Tin Soldier

Hi Peter thanks for that I am replacing the combi with a system boiler of appropriate power fortunately the kitchen is the nearest point to the proposed thermal store location. interesting point for the 10mm to basins...

I assume you mean your fine selves forum engineers

Yes, I did think that they were pretty long runs Not something every mentioned by my trusty architect as a problem but now its on me to get the detail right and make the best of it Thanks Scott

Hi JSHarris, thanks for that info. any pointers to the pressure vessels you have put in?

its just me on the borehole, tis mine

Morning All I've moved on to planning the plumbing for my extension. There are a couple of areas of concern for me in terms of the plumbing. My existing house runs on what must be some form of loop plumbing. Its a Victorian farmhouse with a couple of extensions bolted on. 1 bathroom in a catslide upstairs and a utility room downstairs. Both of these extensions take an age to get hot water to from my existing Combi Boiler (Oil). My major concern is that my extension is doubling the size of my house, but on a single storey (so the footprint I guess is 200% of the original). which means more addition to the plumbing loop? and possibly a very long wait to get hot water The second concern is low flow rate of my water. At the moment its sitting at 12l per minute. which is not great. Its a private borehole. I'm a pretty hands on type, apart from (historically) plumbing, so I'm keen to save what I can. Reading on here, and looking over the current favourite, Nicks fanastic manifold plumbing setup), I like the sound of this. If the manifold was central, the longest run to an outlet would be 25m to the new side of the house, where we will spend the majority of our time and will house the main bathroom. I'm happy to accept the old side having the same loop system (but I guess connected to manifold) In an ideal world I would have a thermal store (ground floor) heated by an external system boiler, and frequently a woodburning boiler stove (complete with safety features to run cool water in if it overheats). This would allow me to run two showers from the thermal store at the same time. I have attached a picture of my thoughts, but I have numerous questions. 1. is the low flow rate of 12l per minute acceptable - what can be done to increase it? is it a cold water accumulator. 2. If so can someone point me in the direction of an example? 3. Is it possible to have a ground floor thermal store with no cold water tank in the loft - do I need an expansion vessel? 4. what else is missing from here that I need to think about? Many thanks for any assistance plumbing.pdf

Ok definitely conduit so each 22mm pipe needs its own 60mm conduit? is the conduit like unperforated land drain coil (black ribbed stuff?) struggling to tiny 60mm conduit otherwise

jack, any chance you could point me in the direction of this 60mm pipe? from what I can find its normal to run 22mm pipe flow and return to UFH Manifold are you saying that these pipes are run through a 60mm conduit?

I'm building a house sized extension adjacent to an existing property. The founds/slab and blockwork are going in January - February, prior to the panel company erected the extension in april I will be opening up the existing property to accept the union with the new extension in March. it requires the wall to be raised, rsj in etc. Once I'm into the existing property the intention was to channel the UFH Manifold Flow and return and flow pipes into the existing slab all the way to the thermal store- circa 8 meters. I'd rather not open the house to the elements whilst the groundworks are being done, so I'm looking at ways of laying the pipe/conduit in the insulation,so I can get to it when I'm opening up I don't know if its possible, but I can hope

so... I've been thinking about the return and flow connections to ufh Manifold to be laid within my eps insulation, under slab, What type and size of pipe is best, and how best to lay it? individual pipes, or some form of conduit? at the moment there will be a 50mm layer of eps insulation, sandwiched between two 100mm Layers, which I thought would be a prime candidate to channel out and lay the pipes in. The reason I ask about a conduit is that I would need the ends of the pipes to be exposed by about 8 meters at the edge of the new slab, to allow me to channel out an insulated route through the existing slab, once we break through. Thoughts appreciated thanks Scott

surely if we burn enough oil we can block out the sun?

Ok Nick I'll listen to your suggesting and look into it, thought I don't know what MCS means? things getting pretty complicated now but reading through that old ebuild post the guy had a woodburner with a cold water cooling coil to quench the back boiler in the event of it overheating. setting aside financials for the moment could something like this work for having a wbs connected to to thermal store on the same level? a quick google has come up with https://www.modernstoves.co.uk/wood-burning-stoves-with-back-boiler/apollo-multi-fuel-wood-burning-stove-with-back-boiler.html which has an optional thermal safety flush valve for connecting the water, and recommend a pumping station to be connected up too could that work? we use a wbs a lot at the moment, and have a practically unlimited wood supply so its worth me investigating now if I can utilize it to warm the thermal store. cheers Scott

Now I’m super interested the plan was to buy a wood burner anyway to supplement the other wood burner in the older part of the house that we run half the year 10 tonnes of wood in my barn and a wood at the end of my garden ready to be cut split and set on fire i assumed no gravity no hookup. so far my plan is to centralise the manifold and run a connection in the middle layer of the insulation under the slab to the boiler, coukd i I do the same with a connection to the thermal store? And have a pump in the same location as the manifold?

