Great crested newts

[Vijay]

Just wondering if anyone has any advice on how to tackle this. I received an email from planning, they got an email from the an environmental planner. Basically a nearby schools is being developed by adding another storey and I believe changing the car park layout.

 

Environmental planner to planning officer:

 

I have recently provided ecological advice to NCC on planning applications at Roade Primary School. At the start of the development it came to light that there was a population of European protected Great crested newts in the pond on the school site. According to the Ecological Assessment supporting permission S/2011/0064/OUT the school pond is adjacent to Land to rear of 33 Hartwell Road. Our applicant’s Ecologists have since gained a derogation licence from Natural England to relocate the population of smooth newts and Great crested newts and created a compensation pond immediately to the north of plot 3s and 4. I therefore thought it appropriate to make South Northamptonshire Council Development Control aware that a derogation licence would be likely to be needed to clear vegetation or to develop the remaining undeveloped land or sites where development is incomplete. I therefore suggest that SNC make the relevant applicants and developer or consultant ecologists aware of the new record for protected species to avoid any infringement of wildlife laws.

 

Planning officer to me:

 

As the owner/developer of plot 3 at the above site, I am forwarding to you an email we have received from Northamptonshire County Council (below).

Please note its contents and the potential legal responsibilities for yourself.

If protected species are present you must be aware that to proceed with the development without seeking advice from Natural England could result in criminal prosecution. 

 

You may wish to contact NCC for further information and/or Natural England for advice on necessary licences.

 

 

I have full planning permission and there was an ecological report done when the land was being developed. This showed that there was were no newts and the pond within the school was unlikely to support great crested newts. It also stated that the nearest newts were some 5.5km away. So it looks like somehow these newts have travelled the 5.5km or possible the school at some point has introduced them into their pond.

 

I don't know exactly where the new pond is going to be, but it can't be any closer than it already is to my plot and at an absolute minimum, can't be nearer than 25m from my boundary. There is another plot in between mine and the school boundary.

 

I'm panicking a but to be honest and this could be the final nail in the coffin of my self build. I guess my first call has to be to the planning officer and environmental planner, but how could I be affected by newts which are 25m from my boundary?

 

Cheers

 

Vijay

[Temp]

I think I would consider erecting newt barriers asap to ensure they cannot migrate onto your plot. Then you would have your report showing no newts and a barrier to prevent new ones arriving. If there are no newts then no laws broken. 

 

Edit: Just read that email again... Perhaps safer to get another report done before erecting barriers and starting work?  

Edited September 10, 2016 by Temp

[Vijay]

IIRC, a report cost a forum member £1300

[jamiehamy]

Have you advised that you have started work? Iirc the site has been cleared? If it has been cleared then this 'notification' is too late, no?

 

If you have your permission and have started work, they can't keep asking you to revisit your survey surely? 

 

Might be worth speaking to something like Planning Aid? These guys can be pretty helpful. The last people I would speak to at the LA or the environmental planner. 

 

I think they might be a bit late, but just in case - what are the penalties for proceeding? 

[Barney12]

I'm no expert on newts (our issue is bats!!) but I'm inclined to agree with @jamiehamy. If their were no planning conditions and you've already started I don't see what you need to do. This is very likely to be the LPA covering their backside. 

 

Whatever you you do don't contact Natural England or the LPA they will drown you in process and paperwork regardless of the reality of any obligation. It's the only thing they know! 

 

 

[Vijay]

I've had the tree protection fence condition discharge but I haven't actually started work as I was waiting for my Mum to have a heart op. The plan was to start the footings in October.

 

Yes the site has been completely cleared.

 

I've never heard of planning aid, is it this site? http://www.rtpi.org.uk/

 

I've just looked at the condition on my approval to do with the ecology report but I can't see that getting me anywhere now that they've decided I may need a license:

 

5. The development hereby permitted shall be carried out in accordance with the recommendations set out in the Ecological Assessment report produced by Aspect

Ecology and dated January 2011 unless otherwise agreed in writing by the Local

Planning Authority.

