Concrete pour in heavy rain.

[zoothorn]

Can someone tell me: in my last photo with the black membrane (& damn ditches).. I have here 100mm from shiny/ wet concrete > to the lip of outside block (the 2nd 9" block top). Is 100mm on top of the wet concrete, my final floor height? or is there another brick to go on the perimeter?

[Onoff]

You must see that nods, handshakes verbal promises and agreements with no recorded, say emailed correspondence to back things up are a big issue here. You really haven't dotted and crossed everything as most people would. 

 

Be honest, has it worked out how you'd hoped?

[PeterW]

Right. So slab is in - any insulation under that ..??

 

Quick fix here is another course of block, 125mm of insulation and then a 100mm sand and cement screed or concrete.  Will take an extra couple of days but will gain you 225mm. Put a course of engineering bricks on top as a DPC and you’ve got 300mm rise. 
 

That’s closer to your line and a quick fix. 
 

Is he having the timber frame built offsite or doing it on site ..??

[Onoff]

Isn't it a building regs requirement to have a certain, minimum amount of insulation in the floor build on a new extension?

[zoothorn]

Just now, PeterW said:

Right. So slab is in - any insulation under that ..??

 

Quick fix here is another course of block, 125mm of insulation and then a 100mm sand and cement screed or concrete.  Will take an extra couple of days but will gain you 225mm. Put a course of engineering bricks on top as a DPC and you’ve got 300mm rise. 
 

That’s closer to your line and a quick fix. 
 

Is he having the timber frame built offsite or doing it on site ..??

 

No insulation yet (I thought that went ontop of this concrete??). I understand the quick fix idea thanks, but my builder simply will not comply: he'll just resort to Onoff's approach 'well you didn't do X'.. or, 'we had to go down due to Y' (building tech spiel I cannot reply to).. or 'why didn't you stop 2nd-in-C then'.. IE any excuse to make it look like I'm at fault not his builder2's fault (who he'll protect till the cows come home, he's like a younger bro). I will not win, only lose.

 

So the -only- logical course to take, is to use the additional H (it is thank god on the one hand a bonus after all, it has to be said & my consider as such.. or I just cannot cope) & progress WITH it. But it complicates things. This trench. Retaining walls.

 

But the main concern with +350mm extra (& the crux of why I chose -not- to go 2 big 350mm steps down, but only 1) is I knew the house is on very shallow founds, & I didn't want to compromise them at all. Now, this is EXACTLY almost what has been done. All exposed a full 600mm (0.5m once the 100mm mystery bits put on to this concrete layer) of priginal clay/ rubble under the old block founds: facing the weather.. sitting exposed for 4-5 days now. I had to pull up the dpc skirt & pin it against this area today by many batens.. as I'm so concerned. Its rife for any b'stard n'bor to come with a pickaxe at night too. Stressful.

[Declan52]

Ok first thing first your plan. The issue most are having is your plan is very light on actual details. A normal plan would have cross sections which would have the standard things like the depths of your screed, insulation layer, finished floor heights, Dpc heights. By having a plan with these kind of things a builder can be held to account as it's there in black and white so there is no confusion.

When the builder is next there ask him what is his plan for your floor buildup to get you to the height that you want.

Do you want a step down into this room or do you want it level with the inside??? 

Remember your paying the bills so if you don't want a step then make sure you say that. Don't just put a step in because it's easier/cheaper for the builder.

 

[zoothorn]

Just now, Onoff said:

Isn't it a building regs requirement to have a certain, minimum amount of insulation in the floor build on a new extension?

Of course.. you of all surely know it is? (confused by your Q.)

[Declan52]

2 minutes ago, zoothorn said:

Of course.. you of all surely know it is? (confused by your Q.)

You have said on a previous post answering my questions that it would be 25mm which is no where near enough.

[Onoff]

Just now, zoothorn said:

Of course.. you of all surely know it is? (confused by your Q.)

 

So where is it on your drawing? 

 

Not clear on your section drawing in any way shape of form as nothing labelled  but is that gap above the slab where they intend putting the insulation?

[PeterW]

6 minutes ago, zoothorn said:

But the main concern with +350mm extra (& the crux of why I chose -not- to go 2 big 350mm steps down, but only 1) is I knew the house is on very shallow founds, & I didn't want to compromise them at all. Now, this is EXACTLY almost what has been done. All exposed a full 600mm (0.5m once the 100mm mystery bits put on to this concrete layer) of priginal clay/ rubble under the old block founds: facing the weather.. sitting exposed for 4-5 days now. I had to pull up the dpc skirt & pin it against this area today by many batens.. as I'm so concerned. Its rife for any b'stard n'bor to come with a pickaxe at night too. Stressful.

