Zoot's Extention- progress.

[Bitpipe]

1 minute ago, zoothorn said:

... But there is no way on earth I can put it to him to redo this- he will shut up shop, the work will stop, & I have no bargaining room on my floor (his original itemised groundwork quote, which he repated the same £figure for on the final quote but only in terms of 'groundwork' leaving off the itemised details.. it was clear the details already listed before, & no need to repeat.. that was the clear as day implication), & he'll go back on this that & the other, like the contoured render we agreed on.. he'll just not do/ it'll be flat/ just as I don't want.

 

... All the power lies with these builders however you play it. They can just stop & not continue until you relent. 

 

You have the ultimate bargaining power - payment. Up to you if you want to use it.

 

You have two options:

 

1) Let him call the tune, and you pay up regardless of whether you're happy or not. In which case you can't keep complaining here - you've decided a path of no confrontation vs getting what you want. Now that's not necessarily the wrong path if you value avoiding confrontation above getting what you think you've paid for. For your follow on work, make sure it's nailed tight on detail and avoid any repeat occurrence.

 

2) If you believe that you have a strong case that he's not doing what he agreed to, then state that and give him the choice of making good or with-hold part / all payment until resolved. Let him take you to court if he wants. Yes he may walk off job but you will have the funds for another builder to complete the outstanding tasks. You can't let him hold that over you, otherwise you're back to 1) above.

 

When I had my basement built on an agreed price to an agreed schedule, there were still some discrepancies  - they wanted a bit more money for 'extras', I wanted a discount for a few things they skipped. While it was all matey during the build, that conversation was decidedly awkward and I didn't relish it - I don't naturally enjoy confrontation, however I stood my ground and we agreed a resolution. Attitude was able to go back to matey and get some follow on tasks completed.

 

Builders are usually fairly thick skinned individuals (whether they want to be or not), and while a small minority are outright crooked, most will turn a 'grey' situation to their advantage as I'd imagine they get screwed the other way as often.

 

In your case, mistakes have been made by his team but you chose not to go down the full plans route so there is grey in the middle and he's taking advantage. You're back to options 1 or 2 above.

 

Good luck.

 

[zoothorn]

@Bitpipe yes I understand this, but I've never been in a situation like this before. I can cut out one thing: digger skim off drive @ £400 (ridiculous, a small area & 3 hrs work), by getting n'bour to do it £150. If I lay sleepers beforehand a good step in twds the block wall I can use the earth to backfill the gap. BCO has allowed sleepers to go a bit closer.

 

I' m happy to pay £200 to 2x block & concrete exposed inside lower room area, as I was already going a step down so may have needed 1x block anyway. This will elieviate my stress re. this exposed area.

 

I have a strong case surely that the insulation (if not floor ontop too) shouldn't be added @ £445: I had an estimate on July 24 for 'groundworks' that listed the steps as mentioned including 100mm insulation last. The same figure put on the final estimate (only as 'groundworks' as were other things/ same price on the final estimate, the details of which left off final quote, having already been put on this same estimate 24/7).

 

The additional window: £more thanhe told me (£380 as opposed to £260) but I'll lump this to avoid confrontation.

 

So its the drain @ £445 I'm not happy about, nor floor/ insulation situation. So could I do these myself I wonder? plastic 100mm pipe connecting to downpipe, digging, hardcore ontop. And if he were to agree to lay the 50mm insulation included (tho he'll refuse any £rebate from the 100mm he included in quote.. I make that approx £275 he saves by going 50mm).. could I lay the floor?

[zoothorn]

Temp camera fix/ no idea how.

 

1. window lintel bow (the 1150mm W window which will be 'packed out LHS only with timber to 920mm.. whether I can solid-up this open timber area I still don't know, I got my figure wrong at 2150mm before which c*cked that question up)

 

2. Door next to it, entry to lower room

 

 

[PeterW]

Struggling to see the bow... I wouldn’t be worried 

[Declan52]

Seriously you need to take a breath and relax. You have got yourself all worked up over nothing and are only adding more stress which you can't handle. 

Strike the window bow of your list of things to confront the builder with and move on.

 

[zoothorn]

50 minutes ago, Declan52 said:

Seriously you need to take a breath and relax. You have got yourself all worked up over nothing and are only adding more stress which you can't handle. 

Strike the window bow of your list of things to confront the builder with and move on.

 

 

Ok but I will call the BCO. The mortar is just not setting here too (it is in a dark shadow below the 1st floor scaff boards) & lintel is twisted out fwd. Cosmetically once the window frame's in it will be seen won't it? I mean there's nothing to go ontop of it, is there usually?

