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That's how @SimonD ended up doing heating systems isn't it? I'd guess you are asking them to do something non-standard or give them the impression that you will be picking up on any minor issue and they have enough other work that they'd rather take the easy job. I'm not currently in this situation but have thought about it because I suspect I would similarly put off contractors for similar reasons. Options in my mind: 1. Play dumb, hide your knowledge and ask them to do the basic job without giving the detail (expect a poor job) 2. Find a friend of a friend who will do it on that basis (or find someone who has a rental portfolio who has a good relationship with a plumber). Would be easy to damage friendships here if not very careful. 3. Do it yourself 4. Offer a premium, don't ask for a fixed quote and pay by the hour. Be upfront about expectations. 5. Wait for a recession when there may be more availability (though given the shortage of plumbers it still won't be easy).

This £2k cap on tax free pensions saving is going to make this a whole lot worse. The most counter productive policy I've seen for a while. Lowering the rebate for higher earners makes sense. Limiting/taxing contributions from lower earners is madness. I suspect lots of people will end up ceasing pension contributions because of this (losing employer match) and storing up massive problems for the future. We are in a hole until some party wins an election on a manifesto commitment to rejoin the EU and take some hard decisions to make that possible. Rejoining won't actually be fast but I'd expect just that decision to help the country lose the basketcase tag from investors and be a turning point when things start improving. Chances of that happening any time soon are very low. 😒

Hmm, this is a 'warranty reestablishment' service, because I'm apparently a few weeks late booking the service. They are supposed to fully take it apart and check everything. Edit: I had thought I was out of warranty but apparently I have 1 more year so it was worth the extra £30 to keep the warranty.

Hmm, well I've just booked my service with them, would you expect their engineer to question it? So far the boiler is doing exactly what is asked of it. I may have other issues to raise with my overall system in due course but so far the boiler is fine. I've looked into this and I can get an add-on relay (I think Salus make a nicely packaged one for the purpose), but for now I'm doing poor mans PDHW by just not scheduling them both to come on at the same time. Edit to clarify: my system has two NO valves (and a pressure release bypass). I have no interest in investing extra money in this property (really want to sell it asap but can't right now due to cladding issues) so focussed on maximising what I have. Needed to replace the controller anyway as my Honeywell broke and while I was able to repair it, I don't trust my soldering skills (or the quality of the replacement capacitors) as a long term fix.

I don't mind that we are finding a way to pay for much needed upgrades, but adding it to the cost of electricity is mad and I agree that the messaging is infuriating. Add the cost to gas an remove the costs from electricity. Average person with gas boiler will pay a bit more, those who are electricity only pay less, EV owners pay less. This government (and the previous one) are fixated on not touching the big ticket items that they end up creating huge amounts of perverse incentives that drag our economy down and pile on hidden costs that put off investments and improvements (unless specifically government backed). The worst thing is that I don't think any of the 5? parties currently competing at similar levels in the polls seem to be offering an alternative.

Looks like E.On have removed their 16p export tariff, with higher value export tariffs now only available if you either have a new e.On installed solar system or don't want an EV tariff on use. https://www.eonnext.com/electricity-and-gas/smart-export-guarantee The beginning of the end for the more generous export tariffs?

I was thinking that they were bigger than they look in the photo and you've confirmed it. Thanks!

Yep. Wiser 2nd gen will do that too along with some others, though had I seen @SimonD's recommendation before I bought I may well have gone with EPH. Having said that, having the separate connections may be of use even if your boiler doesn't have opentherm (or a broken version of it). My relatively basic boiler will run the hot water at a hotter temp if triggered by a separate input to the normal heating circuit. It was my fallback position if I had a problem with opentherm.

Still working out which is best. Until the Wiser I've been running on manual boost as required, now exploring other options. One of my rooms has pretty much all its two external walls as not thermally broken aluminium double glazed floor to ceiling sliding doors and is hugely lossy. I don't really use the room so until now I've not be actively controlling the temperature there (just leaving some radiators relatively low and the room gets whatever heat comes from them when the heating is on for the other rooms). This arrangement has its downsides and I'm hoping that the efficiency gain of being able to run the boiler at a lower temp offsets the additional gas that I expect to need to regulate that rooms temperature (early signs not inspiring confidence). Edit: I opened your big boiler journey thread earlier, not (re-)read it all yet but plan to. Thanks! Yep Came across that one in the wiser forums. Opinions are mixed as to whether it's a benefit on a good modulating boiler. (Mine goes from 30kw to 6kw)

No opentherm connections there. A system boiler may also not be wired for separate CH and DHW signals which limits you to a single water temperature or in the case of the 1st gen wiser and similar prevents Opentherm use if you also want hot water. A competent installer can solve those problems.

