White mortar. Any ideas please

[DarrenA]

I hope this is good forum etiquette, I received some very helpful suggestions in my Introduce Yourself post and would like to follow them up.

 

I'm just starting my brick and block build. I've ordered the bricks, they are called Karma White by the Bespoke Brick Company. I have the samples and they are extremely white. More of a blue white like you get from led bulbs. There is no hint of cream or warmth about them. Bespoke Brick Company recommend a mortar called Stebah White 104. It is a German product and not effective to import. Cemax make a very similar mortar but my quote came in at over £300 a ton (I need 15 tons). Tarmac also do a white mortar but it is premixed in Colchester and expensive to transport to Bicester in Oxfordshire. Their price was £196 per ton and £600 per shipment. We don't have space to store 15 tons and also the shelf life is 4-6 weeks so would require multiple shipments. 

Local Oxfordshire building sand is very dark yellow but I can get blonde light yellow sand delivered from not too far away. We've tried mixing this with regular mortar and it's getting lighter and lighter. Darker than the white mortar and grey greenish tint but not bad. We made this a week ago and it might dry lighter yet. 

This from my other thread sounds very interesting though... 

 

If you buy white sand, white cement and lime and mix the mortar on site so no storage issues. I think you should be able to produce an acceptable colour without any grey and if you shop around the cost should not kill you. 

 

Firstly what is white sand? Is it silica sand and if so is that suitable for mortar? The local builders merchants can't suggest anything better. As for white cement, our bricklayer says he doesn't like Snowcrete as it goes off too fast. Does that sound right? Is it an issue with just snowcrete or is all white cement harder to work with. And finally, whenever I hear the word lime I think of that Grand Designs episode where they are building in lime in Scotland in the winter and have to keep restarting due to frost. Is lime in cement mortar something different entirely and not to be afraid of ?. 

Basically I'm really keen to get this right so all thoughts appreciated. 

 

 

 

 

 

[DarrenA]

Just one more thing. I'm not looking for toothpaste white mortar. The Cemax product and Stebah white product is a very light grey. I'm sure Dulux would have a name for it in their off-white paint range. 

[ProDave]

Snowcrete is regularly used up here with light coloured sand and a dash of lime to make white self coloured render, used on 99% traditional harled Scottish houses up here.

 

I used some left over bags of snowcrete as ordinary cement on the last build and I can't say it was any different to ordinary Portland cement.  Buy a bag and get some of the lightest coloured sand you can get and mix up a test batch lay a course of bricks and see how the colour looks.

 

If it's acceptably white it will be by far your cheapest solution.

[Cpd]

I used white cement all the time in Australia as we were mixing it with lime and colour oxide to match existing stonework, it was fine to use and did not go of quick. Not sure if you can get it in this country.........  I personally would be very cautious about using a white mortar (and white bricks) as it could well start to degrade in colour / get dirt on the joints and look shabby pretty quickly. IMHO 

[nod]

44 minutes ago, DarrenA said:

I hope this is good forum etiquette, I received some very helpful suggestions in my Introduce Yourself post and would like to follow them up.

 

I'm just starting my brick and block build. I've ordered the bricks, they are called Karma White by the Bespoke Brick Company. I have the samples and they are extremely white. More of a blue white like you get from led bulbs. There is no hint of cream or warmth about them. Bespoke Brick Company recommend a mortar called Stebah White 104. It is a German product and not effective to import. Cemax make a very similar mortar but my quote came in at over £300 a ton (I need 15 tons). Tarmac also do a white mortar but it is premixed in Colchester and expensive to transport to Bicester in Oxfordshire. Their price was £196 per ton and £600 per shipment. We don't have space to store 15 tons and also the shelf life is 4-6 weeks so would require multiple shipments. 

Local Oxfordshire building sand is very dark yellow but I can get blonde light yellow sand delivered from not too far away. We've tried mixing this with regular mortar and it's getting lighter and lighter. Darker than the white mortar and grey greenish tint but not bad. We made this a week ago and it might dry lighter yet. 

