Seren161

We completed our build 4 mths ago and we were well below the £/m2 that you are working with @Katie AG, East Kent so not too far. You have to remember that it is a process full of variables and so with a budget such as yours which seems healthy and reasonable you should be able to tweak your variables to make your self build dream come true with some careful planning and good oversight.

Getting our SB mortgage was easily the hardest and most stressful part of our build. What are the factors contributing to the high cost per square metre?

You sound like you have got a decent amount of support as well as a reasonable skill set to be getting on with it.. There isn’t any reason to be confused IMHO. The reasons you wish to self build and your personal finances, situation , risk appetite, ability to deal with challenging circumstances etc could be on a sheet of paper and help you clarify your thoughts about what will and will not work for you. Reading through this forum.. you’ll notice that the self builders are all very diverse in terms of experience, motivation, self build approach taken, reasons for self building, serial and very experienced self builders, complete newbies powering through on their own..etc but you’ll also see familiar themes in the challenges encountered. Rates will be up or down, the variable costs of labour or materials will also go up or down, there won’t often be a sweet spot to commence.. and if said sweet commencement conditions happened, they can and will change mid build.. sometimes multiple times. If you are thinking of self building just to save on the cost of your home, then yes you probably still can achieve this but you will need to do more by yourself, If you are self building because you want something that is exactly what you and your family want in the location you want.. then what are the chances of you finding this on the market and delaying it might save you some pounds but not yet met anyone who can buy back wasted time. If you want to flip the property and make a profit then possibly you have a greater challenge in the present market Self building is not easy and there will always be reasons not to do it but only you will know why you want to, if you truly want to etc and then you can move on to what can I afford and how can I make it happen within my budget..

Our two most wildly inaccurate quotes came from a professional cost estimator and a professional builder…Yet another project manager eyeballed the finished project and estimated our costs surprisingly accurately after a brief tour of the property. My point is there can still be significant differences regardless..We had multiple costings from many sources some paid for and some free “ calculators” and this informed our feasibility assessment. We went with a main contractor. 3 months post completion with all the costs calculated.. we ended up circa £1850/sqm for build costs including professional fees, investigations, planning, landscaping, light fittings, solar, ASHP, 3d renders etc.. Main exclusion to this figure: Land costs as we were a demolish and rebuild project. We are south east based but not in one of the more affluent parts of east kent.. All the variables matter.. Design, Build method, Spec, Main contractor or actual self build, Project manage yourself or not, Slope of plot and location…Serviced plot or no..So no easy answer..I found using as many costing and estimating resources as I could ( most of them free including this forum and most of them allowing me to change the variables a few times) as well as the TF companies even though we eventually went with Masonry gave us a good indication of financial feasibility.

We had nearly 14k ( 8 after the Govt grant) for a 12kW Arotherm plus.. Similar to your quote but electrics by our electrician and base built by our builder .. that was a year ago.. Difficult to know if it was overpriced..We were happy with the quality of installation etc etc

Thank you! Lots of useful advice. I hope to site it about 75cm away from the ASHP. On the same string as the ones above with a slight incline. Not sure if going for the landscape orientation will make it too close to the ASHP. Going for a structure that starts around where the green bin is will allow that but then a bit more shade will be the compromise. Current garage array is oriented about 145 degrees south east. Will be getting someone qualified to connect it all up but was hoping my OH can put up the structure and the panels to save a bit of expense.

We have an existing 5.3kWp installation consisting of about 16 Solarwatt panels on our south facing elevation and our garage roof… Having had a chance to assess our usage, we want to add about 4 panels to the string on our garage ( standard masonry construction) by adding a sturdy lean to and mounting these panels on the roof of the lean to and subsequently add battery storage to maximise our consumption. They are the Vision 325Wp ones and they weigh 22kg each and are about 1700mm by 1000mm. Wondering what we should be aware of when constructing the structure to make sure it is sturdy enough and adequate for the heavy panels and mounting system. Some of the kit lean to’s I’ve seen look flimsy, oak ones seem sturdy..but wondering if anyone can recommend or advise? TIA

@Bozza and @Conor are right. My experience was that 2 different professional cost estimating/project management companies quoted between £2100/sqm and £2800/sqm for our relatively mid range project…This was 12 mths before the build started so factor in the material increases and looked more like £2200-£2959/sqm. Real cost : planning, prelim investigations, random special requirements, improved spec , unexpected expenses and completed build..less than 1800. ..and the professional cost estimating service was the most inaccurate. An expectation of 2-£2.5k/sqm is realistic and with some careful planning you can probably come is slightly lower.

