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As you said yourself the rads were coming on and off. They weren't on continuously. We have talked about how the thermostat is in the wrong place. The system may have been set to run, but the thermostat was stopping it running most of the time. Your bill would have been very much higher had it been actually producing heat constantly. Both @Dillsue and I have done some rough calcs for your place. The results are that your heatpump is likely not able to maintain 20C internally during the coldest days of the year. No company would want to install something that can't maintain 20C during the coldest days. In fact I suspect that most companies would want to make sure the heatpump could maintain 23C. That doesn't mean that the heatpump flat out wont work. Just that for 2-3weeks a year it will be colder than 20C inside. Given right now you are much colder than that I'm suggesting changes that could allow you to be warmer than you are now. @Big Jimbo is right though, if you want to be warm in your house you will have to be able to afford bigger bills. How much bigger is unclear, but his estimate of £250 is a good starting point. Some things are not as obvious as they seem. Because the old rooms have very thick walls, once they are cold they are difficult to warm up. So if you really want to prove your theory you need to run the house for at least a week, probably more with the heating on and rads warm continuously. If after 2 weeks of doing that, it's still cold then you will have proved your point (at as the house is now). If it's warmer but not toasty then we can have a conversation about making it better. Edit to add: if after two weeks of constant heating it's still deathly cold then its still not game over, just that improvements need to be made to the place and I'm not talking insulation. It's more likely plasterboard tent type issues or drafts (despite your best efforts).

The physics is the same, to get a comfortable house you will undoubtably have to spend more on bills than I do but the same principles apply. My mums house does not and she is able to heat that perfectly fine. Yes it costs her approx £2000 a year but its not cold (so long as the heating is on) Medium warm rads on 24x7 will output much more heat than hot rads on for short periods of time. 12 rads designed for heatpump temps should be able to output the full capacity of your heatpump without issue. The fact your energy bill is only £70 shows that this hasn't been tried yet. For you to get a warm house it will cost substantially more than £70 per month. If my mums leaky, mostly uninsulated house can be kept warm then so can yours. Take @Nickfromwales up on his offer. TRY to run your house in a different way. Physics and experience from people on this forum says it's possible. Unfortunately you've had a bad experience with previous installers putting a system in that wasn't set up right and gave the impression that your house is unfixable. Try to set that experience aside and start with a blank sheet of paper.

I'm saying the rads should be hot whenever the room is colder than your set temperature, including overnight. This is how I run my system, how @Nickfromwales runs his, ditto @JohnMo@marshian and many many more. With a TRV you can set the temperature in your bedroom lower, but the heat is required in the rest of the house to prevent the stone walls getting cold. Once they are cold then warming them up again is super difficult. Once your house is warm, the radiators will only be on as needed to maintain the warmth, but to get the house warm they need to be on continously, likely for many many days because your house is so cold right now. As I said many posts ago, I've found running my system 24x7 seems to be using less energy than running my system on a timer. The reason is that it takes a lot more energy to heat a cold space up than it does to maintain a constant temperature.

Maybe this helps: The Thermostat/controller is there to put heat into the system whenever the coldest room needs heat (to do this it needs to be located in the coldest room) The TRVs are there to set the hottest temperature you want the individual rooms to reach. There are ways to make systems work without TRVs but your house is a long way away from that. So you need TRVs in rooms that would otherwise get too hot as the system is heating up the cold rooms. You don't really need TRVs in the cold rooms. In my flat I have removed the TRVs from everywhere but the bedrooms and it works fine, but if I remove the TRVs from the bedrooms then the bedrooms overheat as the system is trying to warm up the cold other rooms. (My bedrooms have much better thermal properties - like your new bedroom in the old house)

Yes always on, the radiators should be hot/warm until the house is warm. Once the house is warm then you would expect the system to automatically turn on and off to maintain that temperature. You need to keep the system on to maintain a relatively steady temperature in your house. With thick walls like you have, once the heat is lost it takes an enormous amount of time and energy to heat up again so the key is to stop them getting cold in the first place. I've suggested you get a TRV fitted to your bedroom radiator. This way you can set your bedroom temperature independently from the rest of the house and set it a couple of degrees lower. But the system will still be on, pushing heat into the rest of the property.

