Ed_MK Posted September 5, 2019 Share Posted September 5, 2019 (edited) Well after looking into these for months. Both during the build and now its completed ...I have come to the conclusion that they are COBBLERS! Its REALLY sad that the only reason most of us take these out is to satisfy banks to get mortgages or to resell the house, as they are blatantly not worth the paper they are printed on ..the use of the word "warranty" is as close to a mis-description as you can legally get ! I have collated perhaps a dozen quotes over the last few months from virtually ALL available ..everything from 1500-5000 Quid and they all are basically the same animal ...and cover ...virtually NOTHING. Why do i say that ? ...surely not ....Well for example, for the first 2-5 years (of the ahem..10yr warranty) they will tell you almost certainly to go back to the trade/company that did the sub-standard work ...ah so its an 8yr warranty then? ..well not quite ...there are a list of exclusions and sub clauses that make a medical textbook look like a post-it note! ...Plumbing covered ....No. electrics Covered ...No ..Roof Covered ...No ....Windows and Doors ....Well No. What about the internal stuff ....Well mostly No ....In fact ANYTHING that is likely to fail is exempt or covered in that many codicils and exceptions its bloody useless! I mean if the house falls into a gaping hole in the earth...maybe ...but from what I am being told, when you DO claim you have to jump through that much tape and rings of fire to get anywhere it can take months (or years) to resolve ..and of course by this time you will have fixed it yourself....they KNOW this ... Banks insist on these for mortgages ...but they are getting virtually nothing ..It's just due-diligence in ignorance..Same with new buyers. some retrospectives dont cover the current occupier/developer at ALL ...but only pass on to any new buyer ...so if you have the house for 6 years ...that is wasted payment as the warranty is dripping away, well for what its worth anyway. Lets compare it to car insurance ....You have a bump ..You make a claim ..and you get paid out ....Simples says the meerkats! ...Now my car insurance is £300, and I am sure if it got damaged then I could get 10x that to have it repaired and not be out of pocket. Yes in the world of the Structural Warranty ...you can pay £3000 and the chance of claiming successfully and for anything like the full amount is close to ZERO, in fact after speaking to people I can't name a SINGLE person that is happy...most got (that famous Yorkshire Stately Home) ..BUGGER HALL Its just sad we have to fork out or hard earned for an A4 bit of paper that is less use than a few squares of Andrex ....I mean of course you may as well wipe your rear end on it .. but its not as soft and absorbent. Best thing to do ...IMHO ...Dont bother UNLESS you need to go cap in hand to the bank for a Mortgage/Loan and even then get the BARE minimum cover required, as long as they accept it as a proof of a warranty (doubled up with laughter cramp here!) ...and of course if you are selling it on as the buyer bank will want it too (more laughter cramps) ..but either way retrospective seems the way forward...If you take it from build inception the only thing you are left with at the end is LESS warranty period and paying a bit more normally for the "inspections" (painful laughter cramps now) ...oh yeah i forgot the inspections ...Thats where a guy with glasses and folder pulls up outside in a Vauxhall Insignia and stares through the Heras Fence at a few pallets of brick..If you are lucky he might poke his iphone in the gap and take a few snaps ...Well he has to prove he is "doing his rounds" to get paid. It allows your bank to wipe their hands of any responsibility for lending you money against a building that could be ropey...And it allows a MASSIVE gang of surveyors and engineers to "big up" the RISC boys revenue stream...Win Win? Except for us that is ....as ultimately we will be out of pocket, initially for the cost of paperwork and almost definitely for any work that will probably not be covered by it Yes...all true ...the only piece of paper worth less is Dianne Abbot's O Level Maths Certificate Edited September 5, 2019 by Ed_MK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nod Posted September 5, 2019 Share Posted September 5, 2019 For my £2800 I have lovely piece of paper Over the last two years our dedicate Warrantee inspector made three visits and spent a total of 50 minutes onsite 15 of them for the final sign off My advise would be If you have to have SW Pick the cheapest as they all do the same thing To coin a phrase Bugger al In our case we didn’t need one for mortgage But would need one should we sell When we build again We will go the retrospective route Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newhome Posted September 5, 2019 Share Posted September 5, 2019 1 hour ago, nod said: For my £2800 I have lovely piece of paper Over the last two years our dedicate Warrantee inspector made three visits and spent a total of 50 minutes onsite 15 of them for the final sign off At least you got a piece of paper! I got an email with an attachment. ?. My inspector came out 3 times too. Took a few photos, got a few bits wrong in his report (eg said I had PV and a gas boiler when clearly his own photos in the report show that that’s not the case). At least I have it when I want to sell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bitpipe Posted September 5, 2019 Share Posted September 5, 2019 1 hour ago, nod said: For my £2800 I have lovely piece of paper Over the last two years our dedicate Warrantee inspector made three visits and spent a total of 50 minutes onsite 15 of them for the final sign off My advise would be If you have to have SW Pick the cheapest as they all do the same thing To coin a phrase Bugger al In our case we didn’t need one for mortgage But would need one should we sell When we build again We will go the retrospective route Agree with that - I finally got mine (by email), zero inspection, after the original insurer went bust but they lopped off the first two years cover as that's when I said the build was watertight vs occupied & signed off by BC. It's only value to me is for re-mortgaging (doubt we'll sell within the next 7 years). