of lower floor? (IE the timber frame dividing floor, many wood joists the sides of each one strengthened by alu 'zzz' shaped brackets).

 

Assuming this dividing floor is the least-insulating section of the two rooms (I think this is what the BCO said) I know I can go typical orange loft stuff up in these ~10" gaps. But as I'm concerned with noise from this lower room going UP & out the roof (noisy router for eg) would this "sound rockwool" slab stuff be an good option?

 

 

[jfb]

Have you done a search on this forum for acoustic insulation or soundproofing? I would have thought that would be the place to start.

[andyscotland]

Fairly sure that there is a minimum requirement for sound insulation between floors (under building regs) so this is probably a detail you need to agree with your builder/BCO

[PeterW]

1 hour ago, zoothorn said:

 

 

Ah hi PeterW, but previous posts just said the lintel bow (i was 1st worried about) "not to worry you won't see it/ will be rendered over". So just the face then.. but the bow is as prominent as before (& galv undersides do look unfinished & 'raw').

 

Anyway another Q if I can: what are my insulation options in ceiling of lower floor? (IE the timber frame dividing floor, many wood joists the sides of each one strengthened by alu 'zzz' shaped brackets).

 

Assuming this dividing floor is the least-insulating section of the two rooms (I think this is what the BCO said) I know I can go typical orange loft stuff up in these ~10" gaps. But as I'm concerned with noise from this lower room going UP & out the roof (noisy router for eg) would this "sound rockwool" slab stuff be an good option?

 

 

Sound isn’t your problem here - you need proper insulation as below is an unheated space. It will need PIR of 130-140mm plus the remainder filled with a sound insulation such as a Rockwool batt at 80-100mm. 
 

Odd question though, if you’re the only one there, you won’t hear the sound ..???? You can only be in one room at once ..???

 

On the lintel, I would have expected the guy rendering to run the bead horizontal and make the bow less noticeable. 

[Declan52]

Bond a strip of plasterboard to the underside. Then fill the front edge to form a straight clean edge. 

[PeterW]

14 minutes ago, Declan52 said:

Bond a strip of plasterboard to the underside. Then fill the front edge to form a straight clean edge. 

Would need to be cement board as it’s external, but yes you could do that. 

[Declan52]

Just now, PeterW said:

Would need to be cement board as it’s external, but yes you could do that. 

I thought it was on the inside!!!

[Onoff]

1 hour ago, PeterW said:

Odd question though, if you’re the only one there, you won’t hear the sound ..???? You can only be in one room at once ..???

 

 

His neighbours complain ref his woodworking router noise I think?

[Declan52]

11 minutes ago, Onoff said:

 

His neighbours complain ref his woodworking router noise I think?

I would draw a big middle finger on the condensation on the window and make even more noise. 

[zoothorn]

1 hour ago, PeterW said:

Sound isn’t your problem here - you need proper insulation as below is an unheated space. It will need PIR of 130-140mm plus the remainder filled with a sound insulation such as a Rockwool batt at 80-100mm. 
 

Odd question though, if you’re the only one there, you won’t hear the sound ..???? You can only be in one room at once ..???

 

On the lintel, I would have expected the guy rendering to run the bead horizontal and make the bow less noticeable. 

 

Hi Peter- no the BCO said just normal orange stuff to go in this dividing floor.

 

What I want to do is instead, if I can (if X stuff is feasable to use here) is maybe use the rockwool acoustic slab stuff instead.

 

The reason why I want max sound insulation here, is this dividing floor > & up out the roof (std 2 rolls of std orange stuff laid perpendicuilar & pB ceiling DONE in upper room by builder) is the weak point of sound leaking out.. because I'll have 140mm of insulation in timber frame walls & pb'd over + block outer course + thick render: so some sound retention here, but little in this 'lid' on lower room.

 

Yes as Onoff said I have 2 couples of awful bullying neighbours who complain (to bully me not bc likely to get results) about everything they can think of sending police visits, xy & z council dept visits relentlessly over 3 years now. The sound I'll make via a router & dust extractor (albeit only 1.5hrs/ day) will mean fuel for both couples to complain again & harder, especially if its work-related. So I need to do as much as I can to subdue the sound. Walls 140mm rigid insulation (before jan £ hike) delivered today.

 

thanks- zoot

[zoothorn]

17 minutes ago, Declan52 said:

I would draw a big middle finger on the condensation on the window and make even more noise. 

