ryder72

You will probably recall that I had a timber frame house built few years ago. We have now lived in the house for 2.5 years and have experienced a problem recently. Our master ensuite is on the first floor, approx 2.8m * 2.45m of which a section of 2.45 * 1m is a walk in shower. The shower tray was a former and for this we had requested the joists under the tray to be shorter allowing for a 40mm recess to set the tray inside. The rest of the bathroom is on regular joists running in the 2.45m direction. I think the joists are set at 600mm centres. The bathroom has been tiled using 10mm thick porcelain tiles. The 22mm chipboard on the joists is covered by 18mm marine ply and the tiles attached used a 12mm bed of adhesive. Noggings have been installed between joists to stabilise them. Over the past 2.5 years the tiles are now popping loose. We have lifted the tiles today and found that the adhesive is completely cracked but firmly attached to the tiles. It has largely separated from the ply. There is a reasonable amount of flex in the floor and the tiler is of the opinion that there is excessive flex and unless this flex is eliminated,the problem could reoccur. Does anyone have any experience of this and are there any ways to eliminate this problem?

These days quartz has entered the Howdens market, ie entry level kitchens so I would say any property in the south east selling at above the £500k mark come with an expectation of solid tops if the kitchen is not in a 'needs replacing soon' state.

Laminates come in 60/70/90/120/130 cm depths. Stone is cut to bespoke depths. Quartz slabs are typically 1350mm wide to allow two cuts and 100mm upstands to be achieved from one slab. Duropal or Westag Getalit are probably the best out there but there must be others. We do so little of it that I am not very up to date with laminate suppliers.

I agree. Laminate is a very good cost/quality/performance proposition. But acceptance of laminate which is seen as cheap and cheerful over solid tops is going to happen to be honest.

Thats in the general category of brands such as Dekton/Neolith/Lapitec etc. Be aware that this is an extremely brittle material and snaps very easily on impact. Porcelain in thin sheets I dont think its a good idea for kitchen worktops Unless you are on a concrete floor with solid lids on units. The material offers no flex whatsoever. We have had problems and now refuse to sell anything less than 20mm without a signed disclaimer from the client. We have supplied loads of 12mm quartz worktops without any issues. So please be aware of these facts.

Not on OP's post

If you want a light worktop that is robust and not cost a fortune, quartz is the best option

Ok so this is how it works- The boiling tank comes with a filter with a life of 5 years. This is for soft water areas (scotland/Cornwall). Rest of the country a scale reduction filter unit is recommended which has a life of 15-18 months. My understanding is warranties are valid in the rest of the uk ONLY is the scale reduction filter is installed. The cold water filter is a completely different unit for reducing impurities in water. The price is hugely marked up but there could be compatibility issues between the fusion/flex taps and a third party water filter.

Look into Novy. Excellent product and very very quiet.

Have you had the scale reduction filter installed? Highly recommended.

Daylight is generally referred to the 4000k temperature range. 6000k is cool white.

Between Novy and Bosch you are comparing chalk and cheese. Novy makes some superb products, very high build quality, very quiet.

I am absolutely not having a go at anyone here. Honestly. I just took a summary of opinions and responded as these are surprisingly common in the industry. What you say is right, but thats where the quality and attitude of a supplier comes into the picture. So I know our supplier might find a door not worth of QC at the final packing stage but the unit is otherwise alright and will ship the unit regardless and send a 'missing item notification' to us so we know whats missing at least 10 days before installation and can notify our client as well as make plans accordingly. Why they would ship a damaged unit is beyond me, but maybe they're incentivised on what ships first time ? Who knows. The more you work in this industry the more your mind boggles and the more I realise personally why German manufacturing is so efficient.

