Electrician's insulator stripping tool.

[scottishjohn]

think you trying to automate something that is not needed 

10"linemans pliers to cur the T+E to length 

snip center of outer insulation ,pull back earth to slit the outer insulation  then side cutters with notch to strip back  conductors

i can do it quicker than i can type it 

[joe90]

2 minutes ago, scottishjohn said:

then side cutters with notch

 

But we have not all tried to cut a live cable and ended up with a notch in our side cutters ??????.

[scottishjohn]

4 minutes ago, joe90 said:

 

But we have not all tried to cut a live cable and ended up with a notch in our side cutters ??????.

LOL -- 240v just wakes you up a bit 

415v is the one you DON'T mess with 

 not even sure you would get a belt with the modern auto breakers in the consumer unit .

when still in manchester  my best mate was sparkie and he rewired an old house i had,and of course bonded to the bath etc .

long story short --we had a bet he would stand in bath and drop a live cable in while he was standing in it  .

which he did and won a fiver from me -

never got a shock cos his earth bonding was good + electronic circuit breakers kicked in  on consumer unit 

he did recheck it before hand though !!

 

Edited May 10, 2019 by scottishjohn

[jack]

31 minutes ago, scottishjohn said:

think you trying to automate something that is not needed 

 

You may not want or need one, but the fact that there are tens of models of this type of stripping tool available suggests that this sort of automation is considered necessary by the market.  

 

Sure, saving a few seconds per connection if you're only wiring up a few sockets doesn't make the cost of a tool like this worth paying.

 

I don't know how many double sockets we have throughout our house and garage. 50+, for sure. Every one of those is a double socket, then you have a huge number of lighting circuits, and all the other connections at the other end. Saving a few seconds and the cumulative impact on your wrists and fingers for each of hundreds of connections is worth it for my money.

 

 

[scottishjohn]

14 minutes ago, jack said:

You may not want or need one, but the fact that there are tens of models of this type of stripping tool available suggests that this sort of automation is considered necessary by the market.

everybody to their own --I like it simple only need side cutting strippers and linesmans pliers ,screw drivers ,all insulated  VDE type  in the belt to do everything ..

i use one of those type of strippers for the delicate ecu wring ,as that is a bench job ,most of it ,not up ladders and things .

[Onoff]

1 hour ago, scottishjohn said:

think you trying to automate something that is not needed 

10"linemans pliers to cur the T+E to length 

snip center of outer insulation ,pull back earth to slit the outer insulation  then side cutters with notch to strip back  conductors

i can do it quicker than i can type it 

 

Philistine! ?

 

This is how I roll.

 

 

...and why I'll never have money!

[scottishjohn]

2 hours ago, Onoff said:

 

Philistine! ?

 

This is how I roll.

 

 

...and why I'll never have money!

that's the way i would do it on a car where you get oil +water  ,not sure any need on house wiring --bit OTT-, and coloured coded as well !!, not up to date colours though.LOL

all depends where it is and definitely a no-no  having a joint in a wall  of any type

most would just fit a junction box  and fix it to a beam  if you can get at it later -

I like the crimps with heat activated glue in them for cars ,then the heat shrink on top of that .to be honest with the glue crimps there is usually no need for the extra heat shrink ,but it looks pretty ,if you haven,t seen it you can get heat shrink sheave which also has heat activated glue inside it as well ,but gets expensive 

self amalgamating tape is good also for water proofing   if you forget to put outer sleeve on before jointing ,but you would never do that !!

Edited May 10, 2019 by scottishjohn

[Ed Davies]

What cable has/had red and blue wires like that? Is red used for anything in modern colour codes?

[ProDave]

1 hour ago, Ed Davies said:

What cable has/had red and blue wires like that? Is red used for anything in modern colour codes?

What @Onoff picture is showing is a crimped and heat shrinked joint between an old red & black cabe and a new brown & blue cable.  The heatshrink is covering one of the colours of each cable making it look a bit odd.

[Onoff]

3 hours ago, scottishjohn said:

that's the way i would do it on a car where you get oil +water  ,not sure any need on house wiring --bit OTT-, and coloured coded as well !!, not up to date colours though.LOL

all depends where it is and definitely a no-no  having a joint in a wall  of any type

most would just fit a junction box  and fix it to a beam  if you can get at it later -

I like the crimps with heat activated glue in them for cars ,then the heat shrink on top of that .to be honest with the glue crimps there is usually no need for the extra heat shrink ,but it looks pretty ,if you haven,t seen it you can get heat shrink sheave which also has heat activated glue inside it as well ,but gets expensive 

self amalgamating tape is good also for water proofing   if you forget to put outer sleeve on before jointing ,but you would never do that !!

 

No problems with what I've shown plastering it straight in a wall tbh. Hence the extra heat shrink. This is a maintenance free join too unlike a jb with screws. Wagos are deemed maintenance free btw.

