joth

What controls are they providing, and what do you currently use to disable/enable the conservatory zone? The one potential snag of a temporary "permanent" disconnect during the ASHP install (to reconnect after) is they disable whatever controls you have working now, and you need to redo some electrical work to get it going again. It's probably not that complicated but potentially bit of a faff for someone to have to figure out and reconnect after the fact . Anyway, the temporary disconnect is exactly what I would do (if I wasn't doing the heat pump myself, or getting a more amenable installer to do it)

Oh my oh my, welcome back! Much as I wish the reason for your return were more happy news... Your input on here was helpful for me during our build (2020/21, with all the extra challenges those years brought) I'd more than happily come over and give a hand on your replacement if you'd like an extra set of hands. Personally I'd think seriously about a uvc, fwiw.

Ok much as it horrifies me to welcome a device into my home that was previously used to monitor your comings and goings 😂, I'd be interested in this if you are letting it go. What song would you like? Feel free to DM your answer...

Is that fp2 direct to HomeKit or via their hub? (Which hub?) The advertising suggests the hub connects to everything under the sun, so a bit of a kick to hear HomeKit + frigging is required to set it up with any of those alternative platforms

Not sure that's quite right either: aiui the Green Levy applies to all three of (domestic) Gas bills, Electricity bills and Dual fuel bills. "Just 6% of a typical gas bill is from green levies, rising to 16% of an electricity bill, and 11% of the average dual fuel bill." https://eciu.net/insights/2024/are-green-levies-going-up-in-april-2024

Tell me more about the fp2 Can it send event notifications over Mqtt or a webhook? What hub do you recommend? Their website makes it out as the absolute kitchen sink of protocols but their manual and faq are offline https://www.aqara.com/eu/product/hub-m3/ I have a couple places where radar detection could be handy (e.g. the office) but one where fine grained zoning is needed (kitchen, detecting cooking vs using sink vs passing through) - I think a camera will ultimately be best there.

Great tip thank you! I got a shelly BLU recently and really unimpressed by the complexity getting it to integrate with anything outside their ecosystem. I'll grab a couple these and see how it goes The enclosure is ugly as, but seems plausible to put it into some other case.

I agree with the gist of the OP, but the discussion brings to mind a few general comments 1/ Beware of creating false dichotomies. Yes, we should be targeting homes already on resistive electric heating for upgrade to heat pumps, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't also be targeting homes combusting fossil fuels too. Both need to happen, and technically there's no reason both can't happen at once. 2/ Keep an eye on the long term goal. Sure replacing one boiler with a heat pump will not reduce scope 2 emissions for that home's heating to zero today, but the goal is net zero by 2050, not today. If it's a step towards that goal it's a step worth seriously considering. 3/ Massive scale systems change is required, not tinkering at the edges. This is a multi industry, multi decade project. Optimising each individual's personal emissions at every single step is not practical or in fact useful. What's important is on average everything trends towards net zero. Regrettable as it is, there will be examples of houses making nonoptimal choices that taken in isolation can be seen as a back step, but by moving towards renewable heat sources they are still support the systems changes needed; e.g. directing more of their ongoing spending away from gas and into electricity (and hence renewable generation projects), and supporting the economies of scale needed to reduce the cost of materials and increase training & knowledge in heat pumps.

If this is compared to an existing gas boiler, then no that's not correct. A correctly installed ASHP will reduce CO2 emissions as the COP is better than grid system losses so less combustion is needed to drive it vs burning gas directly to create heat On top of that, a portion of the electricity is from nuclear or renewables thus much lower CO2

I generally dislike doing plumbing work, and this project was no different, but it is a massive help having this chap's monotone voiceover echoing in my mind whenever I do make pipework changes. https://www.facebook.com/reel/1692555494842644?mibextid=rS40aB7S9Ucbxw6v

Do you have any room thermostats? How often are they calling for heat? If you have rooms stats, as an experiment turn them all up to maximum so the ASHP is running continuously and see how hot the ground floor room temperature gets. Then dial back the flow temperature to a level where it's just maintaining the desired temperature throughout the GF. Note the outside temperature while running the experiment, and that's one data point you should set on the weather compensation curve. Repeat when outside temperature is nicely above zero; WC curve sorted. 👍

