lowering a 1600x900mm stone resin tray

[8ball]

Hey guys this has been on my mind for a while so thought I'd post it here, I have a stone resin 1600x900mm shower tray and it weighs a considerable amount so was wondering the best method of moving it into position.

 

The tray is a tight fit with walls on 3 sides (1 long and 2 short) so I have to be clever about it. The manufacturer informs to lay the tray onto acetic silicone so no cement base involved, the floor is 18mm ply  with extra noggins between joists for extra support, the ply has been sealed with a SBR coating then Aquaseal tanking.

 

I also have full access to the floor from below if that helps in any way.

 

Any tricks and ideas for maneuvering  the tray into position will be much appreciated ?

[Oz07]

Glass suckers

[Ferdinand]

I hired a joiner and bought one that is designed to be like stone resin but lighter.

 

Being constructive I think hinging it down from the front edge over a small batten using some sort of restraint, and 2-3 people might be one way. You could mount the small batten on something like a 2'x6' piece of board, and stand on it to stop it moving. 

 

If it silicone you should have space to adjust it for a bit.

 

Nick will know.

 

F

Edited June 22, 2019 by Ferdinand

[8ball]

35 minutes ago, Ferdinand said:

I hired a joiner and bought one that is designed to be like stone resin but lighter.

 

Being constructive I think hinging it down from the front edge over a small batten using some sort of restraint, and 2-3 people might be one way. You could mount the small batten on something like a 2'x6' piece of board, and stand on it to stop it moving. 

 

Nick will know.

 

F

 

Thanks Ferdinand I had not thought of doing it that way...the more ideas the better ?

[Jeremy Harris]

Don't do what I did.

 

This is our's in place (it's 2000 x 900 and weighs about 70kg):

 

 

The stupid way I chose to fit this (it's a tight fit between the walls from left to right in that photo) was to slide the tray in place, spaced up on battens, then lift the right hand side up, propping it in place with a bit of 2 x 2.  I then mixed up some mortar, spread it on the floor (being exceptionally careful to not nudge the prop), then I took the weight of the thing and pulled out the prop.  I'd intended to lower it carefully on to the mortar bed, but this was not to be.  I got it within about six inches of the floor then dropped it.  By pure good fortune it happened to end up dead level in both directions, so I just left it and went home, thankful that it hadn't fallen on my head...

[ProDave]

I would stand it up at the back, lay the mortar / sealant and lower the front down.

 

The purists will say the back couple of inches might not have much muck under it, but that's what I did in our last house and it never gave problem.

[ultramods]

I had to get our180kg bath up stairs last week.

 

Hired a genie lift for a day to get the bath onto the first floor, then made a trolley with 8 castor wheels from ebay to move it about.

 

If you are physically struggling to to move the tray by your self a trolley is a great way to move heavy objects about.

 

Once in position you could remove the trolley and leave the tray on top of a couple of bits of wood ready for applying the adhesive

 

I was also really impressed with the genie lift, one of those things in life that just works 

 

 

Edited June 22, 2019 by ultramods

[jamiehamy]

6 hours ago, ProDave said:

I would stand it up at the back, lay the mortar / sealant and lower the front down.

 

The purists will say the back couple of inches might not have much muck under it, but that's what I did in our last house and it never gave problem.

Same here and I did 3. One is a tiny bit off level I think but it doesn't affect operation and you wouldn't notice u less you stared at the water and carefully watched the flow towards the outlet. 

[Vijay]

If your adhesive can be laid with water (like CT1), I once saw a thing where they laid huge blocks of stone on ice cubes. The ice melted letting the blocks lower into place

[ProDave]

1 hour ago, Vijay said:

If your adhesive can be laid with water (like CT1), I once saw a thing where they laid huge blocks of stone on ice cubes. The ice melted letting the blocks lower into place

I thought about that.  I would want to do a test to see how long the ice took to melt and lower the tray into place, Vs the curing time of the adhesive.

[joe90]

On 22/06/2019 at 14:38, 8ball said:

I also have full access to the floor from below if that helps in any way.

 

Just to add another thought, small  holes in the floor (4?) acros downstairs with blocks up through the holes, put the tray on top of the blocks with enough space to lay the adhesive/mortar, lower the acros evenly. Just trying to think out of the box. ?

[Oz07]

Talk about the long way around! What about a hole in roof and crane it in!? bought a pair of glass suckers off eBay for a tenner. Used them once then sold them for a tenner to the plumber who fitted the tray with me. There is no way simpler that allows you to manoeuvre tray with trapping fingers 

[Oz07]

@Vijay surely you are winding him up?!

[Nickfromwales]

OK, what exactly is the question?

From the above it sounds like you've dry fitted it into place already, as you sate it's a tight fit. Are you able to lift it vertically from the 'front' edge and hold it there whilst you squeeze some goop underneath / over the floor?

You can buy some clear rubber / silicone hose and tape it to the silicone gun nozzle to get into the back / far corners whilst the tray is up at an angle for eg, but that can be done away with if the tray will go fully vertical. Needless to say, you shouldn't be doing this on your own, so don't be a dick and get some help. Just someone to hold the tray from dropping whilst you squirt the goop about.

If using CT1 / similar ( thicker than silicone ) then you'll need £2 coin sized blobs every 100mm to support the tray sufficiently. Anything less will not support it whilst the goop cures, for eg, if it was silicone used then the tray would just naturally drop as the silicone displaced, so the tray would not necessarily stay level but just follow the floor as it displaces too much.

Prior to fitting the tray, have you tanked 300mm or so up the wall? You using tiles or panels? 