 

@PeterW the 1st pic, if you look at the bricks.. there's a sag in the middle/ I've put a level on & the gaps L and R are 3/8" to 3/4".

 

There's a piece of ~5" slate in the mortar, on the RHS of opening (just above the lower white placcy thing) its at a bit of an angle up. If you can ID this then the lower side of it.. is on a plane of the bow's maximum = so it is pronounced/ I'm not being ott fussy here.

[Declan52]

No once the window is in and it's plastered up you won't see any of it.

In the famous words of the ice Princess Elsa just let it go. Your worrying over nothing. You have been told numerous times it's nothing to be concerned about so just file it away and move on to the next dilemma.

The piece of slate is just there to help them bed the lintel up so it sits level. No big deal. Happens every day on every site. 

[Danny68]

You've got breeze block ,so it's going to be rendered / clad  ? It will be corrected then ,On a one off let it go . In future pull em soon as you see it or change your brickie

[zoothorn]

6 minutes ago, Declan52 said:

No once the window is in and it's plastered up you won't see any of it.

In the famous words of the ice Princess Elsa just let it go. Your worrying over nothing. You have been told numerous times it's nothing to be concerned about so just file it away and move on to the next dilemma.

The piece of slate is just there to help them bed the lintel up so it sits level. No big deal. Happens every day on every site. 

 

Ok I take your points on board Declan thanks.

 

No I only mentioned the slate as a mark, to show where the bow presses down to @ maximum in the middle (the lower side of the slate = same as the bow max: you can get a thumb in there each side from here, to where the lintel rests on the L and R ledges).

[zoothorn]

8 minutes ago, Danny68 said:

You've got breeze block ,so it's going to be rendered / clad  ? It will be corrected then ,On a one off let it go . In future pull em soon as you see it or change your brickie

 

Yes it will be rendered- ok so it will be covered that's ok.. but not thrilled about this structurally, esp if a bit of wood was all that was needed.

[Declan52]

Your still clinging on for some reason trying to find a major structural fault with something which isn't an issue. For the sake of your own mental health and ours just move on. 

 

[zoothorn]

@Declan52 could I get your opinion on what I might do with this window, re. minimising the opening W? I got in a pickle before saying opening 2150mm. Its not that wide, its 1150mm.

 

The last pic above is the window. Its position & width determined by/ to coincide with vertical TFrame studs behind. I was told 'you dont have to have this wide, you can have it narrower'.. but little did I know this meant timber packing either side, or just one side as I'd prefer (symmetry reasons).. I just naturally thought 'block/ brick' pretty simple. But I can't do this apparantly & it has to be timber.

 

So we're going to minimise W to 920mm, packing the LHS. I expect the fastest way possible, wood then, but this will mean a hollow area (sound escaping).. so I want to explore ways to solidify it up prior to mesh/ plaster over.

 

Or anyone any ideas? thanks, zoot.

[zoothorn]

Frozen! I've never seen it.. prob only chap who hasn't.Ive moved on then.. but still on same window/ got this opening to remedy.

 

 

[Declan52]

23 minutes ago, zoothorn said:

@Declan52 could I get your opinion on what I might do with this window, re. minimising the opening W? I got in a pickle before saying opening 2150mm. Its not that wide, its 1150mm.

 

The last pic above is the window. Its position & width determined by/ to coincide with vertical TFrame studs behind. I was told 'you dont have to have this wide, you can have it narrower'.. but little did I know this meant timber packing either side, or just one side as I'd prefer (symmetry reasons).. I just naturally thought 'block/ brick' pretty simple. But I can't do this apparantly & it has to be timber.

 

So we're going to minimise W to 920mm, packing the LHS. I expect the fastest way possible, wood then, but this will mean a hollow area (sound escaping).. so I want to explore ways to solidify it up prior to mesh/ plaster over.

 

Or anyone any ideas? thanks, zoot.

Just leave it as it is. Why try to make it smaller by altering it when it will just be a bodge. If you use timber no matter what you do it will move different from the blocks so will crack.

It's only 200mm wider. If you go for a thicker frame uPVC 3g unit most of that extra will be ate up by the frame width so you will have the actual glass near enough what you want.

[zoothorn]

A bloody spanner in the works re. the wretched height issue. I did some detective work & found the Timber Frame Co. I phoned & expected them to confirm that the collar positions were in the lower positions (by 1 foot) due to structural reasons/ maybe a computer deemed they could not be pushed 1ft higher.

 

Not so.

 

I spoke to the very chap who came out on site, once the groundwork was done, who said he measured everything relative to the groundwork point. Yes I recall PeterW saying this was the normal way, but I didn't expect my builder to have told me lies as to the reason at this point in time.. we were 1 ft down lower than we should have been.