Amazon now selling various packages even cheaper for Black Friday. Whether it's worth the hassle of returning what you ordered is up to you. Magic Pixies have paid me a visit and now everything is up and running and working as expected. Looks like the 2nd Gen Wiser hub has better OpenTherm support. It's a shame in the sense that they don't appear to be backporting changes to the 1st Gen hub. Doesn't really matter to me, though the 2nd gen diagnostic info in the app would be quite useful. I wasn't planning on installing Home Assistant for this but might end up doing so just as I get used to the controls so I have a better idea what's happening. So far the Wiser is running the boiler at the max setpoint temp (control on my boiler) until the room temp is very close to setpoint and then it winds the boiler down. Seen it drop the water temp to 42 so far though overall it spent more time at higher temps than I expected. I've read that it takes a couple of weeks for the system to learn your property and until then its control will be a bit bumpy. We will see. Don't think I'm seeing much cycling though without that diagnostic info and not wanting to stand in front of the boiler for ages it's a bit of a guess based on the noises I'm hearing. Not turned on eco mode (weather compensation based on internet weather) yet. That's the next step after a bit more experimentation without it.

Turn it on put it in bypass and let it stick its tongue out for you to inspect. Then reassemble and let it revert to normal mode? Time to order some bearings then? 🙃

Hopefully you spotted it but it doesnt look like the hinge at the bottom left is in correctly. From the earlier photo it looks like that end has to clip in first then the other end will snap in place? Other than that observation I can't help you. Do you have a service manual? If not, find one?

Apologies if I've (again) missed you specifying it before, but do you know offhand the dimensions of the high level windows in the double height area?

These are better, include bluetooth so you can use an app to track all of them at once. https://www.amazon.co.uk/ThermoPro-Thermometer-Bluetooth-Hygrometer-Temperature/dp/B0BTSW9JGT?crid=1AQOSJR7HAEBD&sprefix=thermopro%2Bbluetooth%2Caps%2C73&sr=8-15&th=1 3 for £22 Bluetooth means the batteries don't last as long so think about rechargeables once the included* batteries drain. *Pretty sure they come with batteries but it doesn't say that clearly and I can't remember for the ones I got. It's one AAA per unit in any case.

Ah, I thought you were more DIY about these things, replacement certainly easier assuming you can source it.

If you can find out the type of bearings you need in advance order some before tearing into the unit. You have a bearing puller (or a way to do the replacement)? Minimise downtime/repeat work. If you decide you don't need them now then you have them for when you inevitably will.

And Asbestos (for new builds) and Asbestos removal (for conversions)!

So why are you replacing this system if you took the care to make sure the pipes were all good? Good point. It's one of my arguments that the pipes in general have a lot of potential to increase output so extra loops aren't necessary. I was thinking that if you wanted to rule out any kinks to pipes that while it would work might have the potential to cause problems in future then a more thorough test might be justified.

I was thinking a bit more rigorous than the standard as I'm not sure the standard pressure type testing would pick up a restriction/kink that easily (good for catching more servere damage). But it's hardly a huge deal to attach a circulating pump and measure flow/pressure.

Also worth checking that the immersion isn't coming on to suppliment hot water?