This from my other thread sounds very interesting though... 

 

If you buy white sand, white cement and lime and mix the mortar on site so no storage issues. I think you should be able to produce an acceptable colour without any grey and if you shop around the cost should not kill you. 

 

Firstly what is white sand? Is it silica sand and if so is that suitable for mortar? The local builders merchants can't suggest anything better. As for white cement, our bricklayer says he doesn't like Snowcrete as it goes off too fast. Does that sound right? Is it an issue with just snowcrete or is all white cement harder to work with. And finally, whenever I hear the word lime I think of that Grand Designs episode where they are building in lime in Scotland in the winter and have to keep restarting due to frost. Is lime in cement mortar something different entirely and not to be afraid of ?. 

Basically I'm really keen to get this right so all thoughts appreciated. 

 

 

 

 

 

Four spades of silver sand 1 white cement 1 spade Of hydrated lime 

NO plasticiser  

[Russell griffiths]

Was just going to say the same as nod, silver sand is gritty so the lime makes the mix more useable, liquid plasticiser will tint it, 

you will need to make a gauge box to get the mix the same every time. 

[nod]

10 minutes ago, Russell griffiths said:

Was just going to say the same as nod, silver sand is gritty so the lime makes the mix more useable, liquid plasticiser will tint it, 

you will need to make a gauge box to get the mix the same every time. 

Yeah Russ

 

problem with plasticiser and anything white It tends to bless through 

 

Back in the day any SC that was tiled had to be plasticiser free

 

The mix above will dry brilliant white 

Wet dash mix We called it a Cumbria mix 

   

[DarrenA]

Thanks all. I'll give blonde light yellow sand, snowcrete and lime a go when the bricks arrive and report back. 

 

[Cpd]

Is snowCrete  and white cement the same thing........ 

[mvincentd]

Snowcrete and 'light' sand with a dash of lime....and Marmite for colour reference (+ral 7021 door).

To my eye the sand itself was yellow grey and distinctly pale when aside a standard sand, but in isolation I wouldn't think to describe it as white sand...it wasn't silica arena sand.

When I wanted to use leftover snowcrete to haunch a kerb in my brickie was reluctant as he had reservations about it's strength.  We've only used it for the pointing.

 

[DarrenA]

Snowcrete is just a trade name, I'm actually planning to use whatever white portland cement the builders merchant has. 

 

From the Tarmac website... 

 

Blue Circle Snowcrete

Tarmac Snowcrete Cement is a white Portland cement suitable for architectural uses, and provides attractive and durable concrete, rendering and mortar.

Strength

Higher early and later strengths than Portland Cement CEM I 42,5

[PeterW]

12 hours ago, DarrenA said:

Thanks all. I'll give blonde light yellow sand, snowcrete and lime a go when the bricks arrive and report back. 

 

 

Depending on how you order your sand (bagged or bulk) make sure the labourer takes from each bag for every mix. That will even out any variations per bag as that will show all the variations if you don’t mix materials. 

 

And a gauging box  is a must ..!!!

[ToughButterCup]

On 23/08/2019 at 08:29, nod said:

Four spades of silver sand 1 white cement 1 spade Of hydrated lime 

NO plasticiser  

 

I'd really love to know why the same mix ratio with hydraulic lime is much darker. I got a real shock when on @JSHarris advice I used hydrated lime instead. Beautifully white as Gary says.

To make matters worse, I read here that both commercially available types are both hydrated and hydraulic.

 

Further

Quote

Quicklime – lime freshly burned from the kiln, very alkali and exothermically reactive

Slaking – the process of introducing just enough water to quicklime to convert it from a highly alkali oxide to a less reactive hydroxide

Hydrated – lime that has been slaked

Hydraulic – lime that has a clinker of reactive silica compounds that will set with water

Non-Hydraulic – lime that sets only by reabsorbing CO2 from the air. Also called a pure, air or fat lime