 

So now my -innitial- concern has manifested true. That the groundwork -was a mistake- by builder no2.. & its been covered up by main builder now landing me with costs as a direct result of this fkn inneptitude.

 

This leaves me fkn mad. And it means counter to all the replies telling me how poor my 'fag packet' plan was/ how the builder is doing all as he should/ throw your plan away its sh*t/ let him do it he knows best, shut up/ how the collar is CORRECT DUMMY.. I was actually correct, actually my plan was fine to go with should the fkn groundwork be in the right position, & I have been hoodwinked by my lying builder this extra foot was needed 'to get it all in', the collars 'not being able to go any higher' as per my plan. Total fkn lies & bllx. amazing that so many on here blindly followed along just assuming I was wrong- just absolutely amazing.

 

 

[Gone West]

26 minutes ago, zoothorn said:

Ive moved on then.. but still on same window/ got this opening to remedy.

I think you would probably lose less sound through the opening if the window is kept to the original size. You can reduce sound loss by secondary glazing or shutters.

[zoothorn]

1 minute ago, Declan52 said:

Just leave it as it is. Why try to make it smaller by altering it when it will just be a bodge. If you use timber no matter what you do it will move different from the blocks so will crack.

It's only 200mm wider. If you go for a thicker frame uPVC 3g unit most of that extra will be ate up by the frame width so you will have the actual glass near enough what you want.

 

Too late Declan, its been agreed @ 920mm. I just need to do what I can to address this timber 'packing' area that'll now happen here on the LHS.

 

If I went with a window as per this opening (I never agreed to being this large width- it was just rush/ done as its intention was only to be a blank, me to utilise it 5 yrs away not not, plaster over the blank now: the BCO suddenly wants it done now only 4 days ago) it'll be totally incongrous to the adjacent smallish cottage windows. The design is to blend in, contoured render etc.

[zoothorn]

5 minutes ago, PeterStarck said:

I think you would probably lose less sound through the opening if the window is kept to the original size. You can reduce sound loss by secondary glazing or shutters.

 

Maybe so Peter I appreciate your thoughts on it, but a decision's been made whether correct on this or not @ opening 920mm (at least it'll look more in keeping with my main cottage lower 2 windows/ same style). Window is being made.

 

So I need to consider what best I can do to this packing timber artea which will spring up in 30mins tmrw AM probably.

[Redoctober]

6 hours ago, zoothorn said:

[Mods- is there an 'ignore' function on the site?]

 

thanks zoot.

 

 

One should be careful of what one wishes for!!!

[Declan52]

You can always say you have had a rethink about the window and just want it left as is. 

[zoothorn]

1 minute ago, Declan52 said:

You can always say you have had a rethink about the window and just want it left as is. 

 

 

No alas I can't- I gave the figure final/ final after faffing about deciding, on friday > off he went to town to hand it in to be made.

 

I need to think how I can solid-up this timber packing chaps if I can (regardless of whether I've made the right window W decision- its happening).

 

Packing will be 230mm of some kind of timber structure.

[JFDIY]

24 minutes ago, Redoctober said:

7 hours ago, zoothorn said:

[Mods- is there an 'ignore' function on the site?]

 

thanks zoot.

 

 

One should be careful of what one wishes for!!!

 

Yes, it's just in the preferences;

 

 

 

 

 

I'm still here though - as it's better than eastenders. 

 

I can't see a reason other than cost that you needed the collars lower.

With more thought you could have insulated under the slab, but that's hindsight for you. I've got loads of issues on our gaff that aren't perfect, but its better to have it 50% right than 100% unbuilt, that is the only way of getting perfection in this game.

Edited November 18, 2019 by JFDIY

[zoothorn]

@JFDIY no cant find 'preferences' anywhere. please tell me how to put you on ignore?

[PeterW]

Ok - you need to ask the builder to use concrete bricks or cut down blocks to slim down BOTH SIDES OF THE OPENING, as I have a cunning plan..

 

No.1, you cannot render over timber, or it will crack. 
 

No.2, if you just get them to slim the opening by 120mm each side, then you can create an inside “splay” so that the window is equally wider both sides and it looks correct by just joining the edge of the frame to the edge of the blockwork. 

 

This will look like it was meant to be done this way. 

 

[Thedreamer]

19 minutes ago, zoothorn said:

@JFDIY wait a sec.. you spent all that time to do a 'screen capture'.. to impress buddy RO?! wow..

 

its like I'm back a primary school! and I thought you were beefy grown up builders- haha! Id take you off ignore to laugh at that

 

Nobody is trying to impress buddies/gangs, we are just working hard to get projects done, help others, learn and prehaps have a bit of banter. 

 

This attitude is terrible brings down the general feeling of forum. ?