Just to be clear, my understanding of this statement is that one part of the building may end up higher/lower than other parts. You are not saying you expect a crack with a step of 25mm in the middle of the slab. Obviously the big crack in the middle of the slab would break UFH pipes but if you have a crack that big then it's likely big enough to affect more than one loop and certainly going to cause you many other problems. If its just the overall building moving then the pipes should be fine. They are designed to withstand normal concrete movement/expansion/contraction. The UFH pipes are designed to deal with this. Plastic has some flexibility. There are installation details you need to install around movement joints, etc. Plastic won't handle sharp cracks with significant movement but expansion/contraction measured in mm per m will be fine. There will always be bad contractors and poor installs. If you have a contractor that doesn't give a shit causing lots of problems then adding an extra loop or two to the design isn't going to save you. Given we are talking about decisions made at the design stage, rather than spending money on more loops, extra/larger manifolds and a less efficient system as a way to mitigate against a poor contractor you would be better off finding a better contractor/organising better supervision. Requiring a full flow test of each loop after install would be one way to ensure the pipes are good at install without adding a lot of extra steps (so long as your contract was tight enough to force the contractor to fix any issues). As I was saying the if the pipes are good at install then there is little that will go wrong in the following years. Getting a good install is a problem with any system (see the amount of people we have on here having issues with non-ufh heating systems). One caveat, if you install in a thin screed then there is always the possibility of putting a drill through a pipe but if you put drill through a pipe in a thin screed the process of repairing that is much easier than an unknown fault in a more deeply buried pipe and, unless you were the one drilling, someone else is paying for the repair. Firstly, UFH is laid with no joints. If there is a joint the only reason is that it is there because of a prior repair. I've seen others here talk about having a joint to fix a problem with long term success so the prospect of a joint failing (that only exists in case of prior error) doesn't seem to me to be a good reason to specify a more expensive, less efficient system up front. Sure, please take me through a scenario where a surveyor sees a problem that leads to a significant reduction (>5%) in the value of the house where that problem would have been prevented by installing extra UFH loops. It really depends on the layout. We are talking low energy homes here so any room shouldn't be losing more than 2kw of heat. Any room big enough to get close to that level of heat loss is likely big enough to have multiple loops in it anyway so at least some of the loss from a defective loop can likely be made up by increasing the flow rate to the remaining loop(s). So many options to make up the rest. Normal radiators, baseboard radiator (electric if water pipes too difficult to route), AC fan coil installed high up (or on other wall blowing air to where it's needed), an electric panel heater installed on the ceiling above the cool area raditating down (not a great idea but a possibility). These options vary from a few hundred to maybe 2k for the most difficult. Not enough to seriously affect the price of a house. The point I'm trying to make is that I'm not at all convinced that having an extra loop solves any of the issues you mentioned and that it comes with downsides. The likelihood of a spare loop being in just the right place to adequately cover for another failed loop is not high. If you install lots of short loops vs fewer long loops then you are adding quite an extra cost and potential efficiency loss/design complexity (how do you route all those pipes from the manifold without causing overheating?) and my argument is that this doesn't seem justified by the risk of loop failure. I was hoping my comments would solicit others to speak up as I don't have practical experience on this. I'm open to being convinced but I would like to see some detail to back up your argument. To reiterate, I am arguing from the perspective of a new install in a modern low energy home. Retrofit in a high energy home might be different (not really thought hard about it). What was the reason for failure?

Given the age I would guess you would be better off setting aside an amount to cover the cost of replacement (or make it a condition of sale) than investing in understanding its current state. Seeing your other thread, the most important thing is to make sure you have all the legal rights you need to maintain/replace any soakaway in future if needed.

Similar to my thoughts. There are some interesting plaster in profiles around that are worth looking at. Sorry, no links as it was a while ago, cost from cheap to ridiculous depending on your asthetic tastes. The other alternative I've looked at is doing similar but shining up (45o) from dropped ceiling details. Either way, conceptually I like the idea but when I've seen examples I've not been that impressed. I think a lot depends on the design and the other lighting in the room. Worth working up a prototype of this. If using volume controls (potentiometers I guess?) how will you integrate that into the drivers? Most controllers I've looked at (not a huge number) will either want mains dimming, instructions from a smart system (dmx, dali, knx, ethernet), a PWM signal or a 0-10V signal. None of which you get from a simple potentiometer without additional work. I'm pretty sure I've seen you post knowledgeable stuff about electronics before so I'm guessing you know this and were simplifying. But prototype definitely worth it in anycase. Worth planning on multiple power feed points to a strip. You can buy good high CRI CCT strips in much longer lengths than 5m giving you the flexibility to cut them up as desired. No harm in multiple power feeds (from the same controller) to a single continuous strip. Better to over provision than under. The fallback is standard 'smart' bulbs (Hue, etc).

I watch at 2x speed and don't mind skipping here and there. Makes a lot of youtube creators watchable when they otherwise wouldn't be.