I can't explain past decisions. What's important is to solve the problems now. Not at all. Traditional Gas systems usually have a controller (that might be near the cylinder) but a seperate thermostat somewhere central in the house. Heat pumps often by default have the thermostat inside the control screen. This should be installed in a place that is exposed to the coldest indoor temperatures (so it doesn't switch the heating off until the coldest place is warm). From what you've said your thermostat is near your cylinder, which explains your problem. The cylinder is mostly likely the hottest part of the house, so the thermostat is sitting there thinking it's 18C when you are sitting in the sitting room freezing. So either you need an engineer to attach a remote thermostat to your existing system or to move the existing thermostat.

That's pretty much what I came to as well. Glad to see it verified.

Just echoing the others £70 is way too low to cover the cost of energy to heat the house. That's just proof your old system wasn't set up right and wasn't outputting much heat. My bills in a large 2 bed modern flat are higher. My mums bills in a 1940s 3 bed semi, uninsulated solid walls, no floor insulation, 250mm in the loft are about £2000 a year. In winter she spends £10 a day heating the place (bills average it over the year). I said earlier that I didn't think your new system on for four hours a day would cost more than the old one on 24/7, now I'm not so sure, I don't think the old one was doing much at all. @zoothorn you mentioned your regret for persuading your parents to upgrade their storage heaters as it didn't make any difference. I'm afraid you will feel the same regret if you proceed with your concrete floor. It's the wrong place to spend money. Spend your money moving the thermostat (if needed), installing TRVs in the warm rooms and running the heating 24/7. Once the house is warm there are things that can be done to lower bills but first step is getting the house warm.

Firstly, not blaming you at all. You've relied on others to set them up (both times) and I'm not convinced either was done in a way that will fully work for you. There is plenty of evidence from other people with similar houses that these houses can be heated, physics says they can be heated. The only question is whether it's economical, which is why I'm trying to help you have another run at addressing this long standing issue. I know you've been around and around this issue and I know you are getting frustrated but the goal of being warm is worth some persistence. From what you've said it wasn't running as I propose at all. If the room is below the desired temperature then the rads should be on pretty much continuously (except when the hot water is being heated). The fact you noticed them regularly going on and off suggests things weren't working correctly. I've asked a couple of times where the thermostat is. I suspect the most likely reason for them going on / off is that the thermostat is located in the warmest part of the house so the system is stopping because it thinks things are warm enough. If not that, then there are other possibiilties. I doubt as it's currently set up (4 hours a day) it will be costing you more than the other system on 24 hours a day. If you set the current system to run 24 hours a day then it will likely cost more than the previous system because the water temperature is set higher but this is all adjustable and can be looked at so no need to panic. I do think you are not getting value for money out of the system as you are still cold and do think it's possible to do better. Earlier, I did a quick calc based on some Scottish government research for buildings with thick solid walls like yours. That calc suggests your heatpump is likely just enough to keep things warm in your place except during the coldest few days of the year. It was only very approximate because I don't know that much about your place, but the house is not huge and has a modern extension which helps limit energy needs. I don't share your confidence in this, there is some evidence supporting your view but it's not conclusive. There is also evidence that maybe you've never had a system that was set up to maximise the chances of success and there is also evidence that there are some relatively easy to fix issues that could be limiting things (walls upstairs causing the loft insulation to be bypassed). One of the big issues in your house is that the really thick walls means that once it is cold (and damp) it's really really difficult to then warm things back up again. As in it might take many days (even weeks) of continously hot radiators. The heatpump really isn't big enough to do that, but it is likely big enough to stop things getting cold in the first place, so long as it's given a fighting chance to do so. This is why I've been pushing for you to be ready for end of summer. How to be ready: 1. Get the engineer on Monday to show you how to: a. turn heating to - "always on" - "always off" - "timer" b. adjust the set temperature c. adjust the timer 2. Deal with the bedroom external walls as discussed. 3. If needed, arrange for the thermostat/heatpump controller to be moved to a cold part of the house 4. Possibly, get TRVs installed on the radiators in the warm part of the house (this is something that could be done if needed at a later date).

