Ferdinand

The new thread is called "Understanding Octopus Outgoing Tariffs."

Following my previous thread about getting onto an Octopus Outgoing Agile tariff, I am now on it so this thread is about understanding how to use it. The previous thread has been closed. I'll be asking a few questions to start it off. Ferdinand

Since my monthly payment is £65, I am now apparently on a "payment holiday". However my Octopus Outgoing Agile kicked in on Monday, and I am apparently owed about £8 on top for that (32 kWh at an estd 25p each). This is the price profile it is giving me for today:

If you go to Octopussy, do let someone know and the £50 or £100 could be donated to BH, or spent on whiskey.

Well the letter arrived today. Lots of different prices depending where you are in the UK and what sort of billing you have. I have the most expensive billing, quarterly and I am in one of the poorest parts of the UK, so I pay more for my energy. You all ready: Daily charge: 59.10p/day Day Units: 64.10p/kWh Night Units: 33.99p/kWh. If I had gas, with EDF, it would be 33.53p/day and 15.644p/kWh. The "typical household" usage which is the number the lumpen-media usually quote is based on 12000 kWh of gas and 2900 kWh of electricity. https://www.ukpower.co.uk/home_energy/average-household-gas-and-electricity-usage There are slight changes recommended from a review some time ago, but they have not yet been implemented. Not sure what game they are playing you quoting rates so far above the price cap. The £400 reduces a typical bill from £2500 to £2100 under the price cap. Ferdinand

The 5 degrees was from the manufacturer, unprompted - I just asked for the minimum angle. But I'll check in more detail of course.

@Hastings. I have the musical answer to all your questions 😛.

Sounds like you have a door to block, other considerations not intervening. Or see if it meets the definition of "porch". But do look up "covered yard" in Scotland. In England it is something which exists in law, but is not precisely defined anywhere - so very useful. I made a similar "covered way" - basically what here we call a "lean to", which is a weather protected wide walking route. Then added the door into the house 2 years later to give my tenant a laundry / dog space. Saved a lot of form-filling. and some fees.

I'm not very au fait with this except that I added a secondhand conservatory to the back of a house, with a real tin roof and more insulation. So it was no longer a conservatory - no idea what it was, as everyone calls it a conservatory. My considered strategy was that it was behind the house so no one could see it, and nearly exempt from PP as was except that it was 4.2m deep - just over the 4m limit, and therefore not to tell anyone anything, build it well, and keep stum until enforcement became impossible. Which has now happened. Given that the knowledge is out, can you argue that it is something else, or arrange for that to be the case, eg glass porch or covered yard? Alternatively you could brick up or otherwise seal the door so it meets the defn of a greenhouse, and unblock it later after any inspection. Something like a light wooden framework and cladding plus a few shelves would do it. F

Listening to this programme by Maddy Savage: https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/w3ct316s Which is linked to this article: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-62798950 It came up with Finnish using a sheet material called "gypsum board" (in the context of cross-laminated timber: At the upper secondary school, gypsum board, which is made from limestone and not flammable, is used to add an extra layer of protection on the interior walls on higher floors. "We need to take fire safety seriously," says Ms Airaksinen. "We also did a lot of simulation about evacuation and durability in case there will be a fire." Is this just plasterboard? The thesis of the programme is about sustainable construction, and it seemed to me to fit the not uncommon BBC pattern of something perfectly common being framed as a worldwide sensation because it is in a foreign country reported by a non-specialist reporter. F

Well, my Octopus Outgoing Agile starts from 1st October, and I am now told that I am in the cooling off period. I am also informed I am on a "payment holiday", whatever that means. Is that because I have a credit balance of £100+? Anyhoo, in a day or so I'll close this thread, and start a new one about Understanding Octopus Agile. Thanks for all the comments and further comments. Ferdinand

Your call of course, but if you are not up to speed with how much repairs will cost you can't ask them for the sum on top to put you where you would have been had they not failed. However, a clean resolution that you are happy with is the key thing.

I'd also be asking them for a sum for damage done to the brick ie cost of reinstating. Have an estimate handy. You could be going after them for more, but TBH I'd be satisfied with a clean walkaway. What are your alternative plans? Can you just go with a system with intermediate stainless posts between panes?

I'd start off with BCO, sending them the video. Who may come out and tell you it is unsafe. Get that confirmed by email. Also the Chief Exec of the installer, and the senior and technical people at the UK Office of the manufacturer, if such exist. In any case you should be refusing to pay a penny until the install is safe. Make sure that you document carefully, as you will need to prove it. F

Here's another one. They seem to be around.

I've been on deemed 50% export since 2016. But I am just swapping to Octopus Agile Outgoing (Export Meter MPAN just approved), which will presumably mean separate metering when I take the next steps in the future and fit a second array.. F

I think you have most of the info you need in the comments above. Mine would be: 1 - The threat of legal action is not something necessarily to be scared of. Going "hammer-and-tongs or ignore" in return can be a mistake. Firstly, they want her attention. Perhaps looking for a middle way is a way ahead? 2 - Perhaps she should find out what fee will be charged for using the TF company's work. It may be acceptable to her. Or a counter-offer could be made. Their risk is that they may be known as a soft touch for further copyright violations; her risk is a sum of money. Who has a bigger motivation or ability to defend their interest? Due to bespoke requirements, they have probably spent professionals' time on her project, so they are understandably narked if the intention is to use their work, unpaid. I would guess at several days time, at perhaps £250-500 per day. 3 - My opinion is that she needs to have a candid conversation with the TF supplier. 4 - For risk management, she *could* check out how litigious they actually are. What is the riak of legal action? 5 - For *you*, remember that there are cases when an opinion such as yours offered to a friend has been deemed to be "legal advice", so make sure that you have no potential liability. My thoughts, which are explicitly *not* legal advice. Ferdinand