 

Love to. By god they deserve it SO much too. But it'll only excacerbate & mean even more council visits, possibly tools taken away & my work room curtailed. I want to make it as useless-as-possible-an-excercise for them to complain.. so when council visit next time (100% definite soon) they hopefully dismiss the complaint, fingers crossed once & for all.

[Onoff]

If you are boarding out inside then you could could use the blue, sound block plasterboard. It's a bit thicker and heavier than the normal stuff. 

[PeterW]

1 hour ago, Onoff said:

 

His neighbours complain ref his woodworking router noise I think?

But the noise will make its way the most direct route ... which is windows and gaps around doors. 
 

Sound insulation between the floors will be irrelevant. I’d lay heavy acoustic rubber mat on the upper floor before putting flooring down.  

[zoothorn]

1 hour ago, Onoff said:

If you are boarding out inside then you could could use the blue, sound block plasterboard. It's a bit thicker and heavier than the normal stuff. 

 

Damn.. one thing I don't have is room H (bc builder lied & said 2.5m gonna happen in lower room.. & I end up with 2.05m) so cannot do more than std 12.5mm pB.

[Onoff]

Just now, zoothorn said:

 

Damn.. one thing I don't have is room H (bc builder lied & said 2.5m gonna happen in lower room.. & I end up with 2.05m) so cannot do more than std 12.5mm pB.

 

Sound block board is 15/16mm. You'd lose 5 - 7mm. 

 

You can btw get sound absorbing/ deadening curtains. 

[zoothorn]

7 minutes ago, PeterW said:

But the noise will make its way the most direct route ... which is windows and gaps around doors. 
 

Sound insulation between the floors will be irrelevant. I’d lay heavy acoustic rubber mat on the upper floor before putting flooring down.  

 

 Understood.. which is why there are no windows or doors n'bors side/ a blank rendered wall.

[zoothorn]

1 minute ago, Onoff said:

 

Sound block board is 15/16mm. You'd lose 5 - 7mm. 

 

You can btw get sound absorbing/ deadening curtains. 

 

Ok will consider.. but surely before this outer layer I can help things with regard to the load of insulation I have to put in here- this is really the only thing I'm asking about, especially relevant if I hear of "sound acoustic rockwool" which is very basically presumably the orange stuff just alot denser.

[Gone West]

3 hours ago, zoothorn said:

especially relevant if I hear of "sound acoustic rockwool" which is very basically presumably the orange stuff just alot denser.

I used Rockwool RW6 as EWI on my house for it's acoustic and thermal insulation qualities. It's a rigid board though and won't behave like the 'orange stuff'.

 

https://www.rockwool.co.uk/product-overview/slab-products/rw6-en-gb/?selectedCat=downloads

Edited December 23, 2019 by PeterStarck
Added link

[zoothorn]

48 minutes ago, PeterStarck said:

I used Rockwool RW6 as EWI on my house for it's acoustic and thermal insulation qualities. It's a rigid board though and won't behave like the 'orange stuff'.

 

https://www.rockwool.co.uk/product-overview/slab-products/rw6-en-gb/?selectedCat=downloads

 

Maybe this is the stuff I was thinking of- the pic on the page tho looks like a slab type which could be prized apart (& stuffed within the alu zzz shaped joists maybe) it just looks like a much denser rockwool. I can't think its rigid like kingspan rigid..

[zoothorn]

Ok another thing I need to clarify/ opinions please. Here is the exposed foundation 'coin' on the corner of existing white wall (just to the RHS of new door here): a big block of grey slate, below which the earth/ clay is visible (one reason I didn't want to go down this low!).

 

Is there any structural issues with this situation? should the builder have left this corner like this? I can see erosion of the soil below this block which is highly alarming, to me.

 

 

 

 

[zoothorn]

Happy New Year to all on here.

 

The builder stuff completed- bar the last "1/3rd" bill rudely promised I'd get asap [19th..] so alot depends on it as to whether I sue for damages.. but I'll leave that for now.

 

So in the meantime, at least I don't have him turning up to work woohoo!! & can now start to consider all the 'downhill' internal stuff for me (mostly I hope) to do, in my own time:

 

• Upper room: electrics, insulation, pB.
• Lower room: electrics, insulation, pB, lay floor (50mm + 22mm "Caber+" chipboard).

 

So I'll split into sections for clarity, new threads: I'd be grateful for any help & advice. Thanks, zoot.

Edited January 6, 2020 by zoothorn