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Spinny

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  1. Spinny
    The full pipe route to the PRV is as follows: 32mm barrier pipe mains supply Right angle connection to approx 1m of 22mm copper pipe with lever stop tap 22mm connects into and out of water softener connector currently set to bypass short piece of 22mm copper pipe with right angle bend connection into 6M of 25mm MLCP running under floor 1.5m of 22mm copper pipe to connect from MLCP to the PRV So the full route from the 25mm internal bore mains to the PRV is 20mm internal bore with the exception of the press fit connectors at each end of the MLCP which have internal bore of 14mm. The PRV is about 1.5m vertically higher than the mains pipe (just 0.15bar) as everything is on the ground floor.
  2. Spinny
    I think this is what the utility tap gauge already shows anyway though, because it is connected to the balanced cold coming from the PRV. Connected via copper pipe and about 4m of 16mm MLCP.
  3. Spinny
    Problem DOWNSTREAM of the PRV ? Do you think the problem could be in the cylinder or in the pipework downstream of the PRV ? How would that work ?
  4. Spinny
    What is a bit odd is that the original lead pipe provided 22 l/m and we raised the flow problem (regarding the shower being weak and becoming very weak when a tap was turned on) with the builders plumber. His response was to suggest it could be the PRV and he removed the original Gledhill PRV and replaced it with the Caleffi PRV. However it made no difference to the performance of the system when he did that. He never said whether he found any blockage or damage to the Gledhill PRV, just whisked it away to his van. I suspect he would have shown me the damage had he seen any. The PRV was changed about a year ago now. It lead to the mains supply being declared as 'the problem'. Now that is fixed but we still have a problem.
  5. Spinny
    It continues to read 40 PSI with no change. I think this is to be expected I believe ?
  6. Spinny
    OK. Definitely a huge problem somewhere between the mains connection and the downstream side of the PRV. The system pressure of around 40PSI as measured on the utility tap (cold or hot) drops dramatically to 20 PSI if any single outlet is turned full on. That shouldn't happen because the system should be refilling and pressurised from the mains to a much higher pressure than 20 PSI. With two outlets turned on the system pressure falls to just 16 PSI. I took some readings with the shower outlet partially opened with the following results... Utility Tap Pressure reading: All outlets off 40PSI Shower running at 2l/m 29PSI !! (A dramatic drop in system pressure as soon as Shower running at 4.4l/m 25PSI Shower running at 8.5l/m 22PSI Shower running at 11.6l/m 20 PSI Even flushing the loo sends the pressure down to 24 PSI There is also a sound from the area of the PRV valve a bit like a cistern refilling noise when opening and closing any outlet. Makes me think maybe the PRV is jammed and not responding properly when water is drawn from the system ? If it isn't that either the water softener bypass (seems unlikely), or the MLC pipe run have a problem - maybe some crap stuck in the pipe ? Is it possible to kink MLC pipe ? Or over compress the end fittings ? I guess if the PRV is removed the water flow and pressure at the input to the PRV could be measured which would show whether the water softener bypass/MLC pipe was choking off pressure/flow. It frustrates me that the plumber fitted no gauges to show the pressure or temperature of the cylinder. If I get a new PRV fitted (again) which one is best ?
  7. Spinny
    Photo showing the water softener bypass valve...
  8. Spinny
    No. You can see the utility sink cold outlet on the bottom right of the sketch. The 2.6bar is the pressure in the outside tap 15mm copper feed pipe (centre left of the sketch) while it is open and discharging 37l/m through the outside tap. I can measure it because the same copper pipe to the outside tap also feeds the cistern in the understairs toilet (not shown on diagram), and I can attach the PG to the cistern outlet and measure the pressure while the outside tap is running. So the mains supply is about 3.5bar static, and with 37l/m flowing through it the dynamic pressure in the mains supply is still 2.6bar. So even if the outlets downstream of the PRV are discharging a combined 37l/m, the PRV would still be able to receive an input pressure of 2.6bar. So there seems no reason for the pressure in the system downstream of the PRV to fall below 2.6bar. Yet the downstream pressure measured at the utility cold tap is only 1.4bar when the shower is running. It seems like something is choking off the supply through the PRV. So do you think it is going to be the PRV where the problem is ? There is about 6m of 25mm (internal bore 20mm) MLC pipe connecting the mains supply to the PRV, and this MLC pipe has a crimped connector at each end where it connects to copper. The internal diameter at the connectors reduces to 14mm. (but the outside tap still discharges 37l/m via 15mm copper pipe).