Ok that bit is going nowhere so stop worrying about it. 
 

just need to understand, what is going on next ..?? Did they build one course of blocks or two, and what is under that concrete ..? 
 

The trench round the edges is to help them work  - some of it will be filled in. 
 

Simple steps please. 

[zoothorn]

Just now, Declan52 said:

Ok first thing first your plan. The issue most are having is your plan is very light on actual details. A normal plan would have cross sections which would have the standard things like the depths of your screed, insulation layer, finished floor heights, Dpc heights. By having a plan with these kind of things a builder can be held to account as it's there in black and white so there is no confusion.

When the builder is next there ask him what is his plan for your floor buildup to get you to the height that you want.

Do you want a step down into this room or do you want it level with the inside??? 

Remember your paying the bills so if you don't want a step then make sure you say that. Don't just put a step in because it's easier/cheaper for the builder.

 

 

Derclan, it is not a normal plan It is a Build Notice.

 

A normal plan has details, u-values etc etc. You pay a draughtsman to do this, then ylou take the Left turn "Full Plans".

 

There is a Right turn "Build Notice" which does -not- rtequire such detailed plans. I have chosen this route (after consulting builder if happy to). I was asked by him to do a simplified plan, with critical xyz on only (this means -not- the detail info of a Full Plans, although he gave me a copy of Full Plans to go from in order to condense/ boil down to the bare essentials only).

 

I always wanted a step down. You can see the plan that I drew,  showed him, he was happy with, you can see on it there is a 350mm step down.

 

There is not though, two 350mm step(s) down. At the moment I have 700mm step down. No-one has even concurred with me about the clear as day reason for this error. Its easy to see why (the fkn idiot) made the mistake he did. Because he's a fkn idiot (who did it too quickly simple as & didn't look at the plan closely enough) NOT not not.. because I am please give me strength here!!

[zoothorn]

6 minutes ago, Declan52 said:

You have said on a previous post answering my questions that it would be 25mm which is no where near enough.

 

I have never said 25mm of insulation. I mentioned the figure 25mm only assuming it might be the scree.

 

Please.

[PeterW]

@zoothorn so it could be he is about to add 250mm of insulation and a 100mm floor slab so your 350mm goes away. 
 

What @Declan52 is saying is irrespective of what route you go, you need a minimum amount of insulation under the floor. 
 

 

[Redoctober]

6 minutes ago, PeterW said:

The trench round the edges is to help them work  - some of it will be filled in. 

 

Absolutely correct. We had such a situation and I believe it to be normal practice for such builds. The brickies need space to work and also scaffolding, if erected, needs to be secured to a firm level base.

[zoothorn]

5 minutes ago, Onoff said:

 

So where is it on your drawing? 

 

Not clear on your section drawing in any way shape of form as nothing labelled  but is that gap above the slab where they intend putting the insulation?

 

I was specifically told this wasn't needed in terms of info on the plan I was told to do. Onoff this is a Build Notice. If my builder wanted me to state what insulation, he'd have either: asked me to do so on the plan (not just "door placements/ window.. corners.. just this.. is all I want").. or when he had my plan finally done & shown him, then he might have said "but where is the insulation?". He didn't. That is NOT to say he will not put any in!! it means he'll put in the standard X that is required, to meet Building Regs.

 

Can you not understand this? I mean I haven't put on it 'concrete 9" blocks to be used, thermalites too'.. but that doesn't mean no concrete blocks & thermalites are there in front of my eyes does it-?! did I put on "12 inches of founds in 600mm wide dug trench"? no. But that's what was done. So How has this been done.. if I didn't specify it on the plan?? (rhetorical q..).

[Declan52]

5 minutes ago, zoothorn said:

 

Derclan, it is not a normal plan It is a Build Notice.

 

A normal plan has details, u-values etc etc. You pay a draughtsman to do this, then ylou take the Left turn "Full Plans".

 

There is a Right turn "Build Notice" which does -not- rtequire such detailed plans. I have chosen this route (after consulting builder if happy to). I was asked by him to do a simplified plan, with critical xyz on only (this means -not- the detail info of a Full Plans, although he gave me a copy of Full Plans to go from in order to condense/ boil down to the bare essentials only).

 

I always wanted a step down. You can see the plan that I drew,  showed him, he was happy with, you can see on it there is a 350mm step down.