Welcome @Katie AG Really useful thread this.. I think the advice about not rushing is super important and also trying to get some individuality into your build. Fabric first approach can give the really low running costs that ease your day to day and the payoff lasts. Planning permission is sometimes not the wrestling match you anticipate so push the boat out a little and you may be pleasantly surprised especially if you are able to get a design that maximises solar gain. We built with a local builder and it was a bog standard brick and block construction. Final cost per square metre for a medium to high spec was about £1750 to £1800 so not bad, but there were definite compromises in terms of the build speed and the airtightness of the building fabric as well as the fact that when you aren’t building it yourself you are powerless to control certain aspects of the build. And this can be extremely frustrating. You will know what matters the most to you and the more research you do the clearer what you want should hopefully be. Bridging loans are only suited to very limited situations… would require very careful consideration and professional assessment of your financial situation.

Considerably cheaper than what we paid.. i The Solis inverter is Chinese and not as expensive as the German ones but by what I heard from an installer ..works perfectly fine. Seems reasonably priced ..I’d get the 7.29kWp array if finances allow. I thought DNO approval was over 10kWp? 3 phase electricity is usually expensive so worth really considering this. We were only 5.5kWp but in (sunny) Dover with a hybrid Fronius inverter ( to keep the battery option open) and 3 phase electric ..was considerably more expensive.. and still wish we went for a larger array …

I bought the electric fire, designed what I wanted, purchased all the decorative elements , handed all to builder, carefully and clearly illustrated what I wanted using photos and tasked our builder and plasterer with creating it. Will Pm an image. Fireplace companies are only happy to advise what you need ..decorative surrounds did not seem to be within their remit.

A VR walk through would give you a lot more “ feel” for the space arguably way more than you can get from room sketcher or even 3d renders..having used both and a bit of money spent on this sort of planning can yield superb results ..but at £1500 plus vat I’d say definitely nay…get a few 3d renders of the key spaces that are different in the two proposals .. costs way less..

You might be able to knock 10 percent of that quote …not sure you’d get more..

How many ..DG or TG windows?

As far as I am aware no certifying body..they go on a course and that’s it. Some installers are pretty good and happy to show you a portfolio of their work and combined with the extensive info on here..you can make an educated choice as to why you want an installer and if you do ..then the info on here gives you the means to choose one that seemingly knows how to do a good job. We had a tradesman install ours and I wish I hadn’t….despite the person “going on a course” I’d say I learned more about it on this forum than they learned on the course.

That is epic. How are you finding this on the stress side of things. We are currently completing relatively minor snagging and I’m still expletively stressed..Agreed that being 800 plus more a square metre can contribute to stress levels but it is relative. Interested to see what your final cost per sq metre is..

This sounds dreadful.. I think you can also contact the MCS as well I had cause to contact them once and here is an excerpt from their email I will send below the complaints process for you to follow, if you have already written to the installer with details of the complaint and what needs to be actioned please email back, and I will follow up with the complaints link. The first step in the complaints process is for you, the consumer, to contact your installer in writing with details of your complaint and an outline of what remedial action is being sought. Letter templates, if required, can be found here: https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/consumer/template-letters/letters/ https://www.legalombudsman.org.uk/information-centre/consumer-resources/complaining-to-a-service-provider/ https://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/letters If you have not been able to reach a resolution with your installer within 14 days, then a complaint form, along with evidence and the installer's response, is referred to the installer's Certification Body and/or Consumer Code. MCS will facilitate this. Certification Bodies, independently accredited by UKAS and working on behalf of MCS, are organisations responsible for certifying installers against the MCS Standards, publicly available on our website. Installers must also be a member of a CTSI-approved Consumer Code. Certification Bodies and Consumer Codes perform different functions on behalf of the Scheme. The nature of your complaint may dictate which of the two organisations will be involved in handling your complaint. Sometimes both will be involved. MCS can identify your installer’s Certification Body or Consumer Code if you need assistance. As a final option, you can escalate your complaint to MCS if you are still not satisfied following the Certification Body/ Consumer Code’s investigation. MCS can only investigate a complaint once the complaints process operated by your installer’s Certification Body and/or Consumer Code has been exhausted. Different Certification Bodies and Consumer Codes operate slightly different complaints processes, so we ask that you familiarise yourself with the complaints process your contractor’s Certification Body/ Consumer Code operates. You should also have the opportunity to challenge the Certification’s Body’s decision if you are in disagreement. Please note that in undertaking an escalated complaint, we will be holding the contractor directly to account, which will require allowing the contractor to access your property if necessary. Our ultimate sanction is removing a contractor from the Scheme. More information regarding the complaints process, as well as the role of Certification Bodies and Consumer Codes, can be found here: https://mcscertified.com/complaints-compliance/ Kind Regards, Hope it helps

Lots of useful info on here.. we got a smaller system on 3 phase ..all installed now.. Still don’t know loads about it though. PM if you want to see our quote for comparison.