Chat JothPT... To prevent an external condensation pipe from freezing, here are a few measures you can take: 1. **Insulation**: Wrap the pipe with foam pipe insulation or heating tape. This will help maintain the temperature above freezing by providing an extra layer of protection against the cold. 2. **Use a Heated Cable**: Install a self-regulating heating cable along the pipe. These cables will heat up when the temperature drops and can prevent the pipe from freezing. 3. **Redirect the Pipe**: If possible, reroute the pipe to a more sheltered or warmer location, such as along an interior wall or within the house, where temperatures are less likely to drop too low. 4. **Maintain Flow**: Ensure the pipe is not completely blocked and allows for continuous drainage. Stagnant water is more likely to freeze, so encouraging a small, consistent flow can help. 5. **Cover the Pipe**: Install a protective cover or duct around the pipe, which can help shield it from harsh weather conditions and wind chill. 6. **Regular Maintenance**: Check the pipe periodically to ensure it’s not accumulating debris or ice, which can block the flow and contribute to freezing. By combining some or all of these approaches, you can effectively prevent your external condensation pipe from freezing during the colder months.

Absolutely. The problem with the current subsidy on gas is it's ostensibly there to avert people from falling into fuel poverty, but has the unintended side effect of skewing the market to make ASHP unattractive for other people that have homes that could work with it and could afford the capital cost if the payback worked out. And worse, is effectively penalising those that have already made the shift off of combustion, as many of us on here have - albeit for unavailability of gas to site or for more moralistic reasons, it doesn't matter. Disconnect gas and you're they paying the inflated cost of electricity in order to subsidise your gas burning neighbours. So my OP is basically "how can we move in a direction where the gas subsidy is removed, but without having a cliff edge where some large percentage are thrown into fuel poverty overnight (as such cliff edges are politically unpalatable so never introduced, or if they are they get repeatedly walked back and back). I think an important step is any house without a gas connection should be eligible for an ongoing energy subsidy on their electricity bill, proportionate to whatever domestic gas supply subsidy is in effect at that time. As and when the national energy subsidy is reduced, then it's reduced from both the legacy gas users and the converted all-electric users alike.

Yes, if you're doing DALI this makes total sense. I used 5-core 1.5mm for all my RGBW LED strip as I had all dimmers centrally, but not sure I'd have bothered if I was doing drivers local to the fitting, but if it's the cable you have to hand then yeah why not. Not Tree over 5-core flex would not be advised as it's not twisted pair (nor screened). It'll probably work fine if the lengths are not too long and its not a heavily loaded branch, but could create headaches. Even I would probably reach for a wireless solution like Air or shelly/wifi before resorting to that.

Ok but some T&E will be switched mains circuits and other have 24V permanent power so the only saving is needing a single cable drum for them both. You still need to manage the topology in a way that makes sense per fitting. Put another way: I don't know of any Loxone tree lighting devices that can run straight of mains. Unlike say DALI RGBW drivers which typically do.

If you'd rather LED strip have a look at the dimmer compact https://shop.loxone.com/enuk/rgbw-24v-compact-dimmer-tree.html (Or Air) They're electrically identical to the din rail variant but skinny enough to post through a down light cut out or similar so you can dot them around near the strip. But being low voltage input you still need to run chunky cable to them to avoid voltage drop. I've only briefly used the Loxone spots during their training, not enough to get an opinion on their effectiveness in domestic setting. But their office is done with them pretty much exclusively and seemed okay enough (I was only there in daylight and using office like moods really).

What are your lighting requirements? To me basement with retractive switches sounds like basic GU10s would be fine... But it seems like RGBW is non negotiable? If so yeah the Loxone offerings are going to give all the lighting you need without any more panel DIN space needed. I forgot, you have ps&b or something else with plenty 24V power headroom already in there? Personally I'd got CAT6a + T&E to each fitting as it gives you future options, and every sparky carries infinite T&E and knows how to handle it. (E.g. My sparky complained anything smaller was too "snappy" when pulling through voids) But if doing it yourself year 2 core 1.5mm will be a bit easier to work at each fitting.

