puntloos

One year on, I'm certainly wondering if this worked out for @CotswoldDoItUpper As you might've seen in some other topic you can get at least 630W JA Solar (respected brand, TUV, CE) easily in china, in fact they claim it's a EU warehouse - I've seen even 710W (slightly dubious sounding brand but respected seller it seems). Both of them want me to import a pallet (31 panels) at least.. but I might even be able to fit that on my roof - either way the thing I have no idea about is the headache of importing to "A london port" - and then having someone take them off the ship, fill out all the paperwork, then truck it to my building site. Would love to know the steps (of importing just the panels - I'll get the inverter and batteries in the UK..) - anyone?

No, in my render it would look similar, just with dips

Ah yes but the top of the architrave would still meet a solid point:

did you know JA Solar already has a 630W panel? Right there on alibaba.. https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/JA-Solar-Panel-630W-N-type_1600925740930.html Weird how they calculate per watt, but it works out to 99 GBP per panel ex shipping, ex vat, ex bribing communist party so let's say 125/panel? Updated: Shop Brand Type SizeY SizeX Watt Price ex m2 GBP/kWh W/sqm PanelEst TotalW TotalCost TotalW/C URL tradesparky JA JAM54S30-410 1722 1134 410 80.76 1.95 197 801 21 8610 1695.96 5.08 easypv Euren Zebra 340 1684 1002 340 121 1.69 356 692 26 8840 3146 2.81 tradesparky JA JAM72S20-455 2112 1052 455 105 2.22 231 911 21 9555 2205 4.33 tradesparky JA JAM72S30-545 2278 1134 545 122 2.58 224 1059 21 11445 2562 4.47 tradesparky Trina TSM-425W 1762 1134 425 137 2 322 819 21 8925 2877 3.1 tradesparky canad CS6R-435H 1722 1134 435 122 1.95 280 801 21 9135 2562 3.57 tradesparky DMEG DM410M10 1708 1134 410 82 1.94 200 794 21 8610 1722 5 cityplumb Longi LR4-60HIH-370M 1755 1038 370 72.6 1.82 196 747 21 7770 1524.6 5.1 cityplumb Longi LR5-54HTH-435M 1722 1134 435 112 1.95 257 801 21 9135 2352 3.88 cityplumb Longi LR5-54HTB-425M 1722 1134 425 108 1.95 254 801 21 8925 2268 3.94 cityplumb Sharp Nujc400B 1722 1134 400 87 1.95 218 801 21 8400 1827 4.6 renogy renogi RNG-50D-SS-UK 581 509 50 54 0.3 1080 121 21 1050 1134 0.93 renugen jinko Eagle 315Wp 1650 992 315 77 1.64 244 671 26 8190 2002 4.09 renugen jinko Eagle 335Wp 1684 1020 335 87 1.72 260 704 26 8710 2262 3.85 cef longi LR5-54HIH-410M 1722 1134 410 80 1.95 195 801 21 8610 1680 5.13 cef trina DE09.08R 1762 1134 425 88 2 207 819 21 8925 1848 4.83 cef longi LR4-72HIH 2094 1038 450 90 2.17 200 891 21 9450 1890 5 cef longi LR5-66HIH-500M 2093 1134 500 106 2.37 212 973 21 10500 2226 4.72 Not Yet in UK longi LR5-72HBD-555M 2278 1134 550 140 2.58 255 1059 21 11550 2940 3.93 Alibaba JA JAM72D42 2465 1134 630 125 2.8 198 1146 21 13230 2625 5.04 2249 USD OK I should go to bed. Sorry for many posts, but buildhub doesn't let me edit.