It has other uses than just insulation. Modellers might well want small quantities.

I was thinking CoP 2/2.5 rather than 1 but no doubt the system is not being used optimally and will cost a lot for very little when with a relatively small amount of effort it could likely work quite well. However, zoot is currently living in conditions that would displease a Victorian and it's a major physical and mental health hazard so in my book it's worth trying to make progress.

Think about going back to the AT and paying for construction drawings. You are only at the very start and have hit multiple roadblocks/issues with drawings already. You'll probably save any upfront cost with less delays/mistakes later if you have proper drawings to go off.

Ok thats great to hear (not sure you said that before) and thanks for highlighting this. It's revealed to me my sloppy language, I'm sorry for that. When I said 'it's wrong' I was mainly referring to the system only being on 4 hours a day. I think it needs to be on longer so you have more warmth. I'm not proposing lowering the radiator temp in the short term. In the long term (after you've made some more improvements to your property and you've been able to maintain a better temperature) it would be good to look again at the temperature of the radiators. Once the room is warm, you won't need to feel the heat from the radiators any more to feel comfortable and then you can start tuning for efficiency. Modern heatpumps can support a property like yours. It's a myth they can't. It's possible the one you have is a bit too small and it seems likely that you need to make a few more improvements to get it working in your situation but it's very much doable with a little thought and care. @Dillsue has highlighted similar examples. If it's colder inside than it is outside, are you opening the windows to try and get some warmer air from the outside? (not during your bath but before and definitely after to clear the moisture) The problem you have is that your building has a lot of heavy solid materials in the structure. These take a long time to heat up and cool down. The key to living comfortably with them is to stop them cooling down in the first place as trying to warm them up quickly will lead nowhere. Clearly your bathroom has got cold and once cold a towel rail isn't going to be able to compete with the raditors emitting cold that are the walls. As a temporary measure while you explore the improvements already discussed, it might be worth considering abandoning trying to heat the space and focus on just heating you. A good way to do this is radiative (infrared) heating panels. One of those pointed directly at you while sitting in the sitting room will likely make you feel a lot warmer and use less energy than running the heatpump. Not so good for making you feel a bit warm when you get up in the morning, but maybe an idea for evenings. https://www.toolstation.com/tristar-smart-infrared-panel-heater/p78401 (not a recommendation just an example) Still, I think you can do better than just heating yourself if you can prepare well this summer.