 

And yes I like heat shrink crimps too! This was done to crimp old T&E with the stranded earth to new:

 

 

 

 

 

OTT...I'll take it!

 

Edit: I've got so much old colour heat shrink, I'm using it up!

 

Always put a sticker on the cu saying the install is wired in new and old colour schemes.

Edited May 10, 2019 by Onoff

[scottishjohn]

plastering into the wall breaks all sorts of rules ----NO JOINTS in cables especially not in walls 

I don,t make the rules and i,m sure it will be fine -

tell you how silly it is 

my brothers garage next to mine (we were partners till he retired) 

was just sold 

when we built them we had just one mains supply to building and 2 meters one for each ,so there was major 25mm swa cable going from one building to next  up in the purlins 

new man wants to move meter and get his own supply 

 good says i  -then his  meter will be in his building 

sparkie came to look at it and I said

"you got a winner here -you can drag that SWA back to your side and it will be long enough to go to new supply coming in your building "

NO -can,t use that cos its old colour wires --what says I!! put a sticker  on it --no not allowable on a new installation  says he 

so thats about £600 of cable he can,t use 

fine says I , will pull it back my way  for use on maybe my new house 45m of 25mm swa is worth saving 

[Ed Davies]

Ah, yes, didn't notice the little bits of brown and black peeking out of the sheathing.

[Onoff]

45 minutes ago, scottishjohn said:

plastering into the wall breaks all sorts of rules ----NO JOINTS in cables especially not in walls 

I don,t make the rules and i,m sure it will be fine

 

Please point me at where it says that in the regs...I've a copy in front of me.

 

 

Try 526.3 (iv) that this is acceptable.

Edited May 10, 2019 by Onoff

[scottishjohn]

I can,t

but i can tell you form experience with a house we rented to council for battered women +kids 

their sparkies came in had all the switchs out etc and found a good jointed cable and told us that was illegal  and proceeded to pull a complete  new cable in  at their  own expense .

I queried if they could not use a JB --yes but only if it servicable --which inside a wall is not

It could be a common sense thing ,but not the impression they left me with .

we all know that any joint no matter how well made is the most likely first place any  problem is going to happen  .

unless you got a 150m  run of cable why do it anyway ?

[Onoff]

1 minute ago, scottishjohn said:

I can,t

but i can tell you form experience with a house we rented to council for battered women +kids 

their sparkies came in had all the switchs out etc and found a good jointed cable and told us that was illegal  and proceeded to pull a complete  new cable in  at their  own expense .

I queried if they could not use a JB --yes but only if it servicable --which inside a wall is not

It could be a common sense thing ,but not the impression they left me with .

we all know that any joint no matter how well made is the most likely first place any  problem is going to happen  .

unless you got a 150m  run of cable why do it anyway ?

 

Not going to argue with you. I can point to the exact reg that says this can be done. Anyway the "regs" are not statutory (but can be used as a defence in law). Anyone who said the "good jointed cable" was illegal was likely talking out of their arse and on the fiddle. Disagree entirely ref the first place any problem is going to happen is a well made joint. It won't be a properly done crimp it'll be a screw terminal. 

[Jeremy Harris]

7 minutes ago, scottishjohn said:

I can,t

but i can tell you form experience with a house we rented to council for battered women +kids 

their sparkies came in had all the switchs out etc and found a good jointed cable and told us that was illegal  and proceeded to pull a complete  new cable in  at their  own expense .

I queried if they could not use a JB --yes but only if it servicable --which inside a wall is not

It could be a common sense thing ,but not the impression they left me with .

we all know that any joint no matter how well made is the most likely first place any  problem is going to happen  .

unless you got a 150m  run of cable why do it anyway ?

 

 

Joints in  areas that are not accessible are absolutely fine, as long as they are not things like screw terminals.  Crimps, soldered and heat sleeved, or Wagos in a box, are all classified as being compliant with 526.3:

 

Quote

526.3
Every connection shall be accessible for inspection, testing and maintenance, except for the following:
(i)   A joint designed to be buried in the ground
(ii)  A compound-filled or encapsulated joint

(iii)  A connection  between  a  cold  tail and  the  heating element as  in  ceiling heating,  floor  heating or a  trace heating system
(iv)  A joint made by welding, soldering, brazing or appropriate compression tool
(v)  Joints or connections made in equipment by the manufacturer of the product and not intended to be inspected or maintained
(vi)  Equipment complying with BS5733  for a  maintenance-free accessory and marked  with the  symbol  and installed in accordance with the manufacturer's instructions.

 

[Onoff]

Copyright, Design and Patent Acts 1988?

 

Presumably by quoting that from the regs I've broken it? 