Oh, cef.co.uk is even cheaper. Updated: Shop Brand Type SizeY SizeX Watt Price ex m2 GBP/kWh W/sqm PanelEst TotalW TotalCost TotalW/C tradesparky JA JAM54S30-410 1722 1134 410 80.76 1.95 197 801 21 8610 1695.96 5.08 easypv Euren Zebra 340 1684 1002 340 121 1.69 356 692 26 8840 3146 2.81 tradesparky JA JAM72S20-455 2112 1052 455 105 2.22 231 911 21 9555 2205 4.33 tradesparky JA JAM72S30-545 2278 1134 545 122 2.58 224 1059 21 11445 2562 4.47 tradesparky Trina TSM-425W 1762 1134 425 137 2 322 819 21 8925 2877 3.1 tradesparky canad CS6R-435H 1722 1134 435 122 1.95 280 801 21 9135 2562 3.57 tradesparky DMEG DM410M10 1708 1134 410 82 1.94 200 794 21 8610 1722 5 cityplumb Longi LR4-60HIH-370M 1755 1038 370 72.6 1.82 196 747 21 7770 1524.6 5.1 cityplumb Longi LR5-54HTH-435M 1722 1134 435 112 1.95 257 801 21 9135 2352 3.88 cityplumb Longi LR5-54HTB-425M 1722 1134 425 108 1.95 254 801 21 8925 2268 3.94 cityplumb Sharp Nujc400B 1722 1134 400 87 1.95 218 801 21 8400 1827 4.6 renogy renogi RNG-50D-SS-UK 581 509 50 54 0.3 1080 121 21 1050 1134 0.93 renugen jinko Eagle 315Wp 1650 992 315 77 1.64 244 671 26 8190 2002 4.09 renugen jinko Eagle 335Wp 1684 1020 335 87 1.72 260 704 26 8710 2262 3.85 cef longi LR5-54HIH-410M 1722 1134 410 80 1.95 195 801 21 8610 1680 5.13 cef trina DE09.08R 1762 1134 425 88 2 207 819 21 8925 1848 4.83 cef longi LR4-72HIH 2094 1038 450 90 2.17 200 891 21 9450 1890 5 cef longi LR5-66HIH-500M 2093 1134 500 106 2.37 212 973 21 10500 2226 4.72 Not Yet in UK longi LR5-72HBD-555M 2278 1134 550 140 2.58 255 1059 21 11550 2940 3.93 It's pretty clear that JA Solar and Longi are neck and neck. Effectively you want JA JAM72S<AA>-<BBB> or Longi LR5-<XXXXX><YYY>M for best value for money.

Fun fact - JA Solar 410 is 300 inc on Amazon and 334 inc on ebay Those are some nice markups if you don't know where to look

OK. So. I've worked out the best PV Panel in the UK, in value for money sense. Uh, it's @JohnMo's Longi 370WP - ha but my time was not fully wasted because instead I'm probably going for JA Solar JAM54s30 because it's the same basic size but much more power, or the JAM72S30-545 which is almost same price/sqm but much larger physically. Will have to check if it could fit a similar amount of panels. Here's all my research: Shop Brand Type SizeY SizeX Watt Price ex m2 GBP/kWh W/sqm PanelEst TotalW TotalCost TotalW/C tradesparky JA JAM54S30-410 1722 1134 410 80.76 1.95 197 801 21 8610 1695.96 5.076770679 easypv Euren Zebra 340 1684 1002 340 121 1.69 356 692 26 8840 3146 2.809917355 tradesparky JA JAM72S20-455 2112 1052 455 105 2.22 231 911 21 9555 2205 4.333333333 tradesparky JA JAM72S30-545 2278 1134 545 122 2.58 224 1059 21 11445 2562 4.467213115 tradesparky Trina TSM-425W 1762 1134 425 137 2 322 819 21 8925 2877 3.102189781 tradesparky canad CS6R-435H 1722 1134 435 122 1.95 280 801 21 9135 2562 3.56557377 tradesparky DMEG DM410M10 1708 1134 410 82 1.94 200 794 21 8610 1722 5 cityplumb Longi LR4-60HIH-370M 1755 1038 370 72.6 1.82 196 747 21 7770 1524.6 5.096418733 cityplumb Longi LR5-54HTH-435M 1722 1134 435 112 1.95 257 801 21 9135 2352 3.883928571 cityplumb Longi LR5-54HTB-425M 1722 1134 425 108 1.95 254 801 21 8925 2268 3.935185185 cityplumb Sharp Nujc400B 1722 1134 400 87 1.95 218 801 21 8400 1827 4.597701149

OK that's fair then. I think what's happening is that if someone is confident they know what to get (I guess that's also "experience", which is not unreasonable to have a cost), they can just buy off indeed cityplumbing or tradesparky, and then just pop it on the roof. The quotes I got were all in the same ballpark so certainly something is up. It might have to do with my location (hertfordshire, that's where all the posh people live, no?) but also I guess the "cowboy" element is the challenge, people just asking random prices and hey it seems to work. Even easy-pv - which seems to be somewhat "cheaper" because you DIY is asking 140inc for the 370GBP Longi panel that's indeed 72 inc vat, but with a bit of luck I can push EasyPV site into giving me a selection for Longi 370 and go from there. of course one "difficult" part is to install something *in-roof* rather than on-roof. Anyone here have DIY experience with in-roof/GSE? Easy? Hard?