As someone from the kitchens business I have read several posts here with interest and some point I would like to add to put in a counter reality. 1. Expecting furniture delivery without damages is frankly unrealistic. Bear in mind that made up units are mostly air, transported on road surfaces where the quality varies vastly and even a sudden braking incident a real cause for damage. Damages always occur and its a bit underhanded for retailers/suppliers to not set a realistic expectation for what may happen during deliver, consequences and realistic timescales for remedials. 2. Furniture doesn't always handle well. Most kitchen furniture will be handled onto a truck at the factory, off at a warehouse, back on at a warehouse and off at the clients house. Each event of handling brings potential risk of damage. Customers who aren't provided a realistic picture of the facts end up with unrealistic expectations and disappointment. 3. Furniture supply chains are often lengthy and much more complicated than what one imagines. There is no such thing as a kitchen made in Britain with doors usually arriving from Ireland, france or Italy, hardware from Germany, Austria or Italy, Chipboard sometimes locally sourced but from timber originating in Nordic or Baltic countries and the list goes on. The weakest link in this chain is usually the doors. 4. Packing kitchens better is definitely a solution but most manufacturers find a balance between the need to be eco-friendly (the best packing materials are not easily recycled and the most recyclable materials not the most robust to prevent damages) and cost sensitive. Often the view is that its cheaper to change a couple of doors on a kitchen than to spend an extra £75 on packaging which still doesn't guarantee anything. 5. Notification of damages - while yes typical period is 2-5 working days there is a good reason for this. Seldom does a fitter own up to dropping a door or panel or nicking it or incorrectly drilling something with the onus of paying for the replacement put firmly in the fitters court. So why would it be fair for the supplier to deliver a kitchen when requested by the customer and then allowing them weeks to report any damages that weren't a fault of the supplier. Our own kitchen manufacturers allow us a fair amount of time and our understanding with out fitters is to honestly tell us if they damage anything - we do not charge them for it but that gives us a real picture of how good our suppliers are with deliveries. 6. Poorly paid delivery teams. Fact. A lot of delivery drivers earn a pittance and cant be bothered if the goods on the load bed are lumps of cast iron or finely crafted furniture. The best deliveries are from companies that own their truck fleets and employ their delivery staff and this can be very expensive. The typical cost of a 12 ton truck to deliver a kitchen from Kent to Manchester with 2 man crew will be c £750 taking into account capital cost, running cost, wages & overtime and diesel. So on a high end bespoke kitchen this cost adds maybe 5% just to deliver the kitchen. Some companies go down the palletised route but it does not work for kitchens. 7. 100% perfect deliveries - Errors happens. A kitchen is typically a collection of components, units, panels etc that come together in the clients kitchen for the first time and have to be technically thought through correctly, ordered correctly, interpreted correctly by the order processors, manufactured correctly in the factory, picked and loaded correctly and unloaded correctly. It sounds more complicated than it it but the level of automation in British factories particularly is very very low making the process far more error prone than it ought to be. Just a reality. I dont want to be seen as defending some very poor practises but thats the reality. About 90% of our business is German kitchens and the rest British. We find that one in 3 kitchens has a remedial. The type and severity varies but none that are show stoppers. We put this down to be very technically sound, thorough with our processes, realistic with our customers and are probably at the upper end of the scale for correctness and completeness of our orders. I personally know of very many companies that are just shambolic. Hope this helps

This is only relevant for laminate, wood or corian worktops. More importantly it doesnt do anything to stop water ingress into doors if there is a steam escape. Semi Integrated may be a solution but they are pretty ugly IMO.

Most likely steam/water ingress. What type of door is it? A foil wrapped or laminate door will show this with foil wrapped doors very susceptible. It could be due to a couple of reasons. A Dishwasher is usually next to the sink so check that there isn't any water splashing on the door. If not, this eliminated water and makes the most likely cause the dishwasher. Check that the dishwasher seals correctly. A dishwasher that is out of level sideways and front to back can cause this. If its a BSH dishwasher, this could be a particular problem as they make them with 3 legs and more susceptible to movement. If the problem isnt an out of level item then the problem is likely to be a damaged or perished seal. Posting photos may help.

Yes Ballerina is a good product but its pretty pricey for what it is.

We deal in Leicht and they offer this service. Other brands I know offering custom painted options are Beckermann, Ballerina, Eggersmann but this is by no means comprehensive. As a guideline, the mid-upmarket German manufacturers will offer this. Anything entry level wont.

Numerous suppliers will custom paint doors for your but if you want a good true handleless kitchen then European and particularly German is the way to go. There is a cost to handleless doors but most good manufacturers will offer you the option of any RAL or NCS colour. Farrow & Ball etc is not a colour standard so only British manufacturers will offer a colour matching service on these but you will undeniably get a better product at a better price for a German manufacturer.

Broadly speaking I would agree that the markup on Miele is not worth it but on laundry and vacuum cleaners, the product justifies the premium. In fact these are the two product categories in which Miele regularly win awards and they tend to extend the glow of these award wins to the entire brand which IMO is not worth it. Even Siemens offer extended warranties to their laundry but the product just isnt made to the same standards and neither is Samsung.

My advise on laundry appliance is always to buy the cheapest Miele with the 5y/10y warranty on the dryer/washing machine. Yes its a lot more than other products but I can assure you that 17 pcm * 12 (months) * 8 (years; most appliances come with a 2 year warranty) is guaranteed to be twice the price of the miele washing machine before taking into account the capital cost of whatever other washing machine you buy. Plus it will wash better and not ruin your clothes. And it will probably last another 5-10 years after the warranty is over. I have one that was purchased in July 2005 and 15 years later hasnt missed a beat. It owes me nothing if I had to scrap it tomorrow. Miele can be very expensive to repair so its quite important to buy one with the 5/10 year warranties.

Yes after the event and in hindsight but that doesnt solve the problem with a faulty floor. We always use 18mm marine ply on chipboard floors.

Thanks. Thats useful. Wonder how the structural engineer made the comments that he did.

Ok - so for a layman is it fair to assume in this case that the cause for the failure was the screed. Nothing usual in the makeup of the island and the load imposed by it.

Jeremy - the only thing different about this floor from hundreds others was the thinner PIR or possible poor screed mix. Nothing about the make up of the island indicated that it was unusually heavy or units overloaded. So it stands to reason that something about the floor make up was not right. I am not sure under what circumstances should stiff plates be specified under a kitchen island.