[Vijay]

3 hours ago, Oz07 said:

@Vijay surely you are winding him up?!

 

Nope, definitely saw it on some tv programme

[ProDave]

7 minutes ago, Vijay said:

 

Nope, definitely saw it on some tv programme

I think someone on here used that to get a heavy hearth into place.

[8ball]

Hey people thanks so much for the ideas ?

 

On 22/06/2019 at 16:57, ProDave said:

I would stand it up at the back, lay the mortar / sealant and lower the front down.

 

This was my original plan but the wall bows out at the shorter newly plastered end ?

 

15 hours ago, joe90 said:

 

Just to add another thought, small  holes in the floor (4?) acros downstairs with blocks up through the holes, put the tray on top of the blocks with enough space to lay the adhesive/mortar, lower the acros evenly. Just trying to think out of the box. ?

 

I know exactly what you mean but lowering all 4 props at the same time would result in whatever hair that is left on my head gone forever ? but from this idea I am going to use the waste hole in the floor to hold one end of the tray up. See pics below ?

 

12 hours ago, Nickfromwales said:

From the above it sounds like you've dry fitted it into place already, as you sate it's a tight fit. Are you able to lift it vertically from the 'front' edge and hold it there whilst you squeeze some goop underneath / over the floor?

 

 

As in the pics below I have made a mock frame that replicates the tray exactly and from this I have realised that no I cannot lift vertically from the front edge as the newly plastered wall on the short end bows out.

 

12 hours ago, Nickfromwales said:

If using CT1 / similar ( thicker than silicone ) then you'll need £2 coin sized blobs every 100mm to support the tray sufficiently. Anything less will not support it whilst the goop cures, for eg, if it was silicone used then the tray would just naturally drop as the silicone displaced, so the tray would not necessarily stay level but just follow the floor as it displaces too much.

 

The manufacturers instructions say to use a Acetic Silicone or Polyurathane to seat the tray so was planning on using CT1.

 

12 hours ago, Nickfromwales said:

Prior to fitting the tray, have you tanked 300mm or so up the wall? You using tiles or panels? 

 

I have some Aquaseal which I planned on using on all 3 walls top to bottom and also applying to the 18mm ply floor area in the tray footprint, the plywood has already been SBR'd but the more protection the better eh ?

 

I'm using 600x300x9mm tiles, wanted panels but wifey didn't like them.

 

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

So this is the area I'm working with:

 

I have cut a channel just a bit thicker than the tray into short wall near the window as in pic below

 

 

I plan on applying the CT1 to the floor then moving the tray end into the channel I cut and propping the tray up at one end with a 2x4 which will be poking through the shower waste hole - see pic below , I also plan on applying Silkaflex to the edges but don't know if I should apply this once the tray is down or whether to apply a small amount before lowering the tray?

 

 

Once the CT1 and any Silkaflex has been applied I'll run down stairs and man handle the 2x4 post and lower the tray into position ......easy

 

 

What could possibly go wrong ?

[8ball]

Just had an idea, I'm going to remove the tile backer board from the other shorter wall as this will allow me to pivot the tray from the longer edge against the back wall doing away with the 2x4 through the waste hole. after the tray is in position I'll just re-attach the tile board and seal/tank. ?

[Nickfromwales]

Get on with it then  

All sounds / looks good from here. If you tank the wall up to 300mm and leave it dry, then fit the tray, you'll need to use cement to patch that wall in after. Mask the tray with insulation tape, so the trowelling doesn't scratch it.

I assume you know to peel the protective layer off just enough to expose the edges / top 30mm or so and leave the rest on for the moment?

[Nickfromwales]

1 minute ago, 8ball said:

Just had an idea, I'm going to remove the tile backer board from the other shorter wall as this will allow me to pivot the tray from the longer edge against the back wall doing away with the 2x4 through the waste hole. after the tray is in position I'll just re-attach the tile board and seal/tank. ?

Only as long as the board will go back down to the floor, but not ideal as you'll break the tanked seal. Go with option 1 IMO. Youll also not be able to get screws back at the absolute bottom of the board, so maybe not a good idea at all.

[8ball]

12 minutes ago, Nickfromwales said:

Get on with it then  

All sounds / looks good from here. If you tank the wall up to 300mm and leave it dry, then fit the tray, you'll need to use cement to patch that wall in after. Mask the tray with insulation tape, so the trowelling doesn't scratch it.

I assume you know to peel the protective layer off just enough to expose the edges / top 30mm or so and leave the rest on for the moment?

 

11 minutes ago, Nickfromwales said:

Only as long as the board will go back down to the floor, but not ideal as you'll break the tanked seal. Go with option 1 IMO. Youll also not be able to get screws back at the absolute bottom of the board, so maybe not a good idea at all.

 

Thanks Nick, yes I'll stick with the 1st idea as could be a problem getting the tile board back on.

 

Should I tank the 18mm Plywood floor? its already been SBR'd

Edited June 24, 2019 by 8ball

[Nickfromwales]

35 minutes ago, 8ball said:

Should I tank the 18mm Plywood floor? its already been SBR'd

If water gets that far you’re screwed, tanking or not. 

Spend every effort on the junctions between the tray and wall, and maybe have a read of of my methods in this thread; 

 

  

 

 

[Nickfromwales]

Use meths or similar to clean any contamination / mould release agent off the bottom ( underside ) of the shower tray prior to installation   

[8ball]

6 minutes ago, Nickfromwales said:

Use meths or similar to clean any contamination / mould release agent off the bottom ( underside ) of the shower tray prior to installation   

 

Thanks Nick your a star ?

[Nickfromwales]

A tired one lol.