@Russdl thanks! And yes, utterly bizarre. All I can think is the compression joint to the 28mm was not quite tight enough so over a number of expansion and contraction cycles it was pushing against it and managed to rotate on it, a bit like a ratchet. The fact I do DHW reheat and space cooling on higher outputs during cheap over night electric (and this happened exactly in cooling season, starting May) perhaps compounding it. It must have had a pretty bad kink to start and then this just collapsed it. The other thing I noticed is the pipe seems to have lost a lot of its "flex", almost like it has perished and seized up a bit Anyway for a part costing so much (for what it is) it's very disappointing to have this happen It'd be interesting if there's industry figures on failure modes and reasons for breakdown call outs. These do seem a prone part (having installed new ones and seen how easy it is for bad bend radius to kink them, but hidden under the insulation)

Finally fixed this tonight. New flexi installed Monday (what a bloody pita the rubber washers are, in the cold and dark) but took two days to get the system bled such that the flow sensor can detect flow again. (I needlessly replaced primary circ pump yesterday thinking it was pooched, but it was just hard to extract trapped air. Venting it out via the outdoor connections eventually was the trick. Lesson learned: don't run ASHP up and over the ceilings, without figuring a high point bleed valve for them. Wish my architect , builder, plumber or MCS installer had mentioned that... 🤦‍♂️)

Sorry yes I was making same point as you are on this one, that the legislation pretty much reflects the technology with cars. I feel the difference is, in society, cars are special. Not transportation. Cars. Folks love the solution more than the problem. Whereas in homes, it's the problem space - being cosy, solving fuel poverty - that's special. It's very rare for anyone to get excited about the solution space.

So do you mean leave the existing gas subsidy and electricity surcharge in place indefinitely, or remove them too? If so how and when? That's the crux I was driving towards. Excellent point I forgot about this. Same as insulation and heating controls and solar, the VAT should be removed from the materials without a requirement for paid labour to qualify. (I have similar thoughts on bicycles vs the regressive cycle to work incentive scheme but that's for a different forum lol) Tricky thing here is legislation always tries to avoid naming and locking in specific technology as it suppresses the market incentive to invent something completely different that's even better. I see the argument there, but somehow EV legislation has got over that hurdle.

I've seen a bunch of press and commentary in recent days that's broadly for (at least agnostic about) heat pumps but against MCS and the current state of subsidies 1/ MCS weakening the process for pre-contract heat loss calcs (read the comments!) disliked by all sides it seems 2/ HPA report 39% of workforce (MCS) trained in HP install don't go on to work on heat pumps, due to lack of demand that they put down to confusion and high electricity prices 3/ Today's report that government set to drop the 2035 ban on gas boilers. (plus my own experience this week that the MCS "tax" on installs is bloating prices of all components, making post-install maintenance/replacement of parts 10x what it should be) common themes are - the mandatory/monopoly on training is a barrier to take up and not yielding better consumer experience - the various government incentives are just meddling and confusing the market - the existing domestic gas subsidy, and electricity "green transition tax" work against the HP goals and intention Far too early to write an obituary for MCS, but grumbling is getting louder so lets imagine what may be next. It's political suicide to talk about dropping the gas subsidy within my lifetime, but it's clear the financial incentives for electric / heat pumps need to move away from install time and to long-term usage being guaranteed to be lower than gas. So as a first step, how about making gas disconnection free, and allow domestic properties to opt into electricity price subsidy for any house that removes gas? i.e. whatever costs savings they would be having via their gas bill could be received in electricity prices instead. This will skew the market in another way, and no doubt have its own unintended consequences, but broadly does mean as people increasingly electrify cars/cooking/etc it becomes a "no brainer" to disconnect gas to get a lower price for everything. Then step two is introduce a higher price for gas reconnection, and lower subsidy if switching back. Make a rachet mechanism. And eventually when a critical mass have switched, the gas subsidy be removed and replaced by a welfare mechanism for those that need it most (equally targeted to insulation and HP migration investments as keeping hydrocarbons artificially cheap to burn) But IANAP

Check the local plan, if your lpa has one. Ours has wording that approvals should by default (i.e. without good reason to do otherwise) favour sustainable development. Not sure it has much legal strength, and perhaps useless by the time it comes to appeals, but it is at least some attempt at capturing the "will of the local people" and should cause some hand wringing if it goes unheeded

9kW is not a bad size if you have 4 people in there demanding long hot showers and repaid uvc reheat times. But for space heating it's almost certainly sized on some pessimistic ACH and insulation levels, plus a bit.

Do the manifolds have circulation pumps and thermostatic mixing valves? Are they set high enough? (Basically should only be set as an emergency high temperature shut off, depending on floor surface fragility)