Seconded

Houses that can't be heated exist but the reason they are like that is that they have problems and these problems can be fixed. As we've discussed already, houses that are relatively well sealed from outside air blowing the heat away can be heated. The only question is whether the cost of heating them is economical. So far you haven't got to the point where you can make that decision and I think you need to get to that point before giving up. I doubt that's a good description. The hotter the heatpump runs the radiators the less efficient it will be. I'm sure he set the temperature high because your house seemed cold and he thought it was what was required. It certainly would be required if only running the heating for a few hours a day but running the heatpump for longer at a lower temperature can be less costly than running one at high temperatures for shorter. No thats wrong. You need to get that changed, you can change those setting to run the heatpump as much as your want and I very much doubt that running it as above will result in anything other than wasting money and no real feeling of warmth. In a house like yours, it's likely you need to keep the internal temperature of the building fairly stable because of the amount of energy it takes to change the temperature is immense. It's why I suggested being ready at the end of summer with the heating set to never let the internal temperature drop below a certain point. At least for a while so you can work out how much it costs to do so.* The exact opposite in many ways. You are asking the HP to work at maximum output for those 2 hours then turn off. Heatpumps ideally like to run continuously and a relatively low output. Basically you are asking a marathon runner to compete in 100m sprints. Do you have a copy of those calculations? Would be good to see them. I tend to agree that it's a big ask for a 9kw heatpump in your space especially if you want warm (>20C) rooms. However, given the work you've already done plus a bit more this summer I do think the heatpump should be able to keep your space warmer than it has been. Maybe it's only capable of maintaining 17C or even 16C when it's really cold outside but thats still much better than what you have now if you can see your breath inside. But the key to making this happen is to make the heatpumps job as easy as possible and that means not letting the building go cold in the first place. This is something you really need to confront not run away from. At minimum you need to know how to turn the heating on / off manually and adjust the temperature. I had a quick look and it's only a few button presses. Ideally you'd also know how to adjust the timer. Best advice for how to get this from the engineer is to say something along the lines of 'I really struggle with technical stuff like this can you show me how to turn the heating on and off', then when they try and press the buttons say 'no, can you let me drive, just tell me what to press'. Then you build up the muscle memory and can go at your speed rather than let them do that. If dealing with the timer is too difficult I would at least want to know how to switch between timer and 'always on' (or 'always off'). This is concerning, you don't have the best of luck. Hopefully, things improve from here. That's very defeatist and I do understand the feeling, it's been a long journey for you. If you have the conversation with the engineer as described above you should come away able to switch just the heating off while leaving hot water on. In anycase, if the temperature is set to something like 17/18C then theres no real need to turn it off at all. During the summer the heating just wont come on because the temperature won't drop enough to trigger it. Plus, if something else is wrong best to find out about it during the summer when it's warm, not when you are wanting the heat when it's cold. Edit to add: * I know the old system was set to be always on at 17C and you also had no luck with the stove on for long stretches. So I definitely see the need to make some improvements (and also make sure the thermostat is located correctly), but with the work you've done already I think you are not far away from where you need to be.

I'm no expert on any of this and I know you've been back and forth over this in the past with others who know more than so I doubt I'm saying anything new but my thought is that you need to think hollistically. Trying to warm the sitting room up when the other rooms are cold is a losing proposition. Your loft insulation is above the bedrooms not above the sitting room. If the bedrooms are cold the heat from the sitting room will rise and get lost in the cold bedroom. To put it another way think about stopping the loft air from getting behind the bedroom walls, not just at the junction to the sitting room. Understand, but do try and come back to it during the summer. Try to make this the last year you can see your breath inside during the winter. Honestly, this sounds like a blessing in disguise. You were left with a system you didn't know how to control. While the engineer is there get them to show you how to adjust the system (temperature set point and the timer). If there are no fault codes the issue is likely fairly simple. I think the experience of people on here are that heatpumps are just as reliable if not more so than modern gas boilers (both full of electronics nowdays). Everything can get a fault, especially if something was missed around install, but once setup correctly and as long as serviced regularly it should be fine. My main concern is that if the system is running flat out and not getting any heat into the place then thats way outside it's design parameters and could cause excessive wear. So if you want the heat pump to last then this summer is definitely the time to put some effort into attacking the issues in the house.

AFAIK it's a GPON network: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GPON So a single strand of fibre is shared between groups of houses with splitters in splice boxes as houses split off. The bandwidth you get is shared between the other people on the same fibre but you are very unlikely to notice any issues because the links are very fast. The laser transcievers can go at least 2km, 10km is easily available so there is no need for any active (powered) electronics between you and the exchange. There may be some very rural places where the exchange is more than 10km away, in which case BT might have chosen to use a powered green box as an aggregation point rather than deploy more specialised transceivers.

Certainly true of the original dishes, but I thought some of the newer ones had other options. I've seen plenty of people use normal ethernet cables (possibly with adapters) online.