 

Reason: To protect habitats and/or species of importance to nature conservation from significant harm in accordance with the Government's aim to achieve sustainable development as set out in the NPPF.

[Vijay]

the problem with keeping quiet is that if they move the pond, then it's too late to stop it - not that I would be able to since they have a license from Natural England

[Ferdinand]

If you were not informed about a development affecting you, then there looks to be some shortcoming in the process somewhere, which may be challengeable.

 

Or you may be able to claim compensation for costs which they are imposing on you. THis is very unusual and I believe there to be a general principle about claims not being possible in response to a grant of planning permission, but this is in response to an action required by PP and NAtural England.

 

That PP date in 2011 looks to be dodgily old. ANd a compensation pond itself should require PP, supreme? Do they have it?

 

Or create facts on the ground with a newt barrier and a rapid start to development.

 

AN appropriate notice of intention to object, or perhaps a Letter Before Action, may stop them in a red tape trap while you create facts on the ground.

 

This could potentially knock a large 5 figure sum off the value of your plot, a little like knotweed next door, so it needs careful thought.

 

I would go for a newt barrier as part of the landscaping on the boundary.

 

Ferdinand

Edited September 10, 2016 by Ferdinand

[Vijay]

The problem is if I ask about it, then I've effectively started any paperwork with planning/Natural England. I've known about the development, adding a second floor to the school, but the pond/newt thing is completely new to me and the emails I posted are the only notifications.

 

Surely it should be the schools responsibility to put new barriers up around their boundary? But I imagine Natural England would want them to roam free

[jamiehamy]

Get the footings in Vijay - you have had the site cleared already - in the knowledge that there were no newts. You've done nothing incorrect - to enter talks about it would just bring more attention to it. It's like asking for a Bat Survey after a building has been knocked down. 

 

What I would do however is brief whoever is doing the footings on observing wildlife and looking out for newts - ensure you have provided guidance to them about it, and what to do if they discover a GCN. Remember - it's not a crime to develop your site. Be genuinely responsible - after all - the burden of proof is on planning etc.. - the fact is, the site has been cleared lawfully. I think it safe to say there ain't going to be any GCNs there regardless. 

 

You are a single house on a plot of land - this guidance is a tick box and given the progress to date, is pretty irrelevant to you. Different if out of a planned 400 houses, the land had been cleared for 50 and the rest had not been touched - you're getting caught up in something that doesn't apply to you any more I would say. 

 

 

[PeterW]

I'm with Jamie on this - do nothing and carry on ..!

 

If you have cleared the site then you have essentially started and any pre commencement conditions around ecology etc are discharged. 

 

 

[Vijay]

The problem is the footings won't be started for a few months as I'll be doing them with my own digger. As I mentioned, my Mum has to go in for heart surgery next month (it was supposed to be last Monday but got cancelled), so I need to be local for her for the 6 weeks recovery. The last thing I want to do is be an hour away if she needs anything

 

I agree with what you guys have said, there seems absolutely no reason why GCN would decided to live on my land when there is absolutely nothing there to support them. All I'm concerned is that I would not be able to stop them moving the pond (to where ever it is going to go as I cannot find anything on the council website to do with the ecology reports), if I don't raise it with them now - which I'm loathed to do!!

 

What is newt protection fence made from? If I put it up, then basically I have admitted that I am aware of the situation. Would a weed control mat put up along the 4 bar fence help stop them exploring my plot??

 

Another issue is that the plot between me and the school is not being maintained at all. You can see it in this pic (the 4 bar fence is the boundary between my plot and the unmaintained one, then the school is on the other side of that plot)

[PeterW]

If that is your plot in the foreground then it looks to have been cleared of vegetation ..??

 

That is enough to be classed as starting development, not for building control but for planning as for CIL it relates to any "material operation" that includes starting roads, service connections or demolition. 

