Grooved chipboard

[willbish]

There’s very few mentions on the forum of TorBoard or any other chipboard grooved to accept UFH pipe.

 

I’m trying to decide if paying extra for TorBoard is worth the minimized installation hassle when compared to using aluminum spreader plates.

Lots of you seem to have used aluminum spreader plates but I’m imagining a difficult job pulling pipe through posi-joists as they can’t be notched. Is there an easy method?

 

This is how the pricing looks

 

22mm P5 chipboard (£7/m2) and aluminum spreader plates (£14/m2)

Vs

Torboard (£24.8/m2) plus 6mm ply on top at £4/m2.

I’m assuming pipe, fixings and everything else balances out.

 

 

My heating demand is very low, upstairs UFH isn’t really a necessity but I would prefer a fitted system rather than having to plug in electric heaters on the coldest of days.

Because of the low demand I’m also considering a ‘half arsed’ job, where I make sure a smallish area of each room is covered with spreader plates and pipe. A similar style could also be achieved with TorBoard but I would then still need to cover the entire floor with 6mm ply.

 

Any thoughts always appreciated.

[ProDave]

I suspect the issue it the heat output (watts per square metre) for a given water temperature will be lower than spreader plates as there is much less to disperse the heat.

 

But in a low energy house that is probably okay.

[PeterW]

So is TorBoard just routed out T&G P5..??

 

If you were to ignore the issue of structural integrity (!!) then you could rout your own ... D4 the the P5 to the beams, use a 10mm pipe rather than a 16mm, and then get busy with the router ..? Go perpendicular to the joists and it shouldn’t be too bad ... 

[ProDave]

If you want cheap, look at the system I used, burying the pipes in a non structural dry sand / cement screed (biscuit mix)  Downside is you have to size the joists for the extra dead load.  But in our case we had a big pile of sand left over so it was just the cost of a few bags of cement.

[willbish]

4 hours ago, PeterW said:

 

So is TorBoard just routed out T&G P5..??

 

Pretty much although it has 'prebonded heat diffusers'. I'm awaiting a sample. But I'm guessing very thin aluminium tape stuck on top.

Fortunately I'm not that concerned as my heat demand is low.

Other brands of routed chipboard recommend aluminium spreaders are pushed into the board before the pipe.

 

4 hours ago, PeterW said:

If you were to ignore the issue of structural integrity (!!) then you could rout your own ... D4 the the P5 to the beams, use a 10mm pipe rather than a 16mm, and then get busy with the router ..? Go perpendicular to the joists and it shouldn’t be too bad ..

 

I could see that turning into a massive task..

 

4 hours ago, ProDave said:

If you want cheap, look at the system I used

Joists are already in unfortunately. 

 

What was your method when laying the pipe and having to go under the joists instead of notching them?

I'm imagining this to be an awkward job that involves pulling the required length of pipe off the decoiler for each loop. Then feeding the snake through the joists being careful not to snag on the metal webs.

 

I've considered attacking the job from underneath, fixing pipe and aluminium spreaders to the underside of the P5, that'll encounter the same issue but maybe more suitable if working single handed.

Edited October 10, 2019 by willbish

[Onoff]

7 hours ago, PeterW said:

So is TorBoard just routed out T&G P5..??

 

If you were to ignore the issue of structural integrity (!!) then you could rout your own ... D4 the the P5 to the beams, use a 10mm pipe rather than a 16mm, and then get busy with the router ..? Go perpendicular to the joists and it shouldn’t be too bad ... 

 

I like that idea. I want UFH in our study area. That's 22mm p5 on 100mm joists, onto building paper onto concrete. (It's our old boot room I lined). Love the idea of routing the existing boards but I'd want to pull the floor boards up as there's only 100mm roll insulation between the joists and I would look to replace with pir. If only I'd found eBuild when I did it originally! 

 

Saying that could I put 100mm pir between 100mm joists or would I need an air gap under the boards?

 

Cheers.

[ProDave]

6 hours ago, willbish said:

 

What was your method when laying the pipe and having to go under the joists instead of notching them?

I'm imagining this to be an awkward job that involves pulling the required length of pipe off the decoiler for each loop. Then feeding the snake through the joists being careful not to snag on the metal webs.

 

I've considered attacking the job from underneath, fixing pipe and aluminium spreaders to the underside of the P5, that'll encounter the same issue but maybe more suitable if working single handed.

Very simple actually.

 

11mm OSB deck over the joists.  This is just to support the pipe and pug mix.

 

25 by 50mm battens following the lines of the joists.  These are notched where needed for pipes to pass.

 

Pipes laid between battens and pug mix added.

 

Final floor on top, in this case engineered oak boards.  The boards sit on the battens, not the pug mix, that is there just as a heat dispersant.

 

[AdamSee]

Hello

 

I've used the Torfloor produced by Omnie for the entire upstairs of my house. For a retro project its great, there were plenty of small issues with the installation of it. Such as my joists been wonky and oddly spaced. It uses only 12mm pipe, so for the bedroom it requires two loops. Because theres only 6mm between the pipes and the floor covering it heats up really fast. unlike the spreader plates which I presume would be slower as the heat has to get through a 18/22mm thick piece of chipboard. The foil diffuser is exactly as you would guess, its just a very heavy weight piece of foil tape. Flimsy enough to easily push through it, part tough enough to find its way under your finger nail and hurt. 