We are at the end of our 350m2 build and we went for 3 phase.. it was a touch expensive at an initial quote of 5.6k from UK power networks but apparently this was before they realised the buried supply was much closer than they expected and we got a refund of 2k plus.. I grew up in a developing country where the housing stock is much “younger” than the UK housing stock and three phase was/is standard for average homes so that was my natural preference I guess but also wanted to have the facility for a 22kW EV charger in future and I had a pretty demanding lighting plan, plus similar to @Andehh 12kW Heat pump etc The actual 3 phase install wasn’t too bad ( done in a day ) but before they realised the supply was outside our property, they had put flyers through the neighbours’ letter boxes warning of road closure and road digging etc Add this to your building noise and building traffic and peed off neighbour x multiples is guaranteed. Getting British gas to install our 3 Phase meter was a little tricky..delays of 3 weeks. They did not fit a smart meter so still waiting to see if I can get the SMETS2 3 phase smart meter. This matters especially if you have solar panels and plan to take advantage of some of the more interesting energy tariffs from providers like Octopus etc ..You can buy the smart three phase meters but not sure how that works in terms of responsibility etc.. 3 phase electricity means Heat pump is three phase, Hybrid inverter for Solar array is three phase, if we decided to go for battery storage ..it would be 3phase ..The inverter was really difficult to obtain I was led to believe due to scarcity but maybe better availability in the winter?. That said I am still really pleased that we went for it but it was a rather convoluted process. Unconnected to this .I have had to contact UK Power networks for some electrical upgrade work at a different location and they do seem really keen on pushing the 3 phase electric upgrade ( they called it their preferred option) but because it is a busy fully functional location..the potential disruption means I went for a 100 amp fuse upgrade only . I think there is a big push to upgrade more sites to three phase as well as smart metering with a view to future proofing the functionality of the power grid as we move forward and so the cost of the three phase upgrade may well be subsidised in the near future . Also I’m reliably informed that due to power grid constraints..having a fast ev charger doesn’t necessarily always mean a “fast” charge…..

All really good suggestions..Hoping that this thread is useful to someone..If I am ever mad enough to self build again I would definitely do what @MJNewton did. Not sure I fancy unpacking and repacking a 20-35 kg appliance ..the styrofoam alone …:-)

I purchased quite a few appliances well before they were required for our new build and put them in storage for what I anticipated was a few weeks before they were ready to be installed..Well weeks became months..and when they came to be installed I discovered one particular pricey appliance was delivered with a broken door and had clearly been dropped prior to delivery..cue phone calls and wrangling with AO and the appliance manufacturer as well over the 30 day window…AO didn’t want to know and the manufacturer wanted to potentially charge a call out and parts fee. It took buying a replacement which also turned up defective for the manufacturer to be embarrassed enough to sort out the issue. In reality it seems impractical to “‘make sure the appliance is fully functional “ when it’s packaged as tightly as they usually are, your intended kitchen/utility room is a building site and especially if the appliances are to be built in prior to use..but this got me wondering..should self builders be only buying at the point of installation? In what ways have others avoided this issue?

Take all the advice @Bluebell78but don’t give up…it is well worth it if you are able to save more and especially consider @Papillon ‘s advice of searching for potential vendors. It is expensive..it worked out just as economical for us to buy a dilapidated home, live in it for a few years while saving as much as possible and then knock it down..and initially the challenges seemed insurmountable.

That’s what we have found..We have UFH on all 3 levels with a govt “subsidised “ ASHP but we have found that turning on one level on is plenty warm enough.. Might be worth saving on the upper level and putting the savings to the heat pump.

I see @LaCurandera’s point one guarantee is probably as good as the other and it is probably true re the unlikelihood of claims after a certain period.. I searched this and struggled to find alternatives within the price bracket. The trade joiners do have companies that allow them to order “bespoke wardrobes” and then assemble on site but I am not sure the price would be similar to Ikea.. also a few Ikea upcycling or customising companies who use ikea carcasses you provide to give an end product that looks “ bespoke”. Horrendous word “Bespoke”…but you need to make contact, get a consultation and all that.

I had a similar situation but only got the premium AFTER I had owned the property and left it empty for 2 years from purchase and then I invited them to visit the property..It was declared uninhabitable and I was given 12 mths to make it habitable. Possibly one of the more lenient councils as this was relatively straightforward …so then managed to renovate the property and it’s back in normal occupancy so council happy.