SteamyTea

I like this idea as after a bath, I find that I feel quite warm and would need less heating anyway. Also made me think of something that Joe90 was saying about putting in a bit of pipework into his slab where he expects to get some solar gain (he ain't realised that it is always cloudy in Cornwall yet). Using a multiple coil set up in a slab would also give some flexibility if things don't work according to plan i.e. you can add or remove extra heating easily.

The last track on the LP was my favourite

That is something that should be forced upon the energy companies and the price comparison sites, would need the standing charge as well. It could be done within a week if there was a will. It makes me wonder if OFGEM know anything about the industry. All a customer would need to know then is their usage in kWh, and that is on the bill.

Back to my question about the store. It seems a complicated and backward step to me. But then I like simple things. As for the SD card thing, what happens when they stop making SD cards, or they are not supported any more. I have Sony camera, it has its own card format, I think I may have an old 'XD' card somewhere. I did throw out the old floppy disks the other day, including my copies of AutoCad, Office and Photoshop. Heating systems should be designed to last at least 30 years, 50 would be better. There are no mysteries left at this level of thermodynamics, so we know what is needed and how to do it.

Not sure I understand what is happening here. As it is an unvented store, does the mains water just enter it cold, get heated, then comes out the top to the tap (I don't think this is what happens). Or does the water in the cylinder get pumped though the plate heat exchanger, heating the the cold supply that then goes off to the tap (I think this is what happens). So this system will always need a working pump and a power supply then.

Who has your cash Barney GBE or OVO? There is a bit on the Ofgem's website about protection. But as you say, I bet it becomes complicated.

So this is the first one. Here is the FT bit on it. https://www.ft.com/content/fc943f58-b499-11e6-ba85-95d1533d9a62 (You may need to do a Google search to bypass the paywall). I heard that OVO wee offering 3% interest on any overpayment, that is an easy way for them to raise cash. But is it because they cannot raise cash any other way.

Terra Terra Earthing, basically a large nail in the ground

Yesterday looked like a grim day up your way. Only 3 times brighter than night time