So what am I missing price-wise, did I only find the wrong teams? Of course, the easyPV route certainly is cheaper per kwh but you (seemed to) call all of them a rip off I guess the challenge is that your claim seems to be true for DIY systems (easyPV for example) but the cost the installers I ran across are charging basically overrides that claim in end cost. This, compared to a 'at cost' price I'm estimating for the solar tiles, most videos I see online look like even I could do it (err.. not safely.. 50 degree roof is scary.., but you get the point) so indeed a standard roofer could do it. Because they certainly will be honest about how hard their amazing product is in reality? But yea, I'll give them a call and see about infinity too. I agree, I guess all things being equal it starts to nudge things, and as you can see the tile price/kwh is actually cheaper than the two main installers... True.

I see, something like this..

Yes, these prices are pretty high, but especially the DIY option is about as low as things will go, are you saying solar is never worthwhile? Also, I think I need some solar for passivhaus certification..

Yes, but it still wouldn't quite work since you would have to "transition" the chamfering. In my current rental home it looks like this; I don't think I understand how a block could 'connect' this cleanly?

OK.. I'm confused. We like the pattern "Angle 2 Groove MDF" And this can be delivered in skirting, architrave etc by the company in question. But how do you join such a skirting with the architrave Option A: here the architrave looks OK, somewhat falling "into" the door And some random YT video seems to favor this too: Option B (sorry harder to see) - here the lines are easier to match up (my program doesn't do it right but you get the idea. I would say the latter option is more sensible, but the same company shows this picture: Which seems to hint they think the chamfering sits on the inside (which does look nicer IMO!) Halp? I'm somewhat tempted to - for the architrave - to do a "double ended" molding where it basically has 2 chamfers (top and bottom) and 4 grooves. Or is that even weirder?

I just realise there is one important extra option I failed to consider. https://www.gb-sol.co.uk/products/pvslates/default.htm - solar slate tiles A very important fact about these is that it sounds less fraught to get these right, since you can treat them as normal tiles, no weirdness around flashing, trays etc etc, so safer to DIY? To my math, - the SE (main) roof is 48.1 m2 - GB-Sol says one 'unit' replaces four 500x250 slates, covering an area of 0.2sqm - Therefore we'd need 240 units, at GBP59.50 each, 28W each - Roof's power would be 6720W, materially higher than what I managed with panels (5100, maybe) - The SW (side) roof I make about 33m2 -> 165 tiles -> 4620W Total roof = 11340, price 24097 GBP. 11.3kW is much more than anyone else could fit on this except a company that I think made a mistake in their quote. There's other solar tile companies out there too - one Rest of components (from midsummer) Qty Item Unit Line 1 SolaX X3 G4 12.0kW hybrid inverter £2450.00 £2450.00 1 Emlite EMP1 Three Phase meter £116.90 £116.90 1 Label sheet £2.52 £2.52 2 AC isolator - Projoy 20A 4-pole £8.40 £16.80 1 SolaX Triple 5.8kWh LFP Battery (Master Console) £2702.00 £2702.00 1 SolaX Triple 5.8kWh LFP Battery (Slave Console) £2226.00 £2226.00 22 Tigo Retrofit Frame Mounted Optimiser TS4-A-O £53.20 £1170.40 4 Pair of MC4 connectors £2.80 £11.20 1 50m reel of 4mm2 solar cable £42.00 £42.00 Total (ex VAT and delivery) £8737.82 This ends up at 32834 GBP ex delivery ex VAT ex install, so certainly pricy, but I care mainly about "per kwh installed" which is lower than contract and artisan. Of course it does drive the total price up, but I could consider doing just the big (SE) roof, get 7KW, and use the remaining forticrete tiles on the SW roof. Here's my pricing spreadsheet - I've anonimised the company names (Orange = estimate) company (panel) price ex ohp install (if not inc) # panels power total kwh battery kwh battery price/kwh panel price/kwh notes A (Canadian) £22,769.00 21 430 9.03 10 500 £1,967.77 - dubious if 21 can fit B (JA Solar) £24,514.00 16 370 5.92 10.64 608 £3,048.12 - pricy per kwh Easy PV (Eurener) £16,210.00 £2,000.00 26 340 8.84 11.6 500 £1,403.85 - small panels 1x1.6 - requires verification (minor flashing clash) C (Solaredge) £31,738.00 21 405 8.505 13.8 500 £2,920.40 - premium brand GB-Sol Tiles £32,834.00 £2,000.00 405 28 11.34 11.6 500 £2,560.32 - tile system GB-Sol Tile (SE only £23,017.00 £1,500.00 240 28 6.72 11.6 500 £2,785.27 - tile system Of course aesthetics are important: GSE Flashing Solar Tiles