Hi guys, this is some fantastic feedback, genuinely amazed that you take the time to put in so much detail Nick, I think Solar PV is out of the equation just now, as is ASHP and GSH, I simply don't have the fund to commit to it, I've tried to get the shell of the house right. I'm liking the sound of a good sized thermal store and a reliable system boiler. plenty of room to put it in, at least there is in the utility room, no upstairs room to even contemplate it unfortunately. oh if only I could hook up my ground floor woodburner to the TS, I couldn't, could I?

is bigger, better in terms of ts and boiler power? Funny you should mention an outdoor boiler. I've been looking at GRANT outdoor boilers as there is a local installer. any recommendations on boiler type/thermal store?

1 bathroom, 3 showerroom overall, family of 5 DHW, it would be great to be able to run two showers at once I guess recovery time in the evening is important (If I'm understanding recovery time right) as theres a lot going on, three young kids to bath etc. and likewise in the mornings when they are a little older. boiler will be purchased new to replace current, so power is non currently limited. currently we have no hot water tank of any sort and a struggling combi oil boiler. What type of boiler is suitable to heat a thermal store, a system boiler?

Hi there, I've been posting sporadically as my thoughts move from one topic to another. I've had such a fantastic response so thank you. Next up is heating. I'm struggling to get a hold of any local plumbers who know anything/are willing to come and discuss/ quote on ufh design, uvc or thermal stores. I've attached a picture of my extension, I've tried to remove as many layers of detail (so its easier to read) as I can which is why there is some weird colouring etc. its all on one level currently the plan is simplistic. UVC and Oil Boiler in the utility room top left connected to radiators in the old house, and ufh in the new house. It was going to be in screed UFH, but based on some research and discussion with you guys yesterday I've asked to change this to in slab pipework. my next area of concern is. 1. location of UFH Manifold and length of runs. - Looking at the heating during the planning stage it was simple UFH manifold in utility room connected to boiler, no probs. however when I look at the length or runs when I am trying to figure out layout, locating the manifold in there will mean there are some excessively long runs. could anyone recommend a better location for the manifold? can it be at a distance from the Boiler - ie located in the middle somewhere? 2. Should I be looking at a thermal store in place of an UVC. can I Heat my UFH and radiators and DHW separately from this, would it be a more efficient store to a UVC? I keep seeing snippets on 'short cycling' which is putting the fear into me. as I try and get someone local to discuss with, any pointers would be much appreciated cheers Scott

its a 100mm slab with mesh and ufh pipes

SE has come back with weight of slab is 500kg per m2, equating to 5Kpa no issue with any type of insulation that I have suggested (eps70, 100 or PIR)

its just a slab, sips panels sitting on blockwork on strip foundations. I've asked the architect who will check with the engineer as I'm changing the floor make up struggling to find eps100 in stock at a reasonable price though

eps70 or eps100 for under slab insulation? I'm finding mixed views when I try and search the answer

those are really great pictures to see JSHarris so heres another probably naïve question If my 100mm slab is sitting on top of 250mm eps insulation, how to do you inslate the side of the slab from the blockwork. I assume insulation and looking at my current drawings its noted as 30mm Kingspan tw55 upstand for self leveling screed. is this enough or should it be wider, and if it is wider, how does that effect the studwork/battening that I guess would be going directly above it?

ok I'll have a think, I have me own digger to excavate and lots of land to distribute material on, so more than happy to dig.

thanks for the replies guys Could I ask what the reason for recommending 100mm or eps then 100mm of pir? as opposed to 250mm of eps100?

Hi there, I've a 125m2 extension being erected next year with a pretty basic floor slab planned. Floor covering 65mm Screed UFH Pipwork 150mm PIR insulation 100mm c35 concrete with mesh Whilst looking at the overall prices of each piece of work there's a couple of questions that have come up would it beneficial to change the floor structure to incorporate circa 250mm of eps insulation under the concrete slab, instead of the 150mm pir above slab. And whilst I am at it, possible to incorporate the Under floor heating pipework into the slab, as opposed to having the pipework in a screed on top of the slab? The reason for looking at this is to save time and money. The 250mm of eps insulation has similar u value to 150mm pir, whilst being cheaper - circa 1k at the moment, but there is another price increase on pir due in February. If I incorporated the pipework into the slab, I could save circa 4k for the screed work post panel installation, but it would also mean I could crack on with the studwork immediately after the kit erection as opposed to laying pipework and ordering in self levelling screed. any thoughts/drawbacks?