Should end up with something like this: Date Temp Temp Day Only Windspeed Windspeed Day Only Solar Solar Day Only 04/07/2016 16.3 17.4 2.1 1.8 161 229 05/07/2016 14.5 14.8 6.5 6.9 241 334 06/07/2016 15.3 16.0 3.2 3.8 172 230 07/07/2016 16.3 16.5 4.9 6.6 124 178 08/07/2016 16.3 16.6 13.7 18.5 197 286 09/07/2016 17.5 18.0 1.7 2.0 99 143 10/07/2016 17.4 17.9 6.0 7.8 168 245 11/07/2016 14.7 14.9 13.3 16.3 69 102 12/07/2016 13.9 14.3 1.7 1.8 158 224 13/07/2016 13.9 14.4 6.3 8.5 221 316 14/07/2016 14.3 15.1 4.5 5.4 223 318 15/07/2016 16.0 16.6 1.9 1.9 104 141 16/07/2016 16.5 16.6 9.4 9.6 188 280 17/07/2016 16.0 16.7 6.5 7.7 240 342 18/07/2016 19.7 21.6 0.8 1.1 256 369 19/07/2016 24.6 26.6 2.4 3.0 312 445 20/07/2016 21.2 20.7 5.2 6.4 234 308 21/07/2016 18.6 19.4 2.9 3.0 262 347 22/07/2016 18.7 20.0 2.4 3.0 189 283 23/07/2016 17.8 19.0 1.0 1.0 177 259 24/07/2016 18.0 18.9 2.3 2.4 106 157 25/07/2016 15.7 15.9 11.3 13.5 154 225 26/07/2016 16.7 17.3 7.5 9.3 158 238 27/07/2016 16.2 16.6 4.7 4.5 231 343 28/07/2016 15.6 16.3 3.4 4.1 125 187 29/07/2016 16.5 17.0 4.4 4.7 180 270 30/07/2016 15.0 15.6 4.5 5.7 158 235 31/07/2016 #DIV/0! #DIV/0! #DIV/0! #DIV/0! #### #DIV/0! 01/08/2016 15.6 16.4 2.8 2.4 110 165 02/08/2016 17.1 18.0 3.7 3.4 88 133 03/08/2016 17.4 17.8 11.5 12.3 138 218 04/08/2016 16.2 16.7 17.1 14.7 162 254 05/08/2016 16.3 17.1 4.2 4.4 208 309 06/08/2016 18.8 19.8 4.4 5.1 210 315 07/08/2016 17.9 18.2 23.6 26.6 203 333 08/08/2016 15.2 15.8 17.0 14.5 220 340 09/08/2016 14.0 14.8 5.7 7.0 146 229 10/08/2016 13.5 14.0 5.6 6.6 98 160 11/08/2016 15.2 15.5 20.3 22.2 66 108 12/08/2016 17.0 17.4 19.2 20.2 172 272 13/08/2016 16.2 16.5 14.1 14.0 170 269 14/08/2016 15.8 16.6 1.4 1.3 145 230 15/08/2016 17.3 20.0 1.2 1.5 212 334 16/08/2016 18.6 20.8 3.5 3.7 221 352 17/08/2016 17.7 19.6 4.1 4.8 218 351 18/08/2016 18.7 20.8 5.1 5.7 190 305 19/08/2016 16.2 16.4 4.3 3.8 82 132 20/08/2016 16.0 16.6 10.1 9.1 110 178 21/08/2016 16.3 16.7 12.1 13.8 128 213 22/08/2016 17.6 18.2 6.9 9.8 96 158 23/08/2016 19.9 22.3 0.8 1.0 191 314 24/08/2016 17.3 18.6 1.0 1.6 194 315 25/08/2016 16.8 17.6 1.2 1.4 54 95 26/08/2016 16.6 17.8 8.9 11.8 201 331 27/08/2016 15.9 17.7 3.6 4.2 127 212 28/08/2016 16.9 17.9 1.9 2.0 151 255 29/08/2016 16.0 17.1 3.1 5.1 205 348 30/08/2016 16.9 18.8 2.4 3.4 115 197 31/08/2016 #DIV/0! #DIV/0! #DIV/0! #DIV/0! #### #DIV/0! 