So a conversation required with the appropriate department. Useful - so I should be able to go grid-tied on a new say 6kWp install, if DNO decide there is capacity in the network to take it, without affecting the existing FIT. And I can stuff neighbour's mouth with a small amount of gold to get him to act on the tree rather than having to bugger about moving panels. Cheers. F

Interesting - speaking to the company for the carport piccie above, the product is not launched yet and they are focused on their commercial install business 🙂 . Interestingly they say the minim roof angle is 5 degrees, which is roughly what I would want - my way to do the aesthetics would be to have the roof shallow such that the panels cannot be seen from the front - even at verands roof height. F

Hmmm. My existing system us fully Solaredge'd thanks to the tree mentioned above. I think that is different (?) F

That would be the intention, yes. Here's the front view from due South. If you look carefully you can see the brick grain change where it used to be a small double fronted 1940s bungalow. One issue is that those 2 front rooms overheat in hot summer. Lots of designs are possible, eg something in brick with round arches following the front door pattern, or lightweight steel / stainless, or wooden, or even a variety of post and beam. It will need PP, however, as it is forward of the building line. You can see the edge of the 3 panels on the LHS of the big gable. There are another 28 on the RHS of that gable, with the 100-125 year old horse chestnut I would like gone, as it is starting to crack. That protruding branch is directly above the main bedroom. Personally I'm a fan of lightweight structures, so I can even imagine simply using a suitable solar ground based mount put in front - if the aesthetic, engineering, column spacing, panel angle almost flat etc works, or something from a local steel fabricator. I am not even sure that it would need any backing at all. https://www.sunfixings.co.uk/roof-type/carport/ My dad once made a car port made with one side supported by scaffold poles, which is still there 50 years later. I wouldn't go quite that far. Estate agent distorted piccie below. The lady who had it built for her in 1971 has just passed at age 100, having lived there since. I guess they just wanted something simple which did not intrude - running out of budget? Useful thoughts. I think I need a conversation with the DNO as one of my preliminaries. I wonder if I can have 2 systems exporting at once if I go for connected? Cheers F

I'm currently working up a project for a new veranda on the S-facing side of my house, to 1) provide shade for rooms that overheat, 2) create a car port in front of the garage, and 3) possibly to incorporate an office / study on the front of the lounge. Currently I have a (2015) 9.93 kWp grid-connected solar FIT install, which is approx 8kWp East facing and 1.9 kWP West facing. It si a simple array with no batteries or divert devices. The veranda could add approx 45 sqm of S facing nearly-flat roof. In the past I have wondered about moving some of my East-facing solar to the roof of the new veranda - it was laid out with that as a consideration. But given that that would cost (guestimate) £2000 to move, and the neighbour on the East side is considering removing his questionable huge 100 year old horse chestnut tree that overhangs my house / part of the solar array, I am toying with the idea of leaving it as it is and installing a new array on the veranda roof. I already have a report suggesting that the tree is risky, and it is probably worth me contributing to the cost of removal. For background, can anyone advise me if I am going to hit any elephant traps thinking about this: 1 - Is there a hard limit for domestic solar connection to the grid at 10 kWp? Would I run into regulatory trouble trying to boost that to say 16 or 17 kWp total? 2 - Are there technical issues around integrating an old and a new install? Or can I easily run 2 in parallel? 3 - What approach should I consider? An alternative would perhaps be to consider the existing array as an "export" array, and install the new one off grid with a water heating setup and house battery. All thoughts are welcome, as I'm doing my background thinking. I know the solar basics, but I'm wrestling with how to navigate our now more complex environment. Cheers Ferdinand

Hmmm. Drought resilience calculation. Is it not the case that we get rainfall even in a drought, so you can extend the resilience period by considering it necessary to supply say 50%? Plus of course usage can always be optimised. What does that do to your calculations? F

No. It was Chancellor Alistair Darling's 2009 Budget for introduction from April 2010. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_United_Kingdom_budge It means we have a 60% tax rate between £100k and £100k + 2x the personal allowance, as the allowance is tapered out at £1 for every £2 of income over £100k. (Though I had to go and check!). I remember the political cynicism of New Labour as it passed into history. Were i in that tax bracket, that's a good reason for doing charity donations for income over £100k, since the Govt will give £1.50 for every £1 donated. (I think) There was a similar thing with the 50% top rate of tax being announced in 2009 and introduced in 2010, despite the lower top rate having existed throughout their 13 years in power. One way to look at that is a political time bomb to allow Conservatives to be branded as pandering to the rich at some point in the future - you saw the coverage over Kwasi Kwarteng doing just that. (Unfortunately I'm no fan of Krazy Kwarteng either. They should not have walked away from stabilising the housing market and levelling up imo.) F

I think TBH this depends on your definition of "worth it". Are you motivated by ROI payback, or by using less energy / reducing emissions, or by have a local power resource that limits your dependency on the grid whilst still hvaing it available as a top up? Depending on your answer to that question, lots of answers are possible.