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy Harris Posted September 5, 2019 Share Posted September 5, 2019 I've mentioned before our experience when buying a new house with serious defects that had an NHBC warranty. It was a completely meaningless piece of paper, because, in reality, NHBC just do all they can to avoid having to pay out, and it was blindingly obvious in our case that no one had properly inspected the construction to ensure it was OK. The only reason for having one of these useless bits of paper is as above, if a lender needs it. Quite what benefit it is to lenders I don't know, as there are so many tales of these warranties not being worth the paper they are written on that I'd have thought that lenders would have picked up this by now. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Punter Posted September 5, 2019 Share Posted September 5, 2019 26 minutes ago, Sensus said: Still ten times more valuable than a PCC/Architect's Certificate (which we refuse to offer, on principle). Not really. Most lenders will give a mortgage on the strength of a Professional Consultant Certificate. I have used them for flat conversions, where NHBC were just wildly expensive (like £8k per flat). Everyone was able to obtain a mortgage with no issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyscotland Posted September 5, 2019 Share Posted September 5, 2019 20 minutes ago, Sensus said: But try claiming on one... even for a major structural issue. If the OP thinks that structural warranties are worthless, in practice, then he ain't seen nothing compared to a PCC. I've learned the hard way that claiming/proving anything based on professional negligence is enormously difficult (and therefore expensive). You have to prove the architect/whoever made a mistake that was totally unreasonable to make (defence: get another architect to say they could imagine making the same mistake). You also have to prove it directly caused the loss (defence: the loss was as much caused by the poor workmanship so it should really be the contractor in the dock). When I tried to use my home insurance legal cover to raise a negligence claim against a surveyor last year they reviewed the case and declined : the insurer's lawyer told me although the policy covers negligence in theory, in practice they almost never go beyond the case review as it's so rare that a case meets the threshold for prospect of success. She said they'd really only help with "surgeon left a pair of scissors in me" and similarly cut-and-dried cases. However in terms of value it seems to me that it depends what you want to achieve. If you're buying off plan / using a main contractor then I suspect a warranty more likely than a PCC to actually pay out, at least for the most extreme cases. If you're going DIY or competently project managing, are pretty confident everything is being built right, are happy to "self-insure" for any defects and just want a bit of paper for the mortgage a PCC may be a much cheaper way of doing it. Equally if primarily just want a bit of reassurance at key stages that you've got everything right a PCC (or other paid-for inspections without a warranty) might give you more control over exactly what's checked and when and the level of advice you're able to get, again at lower cost. I agree that my impression is the warranties are somewhat mis-sold. As you say, seem only really designed to cover cases where the house falls down, so if you just want protection for a leaking gutter or drafty window you'd probably be as well sticking the money in the bank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nod Posted September 5, 2019 Share Posted September 5, 2019 1 hour ago, Mr Punter said: Not really. Most lenders will give a mortgage on the strength of a Professional Consultant Certificate. I have used them for flat conversions, where NHBC were just wildly expensive (like £8k per flat). Everyone was able to obtain a mortgage with no issues. I would of been happy enough pay for an architect err at £1600 if it did the same job We mentioned this to a friend who is a Mortgage adviser at HSBC She said while some will accept HSBC definitely won’t Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nod Posted September 5, 2019 Share Posted September 5, 2019 4 hours ago, Ed_MK said: Well after looking into these for months. Both during the build and now its completed ...I have come to the conclusion that they are COBBLERS! Its REALLY sad that the only reason most of us take these out is to satisfy banks to get mortgages or to resell the house, as they are blatantly not worth the paper they are printed on ..the use of the word "warranty" is as close to a mis-description as you can legally get ! I have collated perhaps a dozen quotes over the last few months from virtually ALL available ..everything from 1500-5000 Quid and they all are basically the same animal ...and cover ...virtually NOTHING. Why do i say that ? ...surely not ....Well for example, for the first 2-5 years (of the ahem..10yr warranty) they will tell you almost certainly to go back to the trade/company that did the sub-standard work ...ah so its an 8yr warranty then? ..well not quite ...there are a list of exclusions and sub clauses that make a medical textbook look like a post-it note! ...Plumbing covered ....No. electrics Covered ...No ..Roof Covered ...No ....Windows and Doors ....Well No. What about the internal stuff ....Well mostly No ....In fact ANYTHING that is likely to fail is exempt or covered in that many codicils and