 

There is not though, two 350mm step(s) down. At the moment I have 700mm step down. No-one has even concurred with me about the clear as day reason for this error. Its easy to see why (the fkn idiot) made the mistake he did. Because he's a fkn idiot (who did it too quickly simple as & didn't look at the plan closely enough) NOT not not.. because I am please give me strength here!!

It doesn't matter what kind of plan it is or what it is for. The thing that matters most is details and this is most likely the cause of your issues. I'm an trying to help you and explain how the confusion between you and the builder and with other members here reading it could have arisen. 

So if as @PeterW has explained he puts in 250mm of insulation and the 100mm screed then  will you be where you need to be and have a 350mm step??

You do realise that 350mm is way too high for a single step. You wouldn't want it to be any higher than 170mm for ease of use plus to keep on the correct side of the BCO.

[zoothorn]

6 minutes ago, PeterW said:

@zoothorn so it could be he is about to add 250mm of insulation and a 100mm floor slab so your 350mm goes away. 
 

What @Declan52 is saying is irrespective of what route you go, you need a minimum amount of insulation under the floor. 
 

 

 Ist sentence: how though? the clear indication, & Ive asked many times of builder2 ("is that the floor height??".. "yes"  & many times.. as I was confused & waiting for more UP to happen/ getting concerned we were way too low etc) is these 2x 9" blocks height, forming a wall.. would be filled in with (whatever- I dont care a damn at this stage, pigs testicles I care not just as long as its up to building regs xyz/ which it 99.9999% will be).

 

Sentence 2: but I know this. Ive known this for 25 years. It is not up to me to put the insulation in. I am not a builder. The builder will put the insulation in. It will be at the least, the minimum ammount. Why? how do I know this? "b b but its not on ylour plan tho". Because my builder will do it uo to byuilding regulations, as he's done for decade. after decade. after decade.

 

There is not 0.000000001% chance he will not put in insulation up to the minimum required. B b but its not on your plan" forget the fkn plan already! Its not -meant- to on there anyway! because he didn't ask me that its neccassary to put it on; this doesn't flaming well mean he's going to leave it out!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Im going insane with this.

[Redoctober]

8 minutes ago, zoothorn said:

 

That is NOT to say he will not put any in!! it means he'll put in the standard X that is required, to meet Building Regs.

 

Sounds to me as we are getting somewhere. It seems to me that you don't know what your builder is planning on doing. Which is fine, as you say he is a top bloke and therefore will deliver whatever you have asked for. Therefore, why are you worrying so much about the increased depth at this stage? Surely to allow yourself some re-assurance etc or peace of mind, call it what ever you will, the best thing to do is to actually ask him?? You never know he might surprise you and all this worry will be misplaced.

[zoothorn]

3 minutes ago, Declan52 said:

It doesn't matter what kind of plan it is or what it is for. The thing that matters most is details and this is most likely the cause of your issues. I'm an trying to help you and explain how the confusion between you and the builder and with other members here reading it could have arisen. 

So if as @PeterW has explained he puts in 250mm of insulation and the 100mm screed then  will you be where you need to be and have a 350mm step??

You do realise that 350mm is way too high for a single step. You wouldn't want it to be any higher than 170mm for ease of use plus to keep on the correct side of the BCO.

 

My builder told me -specifically- that the details were not needed. Why? because u-values he knows. I don't. What on earth's the point of me researching for a day to write on it a u-value, when he knows off the bat what he'll use for its insulation anyway (95% of the time as you, he & I know it'll be 100mm polystyrene). It doesn't matter anyway what mm this insulation is to me/ not a flying jot. Why not? Because today's regs are so stringent that their minimum.. will be a godsend compared to the cold floor blight Ive known for 3 years. So I couldn't care less.

 

He told me -only- to put on: door placements/ window placements/ wall positions/ corner points/ roof position/ floor positions. There isn't -anything- else needed, for him, on this build.. to proceed. Nothing. We discussed this for 6-12 months. U-values NO!! NOT necessary.

 

Do you understand the process by which I've taken? on the plan there there there is my 350mm step down!

 

I mean its as if somehow its magically dissapearing of my plan, when you look at it or something.

[zoothorn]

7 minutes ago, Redoctober said:

 

Sounds to me as we are getting somewhere. It seems to me that you don't know what your builder is planning on doing. Which is fine, as you say he is a top bloke and therefore will deliver whatever you have asked for. Therefore, why are you worrying so much about the increased depth at this stage? Surely to allow yourself some re-assurance etc or peace of mind, call it what ever you will, the best thing to do is to actually ask him?? You never know he might surprise you and all this worry will be misplaced.