[Onoff]

I imagine @scottishjohn coming from the auto industry has some horror stories ref crimps getting wet and failing! When I do an "outside" crimp I dip my wire in silicon grease before crimping. mating crimps get the same treatment. As the Welsh Wizard once said "Not lost a patient yet!". Even convinced my motorbike mad mate into doing it.

[scottishjohn]

thats cleared that up then .

they only read part of the section then --

or maybe council don,t trust their men /subbies  to make proper joints

the joint they found was one I did when doing light switchs on landings for  this 3 storey house as you couldn,t turn lights off for   staircase on all floors when we got it

and yes it was crimped and heat shrunk  .

 

[Onoff]

7 minutes ago, scottishjohn said:

thats cleared that up then .

they only read part of the section then --

or maybe council don,t trust their men /subbies  to make proper joints

the joint they found was one I did when doing light switchs on landings for  this 3 storey house as you couldn,t turn lights off for   staircase on all floors when we got it

and yes it was crimped and heat shrunk  .

 

 

Case in point, elderly person wants their sockets or light switches moved up / down to be more accessible. You would be daft to run a new cable. Ditto when some muppet drills through putting a picture up etc.

 

Council clerks of works can be right funny sods. We used to do a lot with the PSA and never were there a bunch of more anal gits. Mirrors on sticks checking we'd painted under things! When Part P came in here we had BCOs insisting all the sockets and switches in the EXISTING lounge and diner be moved to the Part M heights when someone had an extension done. Caused untold rows. 

 

Dead testing should further prove the quality of the crimp.

Edited May 10, 2019 by Onoff

[scottishjohn]

Just now, Onoff said:

I imagine @scottishjohn coming from the auto industry has some horror stories ref crimps getting wet and failing! When I do an "outside" crimp I dip my wire in silicon grease before crimping. mating crimps get the same treatment. As the Welsh Wizard once said "Not lost a patient yet!". Even convinced my motorbike mad mate into doing it.

the horror stories on auto wiring are more of the twisted  together and taped variety  or "scotch loks" and bad earths .hence why with a new  stand alone ecu system I always made a new loom.

or take it somewhere else  

too many instances of old std looms giving strange problems, nearly impossible to trace  cos of so many splices hidden away inside loom and old age of  std loom -

trying to save customer money  always back fires on you with these sort of things.

I finally decide not ot modify std loom when a 3year old car was showing a 5v drop  on injectors under full  load

it was a type of car i had done many times -so down loaded a map --after modfiyng std ecu connector to take my ecu -

ran it up and it was weak as water at full throttle -adjusted fuelling ,then checked map iwas running nearly twice the opening time on injectors .

lot of head scratching then but a volt meter on injector --at idle 12v -rull power   7v -

problem traced to a bunch of splice in loom --looked perfect -car was only 3 years old -

that was it 

-new loom every time after that

then i found other cars with same -by doing volt test at injectors solve alot of bad running problems on std cars  then as well 

 

 

[Onoff]

13 minutes ago, scottishjohn said:

the horror stories on auto wiring are more of the twisted  together and taped variety  or "scotch loks" and bad earths .hence why with a new  stand alone ecu system I always made a new loom.

or take it somewhere else  

too many instances of old std looms giving strange problems, nearly impossible to trace  cos of so many splices hidden away inside loom and old age of  std loom -

trying to save customer money  always back fires on you with these sort of things.

I finally decide not ot modify std loom when a 3year old car was showing a 5v drop  on injectors under full  load

it was a type of car i had done many times -so down loaded a map --after modfiyng std ecu connector to take my ecu -

ran it up and it was weak as water at full throttle -adjusted fuelling ,then checked map iwas running nearly twice the opening time on injectors .

lot of head scratching then but a volt meter on injector --at idle 12v -rull power   7v -

problem traced to a bunch of splice in loom --looked perfect -car was only 3 years old -

that was it 

-new loom every time after that

then i found other cars with same -by doing volt test at injectors solve alot of bad running problems on std cars  then as well 

 

 

 

Respect. I wouldn't know where to start mapping engines etc!

[Jeremy Harris]

1 hour ago, Onoff said:

Copyright, Design and Patent Acts 1988?

 

Presumably by quoting that from the regs I've broken it? 

 

Not a problem, as I believe that the "fair use" criteria applies ( @jack can possibly say yay or nay, as it's his field of expertise, I think).

 

I may be wrong, but I think that it's acceptable to quote from copyright material in order to illustrate a point, as long as you are not profiting from doing so.  It may well be more subtle than this, but I've allowed quotes from papers and publications that I've written, on that basis.  I have to say that it's rare for people to actually ask before using copyright material though.

 

One case I remember well was a student from Lancaster University that submitted a paper that I'd written as part of his course work.  What he didn't realise was that his supervisor was a friend of mine, who recognised his plagiarism straight away, and who 'phoned me, asking me to write to his student, just to put the wind up him.  I still have the student's abject apology, although I'm not sure that this got him off the hook.