exceptions its bloody useless! I mean if the house falls into a gaping hole in the earth...maybe ...but from what I am being told, when you DO claim you have to jump through that much tape and rings of fire to get anywhere it can take months (or years) to resolve ..and of course by this time you will have fixed it yourself....they KNOW this ... Banks insist on these for mortgages ...but they are getting virtually nothing ..It's just due-diligence in ignorance..Same with new buyers. some retrospectives dont cover the current occupier/developer at ALL ...but only pass on to any new buyer ...so if you have the house for 6 years ...that is wasted payment as the warranty is dripping away, well for what its worth anyway. Lets compare it to car insurance ....You have a bump ..You make a claim ..and you get paid out ....Simples says the meerkats! ...Now my car insurance is £300, and I am sure if it got damaged then I could get 10x that to have it repaired and not be out of pocket. Yes in the world of the Structural Warranty ...you can pay £3000 and the chance of claiming successfully and for anything like the full amount is close to ZERO, in fact after speaking to people I can't name a SINGLE person that is happy...most got (that famous Yorkshire Stately Home) ..BUGGER HALL Its just sad we have to fork out or hard earned for an A4 bit of paper that is less use than a few squares of Andrex ....I mean of course you may as well wipe your rear end on it .. but its not as soft and absorbent. Best thing to do ...IMHO ...Dont bother UNLESS you need to go cap in hand to the bank for a Mortgage/Loan and even then get the BARE minimum cover required, as long as they accept it as a proof of a warranty (doubled up with laughter cramp here!) ...and of course if you are selling it on as the buyer bank will want it too (more laughter cramps) ..but either way retrospective seems the way forward...If you take it from build inception the only thing you are left with at the end is LESS warranty period and paying a bit more normally for the "inspections" (painful laughter cramps now) ...oh yeah i forgot the inspections ...Thats where a guy with glasses and folder pulls up outside in a Vauxhall Insignia and stares through the Heras Fence at a few pallets of brick..If you are lucky he might poke his iphone in the gap and take a few snaps ...Well he has to prove he is "doing his rounds" to get paid. It allows your bank to wipe their hands of any responsibility for lending you money against a building that could be ropey...And it allows a MASSIVE gang of surveyors and engineers to "big up" the RISC boys revenue stream...Win Win? Except for us that is ....as ultimately we will be out of pocket, initially for the cost of paperwork and almost definitely for any work that will probably not be covered by it Yes...all true ...the only piece of paper worth less is Dianne Abbot's O Level Maths Certificate It shows what a scam they are when they will issue retrospectively on the strength of a few photos and a visit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe90 Posted September 5, 2019 Share Posted September 5, 2019 I took out no warranty on our new build as a friend of mine took out an indemnity insurance to cover this when they sold their build (and it cost less than the warranty would have,!!). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteamyTea Posted September 5, 2019 Share Posted September 5, 2019 So if banks/lenders will not lend against a property with the correct and acceptable insurance, the site should be worth the value of the land, minus demotion and disposal. Bet if you asked a lender to sell you a place at they they would say bugger off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nod Posted September 5, 2019 Share Posted September 5, 2019 1 hour ago, Sensus said: Sadly, I've had a number of occasions where self-builders have come to me asking if we can provide PCC's (or help arrange a retrospective warranty), because they took exactly that view on what they thought would be their 'lifetime' home and arranged neither a warranty or a PCC only to find that their circumstances have changed and they need to sell, but cannot do so because they have no warranty in place. The most heartbreaking (and it has happened more than once) is where one of them has been diagnosed with a terminal illness. I have yet to find a solution to this. We can't sign retrospective Architect's Certificates, because our insurers won't allow it, and none of the warranty companies we've spoken to will offer a retrospective structural warranty on a 'new' property, so if anyone knows one who will, I'm genuinely interested. Yes, that's the feedback I'm getting, too: mortgage lenders are increasingly wary of PCC's, and a growing number are unwilling to accept them. One of my friends finished as we started After less than three years decided to sell his home for life and had no problem getting a retrospective SW No test holes just a lot of photos Oh and £360 Ours doesn’t cover our flat roof But will be happy to if I can get a 20 year warrantee off the installer Myself At least Dick Turpin wore a mask Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nod Posted September 5, 2019 Share Posted September 5, 2019 25 minutes ago, Sensus said: Do you know (or could you find out from him) the name of his warranty provider? I’ll ask him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nod Posted September 5, 2019 Share Posted September 5, 2019 Just spoken to him He went through a broker 99% sure it was Protect that provided the 10 year cover It took three days from his initial enquires Same company that I used ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nod Posted September 5, 2019 Share Posted September 5, 2019 Just found this near the top of google search you gt make it up 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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