Not a crazy idea by itself, although I do find that my roof is unlucky in that if I pick a 1684 x 1002mm 340W panel (5100W), I can fit 15, and if I use a more common 1762 x 1134mm I can only fit 11x 430W (4730W, and barely)

I think that's a good idea, what I'm concerned about is that designing in-roof panels (e.g. GSE) is hard. Meaning, of course putting one 1x1 panel into a 10x10 roof is easy but if you want to fit as many as humanly possible how can you fit the most panels without running into trouble on-site etc. Does anyone have experience with e.g. https://easy-pv.co.uk/ design vs reality? For example the panels fit within the limits, but the flashings overlap the edge, is that ok...?

For the PV, sure. But my standard sparky installed a DC cable from the charger to the inverter location. Nothing more.

To my research, most V2H chargers do not have their own inverter built in (the dcbel one is an exception). Most of them just provide you with a beefy DC line that you can then "do something fun with". The main challenge really is actually finding someone willing to sell it to you. And the reason for that, to my mind, is that most of these 'experimental' chargers and charging trials are so hard to get into because they are run by power companies who want to buy your excess power. (V2G) and thereby fund it - I'm only a little interested in that. I want V2H. I'm too chicken to DIY it Yes, a charger with invertor makes some things easier but stull, you would only have a 240V AC line that you can wire an independent power socket to. If you want to integrate it into your house (and power eg your fridge) a lot of extra work is needed Done already 😃

One important thing I want from my inverter is that it will have enough 'free ports' to connect more panels to.. because.. I want to connect a car Basically modern cars are able to let you use their battery as a 400V DC source, but you will need to plug it into your inverter (so an inverter with one socket for one panel array won't do).

Perhaps so, it tends to be the whole 'value for money' thing I guess. People will make time if you pay them enough but as we all do we want a good job for 'barely reasonable' pay @JohnMo - am I understanding correctly you're going full DIY? How much are things costing you?

For some reason PV seems to be an area where stock, availability and skill seems to all be more difficult than other areas. Anyone know why this is? Is it a bit of a 'wild west' area still, or are the weird incentive programs or unique stock issues running havoc with people? Or am I just unlucky? Not sure if actual recommendations are allowed here, but if anyone knows how I can find a decent team that can start "soon" I'm open for suggestions, either here or in message.

good point, indeed the tiles that look like someone spilled thin white paint on them might indeed just need a powerwash. And seriously: would that be a theoretical option? Getting someone with a pressure washer? Or will that do damage to tiles that dont expect this? Ha marley was my 2nd choice as well! "glad" to hear it's not my bad life choices. I was, and sorta-kinda still am convinced that concrete are a pretty good choice for tiles, but it is a bit grating This is an interesting one, indeed I would say that literal dirt might accrue on the scratches 'fixing' this by dirtying the tiles. another option, literally spray painting the roof? Would that be a stupid idea? Frankly, yes with my drone it's easy to get close enough to see the tiles are 'weird' and/or scratched, but from the ground I didn't notice until I was told to look for it. Up close: Absolutely, the amount of unusable tiles was high for me too.. so far the supplier has been fairly good about it.

The tiles I've selected (quite a while ago at this point) are forticrete - https://www.roofingsuperstore.co.uk/product/forticrete-sl8-slate-effect-concrete-roof-tile-pack-of-108.html And a good amount of them look great, but a large amount of them have all types of "white" on them: My question: What's reasonable to expect? Of course the picture on the site is 'perfect' where arguably more than 50% have some level of either "white water stains" or some type of scratching: Could it be a good few raindrops will clear this right off? Or if not, is there some way to fix this e.g. I dunno, spray paint? Or should I complain? Frankly, from the ground level it doesn't look too bad since the viewing angle is pretty shallow, but not a great way to start your new roof..

Can you send us a picture on how this looks? - my wife has certain ideas on how 'elegant' a garden should look..

For a kid, some grass would be nice 😃 - but I do agree it would be nice to let things go I think for drought it might make sense not to use mains water, but for a rain collection tank you can argue differently, I imagine.