01/09/2016 15.9 16.8 6.1 7.4 124 216 02/09/2016 16.2 17.1 9.2 13.9 140 243 03/09/2016 14.2 14.3 1.8 1.9 43 75 04/09/2016 15.8 16.7 8.3 8.4 142 254 05/09/2016 17.6 19.3 2.0 3.3 135 233 06/09/2016 20.4 21.8 3.0 4.8 107 189 07/09/2016 21.3 23.1 0.8 0.9 148 259 08/09/2016 17.2 17.2 8.1 13.4 124 228 09/09/2016 17.5 18.6 3.0 2.9 75 138 10/09/2016 14.1 15.0 1.6 1.4 118 215 11/09/2016 15.5 17.2 2.5 2.2 130 226 12/09/2016 18.1 19.7 3.4 4.0 80 140 13/09/2016 18.6 19.2 1.7 2.4 73 136 14/09/2016 20.2 22.4 6.0 9.6 151 274 15/09/2016 18.3 19.8 0.8 0.8 123 230 16/09/2016 15.4 15.7 6.0 8.1 127 238 17/09/2016 13.7 15.4 1.0 1.7 147 276 18/09/2016 8.5 8.8 0.2 0.6 16 55 19/09/2016 #DIV/0! #DIV/0! #DIV/0! #DIV/0! #### #DIV/0! 20/09/2016 #DIV/0! #DIV/0! #DIV/0! #DIV/0! #### #DIV/0! 21/09/2016 #DIV/0! #DIV/0! #DIV/0! #DIV/0! #### #DIV/0! 22/09/2016 #DIV/0! #DIV/0! #DIV/0! #DIV/0! #### #DIV/0! 23/09/2016 #DIV/0! #DIV/0! #DIV/0! #DIV/0! #### #DIV/0! 24/09/2016 18.2 18.7 4.0 3.1 18 48 25/09/2016 14.0 14.7 8.6 16.1 113 226 26/09/2016 12.2 13.0 1.0 1.5 56 114 27/09/2016 14.9 16.0 5.9 10.1 96 189 28/09/2016 17.3 18.1 10.2 6.8 91 185 29/09/2016 14.8 15.0 29.6 36.1 85 172 30/09/2016 12.2 13.5 9.3 12.7 105 212 01/10/2016 10.8 12.4 2.4 3.8 54 110 02/10/2016 9.7 12.2 0.6 0.8 118 245 03/10/2016 11.2 13.9 2.4 2.7 110 229 04/10/2016 13.6 15.8 6.1 6.8 105 211 05/10/2016 13.7 15.2 11.2 12.9 114 235 06/10/2016 11.2 13.2 9.2 14.2 103 215 07/10/2016 12.3 13.4 4.1 4.3 56 121 08/10/2016 12.5 13.4 2.3 3.6 84 185 09/10/2016 10.6 12.0 2.8 3.0 71 151 10/10/2016 9.0 11.0 2.3 3.9 87 184 11/10/2016 9.5 11.0 6.3 8.2 62 135 12/10/2016 11.2 12.3 9.0 8.5 51 111 13/10/2016 9.8 10.8 7.7 10.3 52 116 14/10/2016 10.2 11.9 5.9 7.6 54 123 15/10/2016 10.4 12.2 2.1 1.9 72 162 16/10/2016 11.4 13.2 3.6 4.3 64 147 17/10/2016 11.8 12.8 6.1 10.0 62 144 18/10/2016 10.4 10.1 13.4 18.5 31 71 19/10/2016 11.1 11.9 2.4 2.4 70 156 20/10/2016 9.8 11.2 0.2 0.2 47 108 21/10/2016 8.3 9.7 0.3 0.4 64 131 22/10/2016 7.6 9.9 3.1 5.3 46 106 23/10/2016 8.2 10.0 8.4 13.7 37 91 24/10/2016 8.2 9.8 4.3 5.8 46 108 25/10/2016 9.3 10.3 1.3 2.0 37 88 26/10/2016 12.4 13.4 8.0 13.4 42 101 27/10/2016 13.0 13.8 11.9 20.9 27 66 28/10/2016 12.9 12.7 8.7 0.2 27 70 29/10/2016 13.0 13.4 1.2 1.0 22 56 30/10/2016 11.8 12.6 0.5 0.1 28 73 31/10/2016 #DIV/0! #DIV/0! #DIV/0! #DIV/0! #### #DIV/0! 01/11/2016 8.0 10.2 1.6 3.8 36 92 02/11/2016 5.7 7.8 0.4 0.7 39 97 03/11/2016 6.9 7.4 1.5 0.5 14 37 04/11/2016 8.0 8.8 5.9 8.4 30 79 05/11/2016 5.6 6.5 2.2 3.6 28 71 06/11/2016 4.9 6.3 3.0 5.6 31 75 07/11/2016 3.6 5.1 1.2 2.2 32 75 08/11/2016 1.3 2.1 3.5 1.6 16 44 09/11/2016 3.7 4.5 3.1 0.7 21 66 10/11/2016 7.0 8.4 8.0 12.3 28 74 11/11/2016 4.3 5.3 2.6 2.0 25 66 12/11/2016 9.1 10.7 3.7 2.9 26 71 13/11/2016 8.5 8.7 0.8 1.3 24 65 14/11/2016 11.2 11.6 7.8 10.0 12 35 15/11/2016 11.2 11.9 10.1 3.3 27 73 16/11/2016 9.5 10.1 20.2 23.4 22 60 17/11/2016 6.5 6.7 17.7 13.0 17 47 18/11/2016 4.9 5.1 15.5 18.8 18 53 19/11/2016 4.2 4.8 5.3 7.4 14 41 20/11/2016 2.6 4.7 3.1 1.6 23 66 21/11/2016 3.5 4.6 14.5 20.7 5 15