 

Newt fences are a long plastic fence but you also need all of the environmental stuff that goes with it that takes 3-6 months so unless you want the delays and also have deep pockets I would ignore it.

 

@recoveringacademic can tell you all about the vagueness of the rules - he's spent thousands on his plot doing GCN protection but the neighbours had to do nothing ... Treat that as your case study ..!

[Vijay]

Yep, that's my plot nearest and that was last year, it was completely cleared by the time I'd finished - actually raked by hand!!!! lol

 

What I meant is would any weed control fabric/membrane act as a GCN barrier as I could happily use that to hold back that overgrowth you can see in the next plot - and not my fault if it stopped newts exploring my plot

 

Yeah I read one of his posts, 6k and 2 years of hoop jumping

[Barney12]

If you really wanted to be belt and braces about the issue one thing you could consider is just biting the bullet on the cost of steel hoarding between you and the other plot(s) Sat down on the ground.

Ok, it might cost you a few thousand but you'll recoup some of that when you come to sell it on.

That cost WILL be lower than the resulting ecologists if they get involved.

If anyone said anything about the gcn's then simply ask them to demonstrate why they would transverse a steel barrier onto open cleared land! 

 

Something like: http://www.firstfence.co.uk/new-steel-hoarding-panels 

Edited September 11, 2016 by Barney12

[Barney12]

P.S. I would though still say that I concur with the past views. Your planning is granted based on the ecology report at the time. You have started your build. Thus any mitigation is the responsibility of the other plot holders to control potential migration.

A few hundred pounds spent with a good planning consultant might be wise. Just please, please don't go to Natural England or an Ecologist (who are licenced by NE) they will bury you in process and cost.

[Vijay]

Barney, not sure they wouldn't be able to get across steel sheeting. Been reading a bit about them and it seems they can climb things. I found this about fencing off the area from a government website https://www.gov.uk/guidance/great-crested-newts-surveys-and-mitigation-for-development-projects

 

Fencing as part of mitigation or compensation

Slope the fencing at an angle between 40 and 45 degrees to allow newts to climb into the receptor area but not escape.

When installing temporary fencing:

• use an amphibian worker and a fencing contractor to instruct or supervise the work
• search and clear the fence line of newts first - carefully cut back vegetation if necessary
• use a membrane that won’t break down or become brittle, eg 1000 gauge transparent polythene sheeting, woven polypropylene or black polythene DPC
• make the membrane as taut as possible so there are no creases or folds
• make sure there’s a suitable underlap so the newts can’t pass underneath, and an overhang so they can’t climb over it
• place the backfill turf downwards in the trench and compact it so the newts won’t use it for shelter
• secure the fence to supporting posts with pads and nails or staples, not battens
• position fence posts outside the receptor area fence (and for drift fencing, on the side least likely to encounter newts)
• curl-join any joins in the membrane and secure them to a post with pads and nails - do this underground as well
• avoid gaps the newts could pass through
• use a stile if the fence crosses a footpath

Protect the area with security fencing in areas open to the public.

If you need to allow farm access through a fence, keep the gap as small as possible and turn back each end of the barrier 45 degrees to the fence. This deflects the newts away from the gap.

Exclusion fencing may need ongoing maintenance to make sure it’s still working. The licence holder should keep a record of inspections and repair work to fences.

When you take down the fencing, remove backfill carefully by hand if newts could be sheltering in it.

 

 

I'm quite surprised to see woven polypropylene in the list of membranes to use as I would have thought it would give them something to cling to. Black polythene DPC would be the cheapest I would have thought but there's also Ebay listings for specialised sheeting such as http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Newt-Barrier-Reptile-Fencing-Natural-Green-tint-sheet-/161959556141?hash=item25b58ab42d:m:mwWehhhSQWlDGHt9oPJDsmg and http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Newt-Reptile-Fencing-100m-Rolls-Green-BRAND-NEW-large-quantities-available-/162198175577?hash=item25c3c3bf59:g:Xl4AAOSwRQlXf6Z4

 

 

I think all of your advice makes common sense, so my plan is to carry on while watching out for any evidence at all of GCN. I 'll make sure to keep on top of keeping the plot clear of any growth or weeds. There is one low spot where a when it rains heavy water can settle, so I will move some earth into it this week to flatten it out.