  9. Spinny
  10. Spinny
    Yes the 1.4bar is the pressure on the utility cold tap when the shower is on (set to a warm mix of hot & cold) and outputting 11.6 l/m. And the utility cold tap is fed from the balanced cold on the downstream side of the PRV. With no flow on any outlet, the static pressure at that utility cold tap is around 40-42PSI or 2.75Bar ish. When the shower outlet is turned on that pressure falls to just 1.4bar.
  11. Spinny
  12. Spinny
  13. Spinny
    Just done another measurement to measure the static and dynamic pressure for the 15mm copper pipe outside tap outlet which is upstream of 'the glorious system'. Static pressure from the mains is 50PSI (3.45 Bar), and the dynamic pressure whilst discharging at 37 l/m is 38PSI (2.6 Bar). Therefore 'the glorious system' has a raw input capable of delivering 37 l/m at 2.6Bar. Yet when the output from 'the glorious system' is just 11.6 l/m from the shower outlet pipe, the pressure in 'the glorious system' falls to just 1.4bar. So to me that seems like conclusive proof that there is a problem in 'the glorious system'. Any suggestions on how to find the fault ? Change the PRV ? Take the water softener bypass out of the flow line ? Replace the MLC pipe feed to the PRV/Cylinder ? (Move the outside tap up the wall and shower naked outside under 37 l/m of cold water ?)
  14. Spinny
    I appreciate these are different comments from different people, but why is this apparently some kind of trial and error black art ? First I need a new main (£2000), now I need a giant pressurised replacement for the old water tank in the loft (££££) ? This should be about the physics of fluid dynamics, not ask a different plumber get a different answer. (not trying to offend or insult anyone, I appreciate all comments/responses - just wanting to get to the root of the matter,) At present 'the glorious system' appears to be turning a 37l/m torrent from the mains supply, into a pathetic 11.6l/m (shower head off) (and just 7.3l/m with showerhead on). It seems to me 'the glorious system' £££££££££ is just a giant flow inhibitor ? It was 'advertised as' capable of 2 simultaneous showers, while the mrs is running the kitchen tap, and the washing machine is running. The wonderful new system that avoids people shouting around the house to 'turn that outlet off'. It still seems something is amiss here to me !?
  15. Spinny
    So one year on and I now today have a new 32mm MDPE barrier pipe (23m) connected into the water main replacing the old 1930s lead pipe. Via outside tap/u-stairs toilet cistern which share 15mm pipework directly off the mains, I have gone from 50PSI static and 22.3 l/m before, to 52PSI static(3.6bar) and 37 l/m. Via utility tap fed by the UVC with a 3 bar PRV, I have gone from 40PSI static (which is actually only 2.75 bar !) and 17 l/m before, to 40PSI static and 19l/m afterwards. However my shower has gone from 11.6 l/m (shower head removed) to 11.6 l/m (shower head removed) - no change. This is still very significantly less than from the old gravity system with monsoon pump (3 bar static & 2.5bar @ 9l/m) even though through the same mixer valve. CONCLUSION: the plumbers pipework to the shower is crap and will need to be replaced ? I am very puzzled by the following result though... I can put a static pressure guage onto the utility tap. With no outlets open it reads 40PSI (2.75bar) which is roughly similar to the system pressure from the PRV of 3 bar. If I then run the shower (head off) at 11.6 l/m the pressure at the utility tap falls to just 20PSI (1.4bar). It I then also open en ensuite tap, the pressure at the utility tap falls again to just 15 PSI or about 1 bar. So why is this system fed from a main at 3.5bar and supposed to run at 3bar, losing half its pressure when you draw off just 11.6l/m ? Especially as the main is capable of delivering 37l/m !? Something would seem to be choking this pressurised system off... The restricted bore on the MLC pipe connectors which feed the system ? The water softener, not currently fitted but connection is there in bypass mode ? The PRV or some other location having a blockage/restriction ? A pipework problem ? A faulty cylinder ?