Been a bit busy today, just looked at the earlier posts. Sorry I clearly got the build up of the upstairs rooms wrong. If it's plasterboard on dabs on dodgy cavity wall then the plasterboard tent point is even more valid. One of the reasons I suggest dealing with those rooms first is if cold air is getting into the structure from there it's going to make heating the downstairs harder. Loads of houses have cold concrete floors and while they may not be the most comfortable they can generally be heated which makes me think that dealing with the floor should be lower down on the priority list until you have the ability to heat better than now. Whatever you do, if the heating system is running off a thermostat located in a warm room or it continues only operating for a few hours a day your house wont be warm unless you do an awful lot of work (bringing the house to modern standards). But, if basic air sealing is done and plasterboard tent possibilities are eliminated then what you have should be able to warm the space if the actually running (ie, the thermostat and timer are all saying 'provide heat'). Can you confirm where the thermostat is? If it needs moving you should start thinking about that and also put some time into working out how to change the schedule. Wish you the best of luck dealing with this.

Your confidence in stating this makes me want to revisit this again. I previously asked where your ASHP thermostat was. I think you missed that. When you had your old system the radiators should have been on continuously so long as it was cold in the sitting room. If that was not the case then it's likely the thermostat was located somewhere that was getting warm (new extension?) and that was then turning the whole system off before enough heat got into the sitting room, hence the sitting room is always cold. If you have actual air leakage or large 'tent like' areas with outside air nearby then this doesn't apply. But from what you've said I don't think this does apply to downstairs. No, it was with regard to your upstairs rooms I was thinking if you were working in the upstairs room, it wouldn't be super hard to lift a few floor boards and clean out/stuff the space with fluffy stuff (definitely not PIR as it's too rigid and you wont get a good seal). It's likely that you already have some floor boards that were lifted to install radiators, so an easy place to start. If there is no void in the floor (radiator pipes all run along walls, not into the floor) then this doesn't apply. Given the work you've previously done, I think taking off the plasterboard and replacing after installing insulation is within your capabilities. So it would likely be better than drilling a few holes and foaming, but the foaming is certainly easier but might hide issues. One of the reasons to address the upstairs rooms first is that gives you the option to spend evenings up there rather than in the sitting room and it's a much easier and cheaper project however you do it. Edit: I believe I read you have 250mm of loft insulation. So that plus better wall insulation should make those upstairs rooms relatively easy to keep warm.

That may be a temporary situation with lots of people getting them, then changing their minds due to poor experience. Things will bed down and at some point there won't be many second hand ones without a lot of use.

Most commonly used to describe new-builds where they have lots of insulation but also lots of airgaps that effectively outside air bypasses the insulation and sits behind the plasterboard of the room. (Plasterboard sealing off much of the airflow into the room so you don't necessarily feel the drafts but you do feel the cold). So the plasterboard acts as well as a tent does. All the insulation and brick is effectively bypassed and useless from a heating point of view. In your case, used to describe what seems likely that outside air is getting directly behind the plasterboard/PIR upstairs effectively preventing any heat build up in the stone walls. Thick stone walls would normally build heat given enough time - 2ft solid walls if heated right should be a more comfortable/stable environment than victorian brick solid walls. I've lived in a number of houses with brick solid walls and they are cold when the heating is off but warm up fairly easily when the heating is on.

If before the system was supposed to be on all the time and was set to 17C and yet the rads were turning on/off while you could see your own breath then the system wasn't doing what it should. The rads should have been warm continuously. When I was skimming history I saw some talk about the thermometer but not the full context. Where was this located on the old system? On the new? (Thermometer if not separate is likely the controller with the LCD screen for the system). To work properly in your property it really needs to be located in the coldest room. My previous flat had storage heaters, they drove me insane and why I desperately searched for a flat with gas/central heating when I bought this place (unusual in modern flats). People on here claim modern ones work much better so long as you know how to set them up but I suspect most people don't and so suffer the behaviour you describe.

Yes. Sorry if it wasn't clear, I agree with the plasterboard tent description. Just wanted to claify the build up.