 

Thank you redoctober.. that's the perfectly reasonable q Ive been longing for here. Thank goodness.

 

Why.. because redO, I have 600m height below the founds of my adjacent old C1830 simple stone cottage main room.. now fully exposed & facing due west where the rain drives up from, 350mm too much D (so should be only 250mm exposed) crumbling away in front of my eyes so that with every rain shower my stress levels go up to max. I'm off to buy a huge tarp tmrw & somehow prevent rain getting at it.. near impossible with huge wall face above running down from.

 

I just know they'll now be 2 weeks wait until I see builder again.. as is typical of him. No probs if only 250mm exposed as should be.. but terribly stressful with 600m exposed. I'm checking for cracks in the main wall every hour. Awful.

 

If I ask him I will be met with white lies, backing up builder2 etc, or backtracking saying my plan wasn't clear &/ or no we never discussed it.. & I'll fkn flip I swear it. And It'll be 4 weeks before I see him, 4 weeks of me not sleeping &.. no. So I can't even speak to him. Catch22. You see? its abhorrant the power builders have, how much they know they control every client's mental health in the plams of their fkn hands, its absoultely disgraceful there's no body to be on the client's side or regulation of their work.

 

 

[dpmiller]

1. please use whole words.

 

2. explain what the steps between old and new will be like.

 

thanks!

[Redoctober]

4 minutes ago, zoothorn said:

If I ask him I will be met with white lies, backing up builder2 etc, or backtracking saying my plan wasn't clear &/ or no we never discussed it.. & I'll fkn flip I swear it. And It'll be 4 weeks before I see him, 4 weeks of me not sleeping &.. no. So I can't even speak to him. Catch22. You see? its abhorrant the power builders have, how much they know they control every client's mental health in the plams of their fkn hands, its absoultely disgraceful there's no body to be on the client's side or regulation of their work.

 

 

You are beginning to answer your own concerns - If you think he won't turn up for 4  weeks due to you raising an issue with him or just asking him what his plan is, then get rid of him and get a new builder in - What is there to lose? You never know, the new builder might be able to start within a week /10 days? Who knows?

 

As for regulating their work, there are systems in place - YOU the client and YOUR wallet!! It has been mentioned many times on here that YOU are in control and you should take control - 

 I know what I would be doing and I think deep down you do too. You deserve to be treated better by your builder so take a stand - get your Tarp in place, sack your builder and get a new one in place. If it takes 3-4 weeks what have you lost - Nothing according to your calculations!!

[bissoejosh]

11 minutes ago, zoothorn said:

its absoultely disgraceful there's no body to be on the client's side or regulation of their work.

 

 

 

Building control?

[zoothorn]

39 minutes ago, Declan52 said:

It doesn't matter what kind of plan it is or what it is for. The thing that matters most is details and this is most likely the cause of your issues. I'm an trying to help you and explain how the confusion between you and the builder and with other members here reading it could have arisen. 

So if as @PeterW has explained he puts in 250mm of insulation and the 100mm screed then  will you be where you need to be and have a 350mm step??

You do realise that 350mm is way too high for a single step. You wouldn't want it to be any higher than 170mm for ease of use plus to keep on the correct side of the BCO.

 

Declan I know you are trying to help, but can you see my plan? I put it up again a few posts back. Is my 350mm step not clear? Would you not think its simply a case of an idiot doing it too quickly (& adding 350 onto 2000).. or just rather consider it is entirely my fault?

 

My 350mm step down is perfectly clear. My plan is absolutely clear. The reason why I'm 700mm down, instead of 350mm (IE precisely an additional 350mm) is perfectly, absolutely & abundantly clear. Its been added to the 2000mm. Only someone whose either an idiot, or, who has loose reasonably intelligent but looked at it only briefly & with arrogance at its simplicity & with too much haste.. has simply cracked on to quickly.

 

Declan this is solely the likely cause. Nothing apart from this.

[zoothorn]

11 minutes ago, dpmiller said:

1. please use whole words.

 

2. explain what the steps between old and new will be like.

 

thanks!

 Ok.

 

No steps between old & new (well not the lower room) access in only via an outside door. This door was planned to be a mere 100mm below ground height, to minimise need for a step here, &, minimise any work to taper in any of the ground, & once inside.. the BCO told me THEN a step (more a larger shelf actually) is needed.

 

Thanks all- really do appreciate the help.