We have been down this road before haven't we. This will give you the daily readings as a comma separated value file https://www.wunderground.com/weatherstation/WXDailyHistory.asp?ID=IENGLAND1342&day=22&month=11&year=2016&graphspan=day&format=1 You can use a Firefox addon called DwownThemAll to download the complete series between dates. Then merge the files in DOS (CMD prompt) using: copy *.xxx alldailyfiles.csv Where xxx is the file extension of the download files. Then you need to clean those files up a bit to get rid of the headings. Probably for the small data set just opening up in Excel and sorting/delete is as quick as any. Then you are free to do your conditional averaging.

I have separate MCB and RCD units fitted on outside of bathroom wall. I seem to remember they were about 40 quid. Then you will need a large cable to the shower unit and probably some trunking to hide it.

Have you thought of fitting one of these: http://www.anchorpumps.com/new-stuart-turner-techflo-tp-s1-5-bar-twin-positive-standard-shower-pump-whisper-quiet-range-240v-49084?gclid=CIrV98muvNACFQ5mGwodfQcAhA Similar to what I have hanging off my UVC and Header tank. Does not help you with the heat losses from the small cylinder though.

So could the alternative if it is not sized right and your water pressure is not good/consistent enough. I can't think of any reason why you cannot change the breaker. You will need an RCD (or an RCBO) as it is shower. What power shower where you thinking of fitting?

Then you will be needing a 500 lt cylinder then

You can do a theoretical study. Take some basic assumptions and scenarios and run them though Excel (it is what Solver is for). So if you know the quantity of water going though the recovery unit, the temperature differences and the efficiency of the unit, you can get a good idea.

As an experiment 2 years ago, I heated my 200 lt, E7, unvented cylinder to 50°C, then turned it off. Having my usual short showers of about 30 lt of water at 38°C, it lasted two days. So that was about good enough for one person and about 100 lt of water that was warm enough (the last shower it was as hot as it could go, no cold added). As some of you may know, I have limited the times that my E7 comes on to around a maximum of 3 hours a night, so 9 kWh in total. I should really try and find the data and repeat the experiment as I now have more insulation around the cylinder. This is something I have thought of doing, just a bit of rewiring and heating less of my cylinder. Generally, if the water has dropped to below 35°C, then half an hour of topping up (1.5 kWh) is enough for a bath.

I think there are a few confusing things gong on here: There is the 'best' future proof energy source. The most efficient method of using that source. The detail of using that source. Quite simply, we don't know what the future holds, so we can only rely on history. From research I have done in the past, the average energy bill is about 5% of the average wage, almost regardless of which developed country you are in. This consistent mean pricing is brought about by different technologies and build qualities. So you really need to look at other places in the Americas and Northern Europe to see what they are doing. I also have a bit of a plea, can we stop talking of 'taking a shower', 'having a bath' or 'turning the heating on'. These are very subjective terms and don't help anyone design and plan a system. As an example, I have my 'heating on', it is a 1 kW fan. It has been on for about 30 minutes, and as I am going out, will be 'off' in bout 10 (if the thermostat don't kick in). I had a bath this morning, took 80lt of water at 42°C. Now any of us can work out what we are using, so can we before we start talking about 'the top third of the tank' or whatever. Numbers are needed to make these decisions. Thanks.

When I was a kid, my little cousin got a thorn in her finger, she came running to me and asked if I had any cider for it. I asked why she wanted cyder rather than a plaster. She replied that her big sister said she always felt better with a prick in cyder. I will get my coat

Bet you both smelt of rotten fruit after. Dirty fxxkers !! (found a word that the swear filter missed, brilliant)

Hard to say what is best without some detail. But I think that for water heating on a budget either inline heater or E7 and a relatively small cylinder (all depends on occupancy). As for the fabric, it is hard to separate insulation and airtightness. The two work/don't work in conjunction with each other. You can get away with less insulation if you have good airtightness 'after' the insulation i.e. airtight layer on the outside. But, if you have really good airtightness, then you really need to fit MVHR, which puts the price up. Ideally, you want good windows, good floor and ceiling/roof and reasonable walls, it depends of the relative areas where you spend the money. Then design the place to make fitting MVHR easy. Then a small ASHP for the space heating . It could be Air to Air or Air to Water and underfloor heating. If Air to Water, it can be combined with a Sunamp and get some pre heat from the buffer tank. Then PV into the Sunamp. Roof integrated can be cheaper than 'normal' on the roof. The main thing is to look for bargains now and buy them up, even if they are not needed for a year or two.

Some of the older members and refugees may remember that Damon was working and a self setting/programmable room stat. He has asked me to post up a link to the website. Hopefully it is not too commercial and others find the project useful. https://myradbot.com/

Why I never go out with anyone unless they will sleep in a tent on a third date.

Just change the K to another L and spit all over the letter, works a treat.

What are the extra 2 minutes for? or is it best not to ask