 

I did do one room with 9mm ply and it doesn't seem to have changed the heat output at all and the floor feels rock solid. The general installation of it was moderate, idealy, access from below makes your life much easier. 

 

Willbish, I can send you the quote i received if you want to see how much it cost. 

 

[willbish]

2 hours ago, ProDave said:

Very simple actually.

 

11mm OSB deck over the joists.  This is just to support the pipe and pug mix.

 

25 by 50mm battens following the lines of the joists.  These are notched where needed for pipes to pass.

 

Pipes laid between battens and pug mix added.

 

Final floor on top, in this case engineered oak boards.  The boards sit on the battens, not the pug mix, that is there just as a heat dispersant.

 

Thanks for the explanation. I dont have the height to build up off the joists unfortunately, (can swallow 6mm for ply) so no option other than to take the pipe under the joists.

[willbish]

1 hour ago, AdamSee said:

Hello

 

I've used the Torfloor produced by Omnie for the entire upstairs of my house. For a retro project its great, there were plenty of small issues with the installation of it. Such as my joists been wonky and oddly spaced. It uses only 12mm pipe, so for the bedroom it requires two loops. Because theres only 6mm between the pipes and the floor covering it heats up really fast. unlike the spreader plates which I presume would be slower as the heat has to get through a 18/22mm thick piece of chipboard. The foil diffuser is exactly as you would guess, its just a very heavy weight piece of foil tape. Flimsy enough to easily push through it, part tough enough to find its way under your finger nail and hurt. 

 

I did do one room with 9mm ply and it doesn't seem to have changed the heat output at all and the floor feels rock solid. The general installation of it was moderate, idealy, access from below makes your life much easier. 

 

Willbish, I can send you the quote i received if you want to see how much it cost. 

 

Hi @AdamSee

Thanks for sharing your experience. I have a quote, well two now, second is just for the board only. 

 

I think if I'm going to use it, I will go for a half and half approach. Using normal P5 chipboard around the perimeter and then TorBoard everywhere else. This might reduce the cost enough to make the extra expense justifiable and will avoid passing the pipe under the joists with the spreader plate method.

 

 

[AdamSee]

It certainly sounds like a plan. I guess that as you're having heating downstairs as well it should be just fine to localize the heating upstairs. Currently we don't have any heating downstairs and the UFH upstairs in the bedrooms is more than enough to warm it up. Granted its not that cold yet. 

 

Because the pipe channels run in one direction you usually do need to pass the pipes under the floor and through the joists. But if you putting in regular T&G panels around the edges you could route these to send your pipes to the necessary location without needing to get underneath and drill things. would make for a tidy installation. 

 

 

[ProDave]

5 hours ago, willbish said:

 

Thanks for the explanation. I dont have the height to build up off the joists unfortunately, (can swallow 6mm for ply) so no option other than to take the pipe under the joists.

I did that in my en-suits.  They were both only a short run of pipe, but it was a right pain feeding still quite long bits of pipe under and between the posi joist webs.  With anything like a full room e.g. a bedroom I think it would become an impossible task.

[redtop]

On 10/10/2019 at 08:11, ProDave said:

Very simple actually.

 

11mm OSB deck over the joists.  This is just to support the pipe and pug mix.

 

25 by 50mm battens following the lines of the joists.  These are notched where needed for pipes to pass.

 

Pipes laid between battens and pug mix added.

 

Final floor on top, in this case engineered oak boards.  The boards sit on the battens, not the pug mix, that is there just as a heat dispersant.

 

 

I will be putting UFH on top of the ground /1st floor base; like your idea!  So if I tell my builder (who isn't doing the UFH) to allow for 25mm + thickness of finished flooring (prob engineered board) that would be right??

[ProDave]

Yes that will be right.

 

To get my finished floor level right, I had to add 6mm under my battens, ripped from a sheet of 6mm ply.

[redtop]

3 minutes ago, ProDave said:

Yes that will be right.

 

To get my finished floor level right, I had to add 6mm under my battens, ripped from a sheet of 6mm ply.

 

looks like a good and inexpensive way of building UFH in from a solid base; anything different you would have done?

[ProDave]

11 minutes ago, redtop said:

 

looks like a good and inexpensive way of building UFH in from a solid base; anything different you would have done?

No not really.  Just make sure your joists are sized for the extra dead load if using this method.

 

There was sand left over from the build so all I had to buy was a couple of bags of cement, making it very cheap.

[SteamyTea]

On 09/10/2019 at 21:30, ProDave said:

heat output (watts per square metre)

Heat output is joules per metre², power output is watts per metre².

Small sounding difference, but important.

[andyscotland]

14 hours ago, ProDave said:

No not really.  Just make sure your joists are sized for the extra dead load if using this method.

 

There was sand left over from the build so all I had to buy was a couple of bags of cement, making it very cheap.

@ProDave I like your idea.

 

My ground floor is PIR insulation on top of slab (garage conversion) and I'd been going to put 18mm chipboard floating floor then the pre-routed overlay boards for the UFH but this is working out a bit pricey. Wondering if your solution might work for me too - it's just floating laminate floor going down on top so needs to be quite a solid base.