 

I will also put up some membrane along the fence to stop the weeds growing through (and those pesky GCN from looking at my plot lol) but which membrane to go for??  Also one small issue is the membrane would need to be on my side of the fence, but I could turn the top edge over the fence, so I would create an overhang as described on the government website

[Barney12]

5 hours ago, Vijay said:

 

I will also put up some membrane along the fence to stop the weeds growing through (and those pesky GCN from looking at my plot lol) but which membrane to go for??

 

The cheapest that will meet the required spec! 

 

5 hours ago, Vijay said:

Barney, not sure they wouldn't be able to get across steel sheeting. Been reading a bit about them and it seems they can climb things.

 

what if its electrified

[Vijay]

lol that'd do it

[ToughButterCup]

May I council care - real care - about this issue for the following reasons

• My most recent experience
• Where it all began

In short, my experience tells me;

• There's sloppy thinking among planners
• There's sloppy practice among planners
• And both of the above operating concurrently
• Differing professional opinions among ecologists
• Pursued to the 'n th' degree, the consequences of handling this issue badly are significant (Wild Life and Countryside Act) and (European Protected Species Licence) 
• Worst of all is the joint effect of both GCNs and Planning overload in the LPAs on scheduling

You might like to contact me via PM with a view to a chat on Skype , mobile or even 'telephone'.

 

25 meters is exactly how far our  newts are from our property,  but beyond a financial and timing hiccup, we work with them; not against them. It can be done

[Vijay]

I've just found out that the pond is being relocated to a walkway at the end of my plot, which kids walk though to get to a new playing field. The walkway can't be more than 4-5m wide. The large tree you can see on the left is in my plot and the grass area is their new playing field (land is loaned to them for 10 years). 

 

I can't believe they're relocating the pond to where kids will walk/run to a playing field!!!

 

 

 

Edited September 12, 2016 by Vijay

[ProDave]

I would have a serious word with the council. It is the School project that is causing the "issue".

 

I would respectfully point out that YOUR plot did not have a problem, you already had an ecology report, and you have STARTED your development.

 

Any newt problem that now arises, is clearly the result of the school project and the relocation of the pond, and I would poin tout that it is the contractor responsible for that work that should take all precautions including a newt fence along your plot boundary.
 

[Vijay]

from what I gather and other opinions, I think it's Natural England who take over, so the council would just say we're doing what we're told by Natural England. And from what I've read, Natural England won't care who's problem it is, they just care about the GCN's.

[Temp]

On ‎9‎/‎10‎/‎2016 at 20:19, Barney12 said:

 If their were no planning conditions and you've already started I don't see what you need to do.

 

 

The problem is that Planning Permission doesn't trump all other legislation. Not all building work even needs planning permission but the wildlife laws still apply.

 

If you don't want to apply for a licence I would get some barriers up. That way if the issue comes up later you can say your report found no evidence of newts on your land and you put up barriers to prevent them moving in from adjacent land and being killed during the clearance work. At least that would be some mitigation against any claim you acted negligently.

 

 

[Vijay]

Right, bit of an update.

 

I found the ecology report the school had done last year which found no GCN at all, only smooth/common newts. They did a second report specifically looking for GCN with traps and searches but came up with nothing. The only record of a GCN was 1.5km away in 2013.

 

So reading the email again, it says " At the start of the development it came to light that there was a population of European protected Great crested newts in the pond on the school site". So even though none were found in any ecology reports, it sounds like they must have discovered some when they started work - but I'm not sure how I can confirm that without making calls to planners or Natural England.

 

What I can't get my head around is they are moving them to a pond that was designed and located when there were no GCN. The location of this pond will be next to a walkway for the children to access a playing field - so how on earth is that a protected place????