  16. Spinny
    Maybe you could use back box repair lugs (do a search on amazon) rather than a box with integral lugs ? Or maybe try a plasterboard back box with judicious carving of the edges using a stanley knife ? Or try a screwless switch plate where the back plate can be screwed in top and bottom using repair lugs, rather than having to be screwed in left & right ? Or remove the back box, chisel out the hole, reseat the back box 5mm to the side, make good with filler and touch up the wall paint ?
  17. Spinny
    That corner pic shows by far the worst point, the timber lines are fine elsewhere. Pics were also some time ago before I made my own temporary covering with proplex. If it is still like that could be planed down I guess. I guess there is a question about what thickness of aluminium should be used. Something thin is easily going to get distorted, but something thick should presumably stay straight and true. I found an old sample piece which is 2mm thick (a short bent piece albeit only a foot long) seems very rigid. The front overhang above the bifolds is about 5m long - is anyone likely to do pieces that long ? Don't want visible screws. Could it not be done in 4 pieces as per my sketch attached with hidden fixings at the 'X's - basically interlocking at the drip edges ?
  18. Spinny
    Hi Russell, Yes I definitely want to use aluminium as per the architects drawing. We have invested in alu doors and windows, cedral cladding, rooflights etc, we need to finish the job to the same high quality. It has been too painful a process to do otherwise.
  19. Spinny
    Just found this photo. So the rubber seals are part of the chamber. uh-oh. There is no way I want to have to change the chamber given it is connected elsewhere. Changing the chamber would mean taking a whole load of other stuff up too. How likely is it to damage the seal when removing the pipe ?
  20. Spinny
    Thanks. The pipes are not set in concrete, just shingle and hardcore over. Am I right to think the rubber seals are attached to the pipe and NOT to the chamber inlets ? (There is no way I want to risk replacing the chamber itself as it connects backward to the main kitchen drain and forwards to the main drain.)
  21. Spinny
    The drawings show the edges and internal gutter detail of a warm roof. The green colour is PIR insulation which is covered with a single ply PVC membrane. The membrane runs out to the edge timber to provide the waterproof base of the edge gutters. A wide gutter in the overhang above the bifolds, and narrower at the sides of the building. The X's are timbers shown edge on. I have used a red line to indicate the edge areas I am talking about. Labels 10 and 15 are the powder coated aluminium fascia/capping pieces on the overhang which run around the sides too. I am wondering now whether the alu trim is supposed to lock together at the drip edge ?
  22. Spinny
    Thanks to my builder problems I have now been through 2 winters without a finished roofline on the extension. Have had to make do with proplex which I have had to attach as a temporary cover. The specification is for powder coated aluminium capping and fascia pieces as shown on the drawings attached. However I am at a bit of a loss on how to interpret these drawings - where does one piece of aluminium profile stop and the next piece start ? - because clearly you can't fabricate or install in one piece for the overhang or one side wall. (One side is straight forward as it is just a capping piece). Can anyone make sense of the drawing in terms of how many pieces are envisaged and how they fit together ? Also grateful if anyone can suggest or recommend suppliers that ideally can come to site to measure up, fabricate, and then install for me with secret fixings (rather than peppered with screwheads). I am Bristol area. PS Also that piece above the bifolds at the bottom of the render board - are there edge pieces or render beads available for that ?
  23. Spinny
    I'm not getting another one. I have just identified what it is that is there already.
  24. Spinny
    Another thought - should I be concerned with leaves and debris washed down from the roof blocking this up ? (the water in it looks rather black and putrid).
  25. Spinny
    Thanks Eric, I think I have found it - looks to be an OsmaDrain bottle gully as shown below. I do need something with a water trap to stop smells because this particular rainwater pipe connects into the foul water drain to the sewer. It also rotates which is helpful. I am not sure what the purpose of the fixed internal baffle is ? It is roddable which is also useful but not really essential here as it could be rodded from the nearby chamber. All in all I guess I might as well reuse it, it is just going to be a case of sorting out how to pipe it into the fixed chamber. Am I right in thinking this is all going to be push fit ? Am I supposed to have some sort of support under the bottom of the gully ?
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