Steel stanchions and Durisol blocks and insulation

[hallega]

An afternoon of getting close up and personal on Durisol blocks, I am very impressed and so is the hubby....makes a change from "we must go down the traditional route of block, cavity, insulation and more block"....NO.....get with the programme!

We are hoping this will also solve the problem for the daughter who has a steel frame to contend with, just spent 10 mins on Sketch up drawing a block with a stanchion in it...seems to work, anyone got any good ideas on cold bridging issues going down this route? We don't have a lot of room on one side as the land belongs to someone else and the building is very close to the boundary, just enough room for cladding and that's about it! The steel will be covered by 40mm of block and whatever cladding she decides on.

Edited April 15, 2019 by hallega

[Russell griffiths]

Somebody on here has just started the exact same thing, they discounted durisol and went with nudura as it was easier to build in the stanchions. 

Cant remember who sorry. 

[Sue B]

Not entirely sure what you are building but Isotex (which is similar to Durisol) have column blocks which we will probably use in our build for 2 columns supporting the overhang on the first floor.   The website is Insulhub.  I may have completely the wrong idea about what you are trying to do though.

Edited April 15, 2019 by Sue B

[ToughButterCup]

10 hours ago, hallega said:

[...]

steel frame to contend with, just spent 10 mins on Sketch up drawing a block with a stanchion in it...seems to work, anyone got any good ideas on cold bridging issues

[...]

 

If the stanchion  crosses from outside through both the insulation and the concrete of a block, then you have a cold bridge through the Durisol. The only way of designing out the cold bridge caused by steel is to build the blocks round the (outside of the?) frame.

 

What did the Durisol trainer suggest when you asked him (Durisol is the most overtly sexist company I have ever met)  the same question?

[Sue B]

55 minutes ago, AnonymousBosch said:

(Durisol is the most overtly sexist company I have ever met) 

 

I noticed that too - another reason for our Isotex choice ?

[hallega]

Well I was rather pleased with the reception, different area maybe. As my daughter and l have spent all the time researching and the hubby "doing" we appear to know what we're talking about (we are very clever at hiding the "I really have no idea what your talking about" syndrome!) Thanks for the advice, and yes it may cause a problem. We are hoping to foam the stanchions first somehow and cut the blocks around them, they were happy with my sketch up design, see below. Because of PD we are not permitted to go outside of the existing build at all.

Our lady rep suggested a mesh under the finish plaster to eliminate hairline cracks, have you plastered yet (not in the pub)... Face blocks on edge above doorways with rebar, cut the top off to get the same height as the walls. Hubby has gone along this morning to watch the pour....they didn't seem to have any platforms inside to assist when walking around with the pump, that should be interesting as on the outside there is a 2.70m drop into the void....hmmmm! 

Are you happy with these blocks, I saw you had problems earlier, it must have been a nightmare, like the 1987 wind that ripped through here and took my barn roof off!

Edited April 16, 2019 by hallega

[hallega]

Sue B, thanks for that will have a look at these. 

[hallega]

Russell, we decided against Nudura as after looking at a couple of builds thought that it was really not for us. When you have another half who has to be dragged out of the "ice age" , (he knows how I think)....it's a problem. Fair due to him though he gave it a go and went on the course. He wasn't keen on the cost of putting up this system, there's a lot a rebar and labour involved, we saw some horrendous sights, wavy walls, blow outs etc., Not for us.

 

He was really against solar until recently when it was get it our loose out of the FIT's we now have 33 panels and they are going great guns, he's telling everyone down the pub now!

[ToughButterCup]

3 hours ago, hallega said:

 

 

I think that that's brilliant. Among other things, it'll be a good quick visual guide about the level to which you are building

The only thing that makes me wonder is the (sometimes) corrosive effect of concrete on some metals. I can't for the life of me remember who knows about that - was it @Ian perhaps or @readiescards ?

Hope they bump into this thread.

[Ian]

4 hours ago, AnonymousBosch said:

 

I think that that's brilliant. Among other things, it'll be a good quick visual guide about the level to which you are building

The only thing that makes me wonder is the (sometimes) corrosive effect of concrete on some metals. I can't for the life of me remember who knows about that - was it @Ian perhaps or @readiescards ?

Hope they bump into this thread.

There's no issues in surrounding the steel column in that sketch with concrete. Concrete in that situation would protect the steel from corrosion. Locations where the steel is not surrounded by concrete (eg the face) should be painted to provide corrosion protection.

[hallega]

Thank you AnonymousBosch, I'll have a look and see if I can find the thread. 

 

Thank you Ian, most informative, we were thinking of painting them at one point, but I see your thinking on this. Cheers.

 

Hubby went to see the pour today, concrete turned up with 20mm ballast and the wrong slump, they had to send it away and wait for the right stuff, he said it went very well, no blow outs, bit of water seeping, he's going along for the waterproofing on the outside in a few days time....we're sucking diesel!

 

[scottishjohn]

the general concenus  is that durisol works fine  -but make sure you decide which side of the wall you want flat --as they are not very dimensionally accurate in the width 

fine for height +length  --but you choose which side you want flat 

if cladding then it will be the outside as hard plastering on inside will take out any differences

Isotex  would seem to be much better in that respect ,but you will see when you visit  both 

[ToughButterCup]

12 hours ago, scottishjohn said:

[...]

-as they are not very dimensionally accurate in the width,  fine for height +length 

[...]

 

Evidence?

I'm not sure that one can distinguish between the level of inaccuracy in all three dimensions : because the inaccuracy to which you refer may well be caused by the variation in drying rates (I think). I say that because I have seen the production process in detail and looked at the drying process on the same trips to the factory. My guess is that inaccurately dimensioned  blocks would be more likely to have been stacked on the edge of the drying stack.

 

The drying process - after an initial drying period, takes place in stacks of blocks . Blocks on the outside of the stack cannot but experience different drying conditions to those in the centre of the stack - the production manager's argument was that all blocks are stacked in the same atmosphere  - which was true. It would have been churlish of me (at the time) to push the point any further. But blocks on the outside of the stack would have been subject to drafts and local variations far more so than those inside the stack. All the blocks come off the (Austrian) block-maker correct to the millimeter. I know, because I measured a small sample in front of the manager. 

 

But to claim that there is (will be) a significant difference in contraction (solidification) in one dimension rather than all three needs  evidence, please.

 

Full disclosure: my house is built with Durisol, and while I would build another using the product I would sample delivered blocks at the time of delivery and reject pallets of blocks that vary more than a few ( 3-4) mm in any axis. Why 3-4 mm? Its a real pain in the Botticelli to compensate for  more than 2mm variance in a layer of blocks. 

[scottishjohn]

20 minutes ago, AnonymousBosch said:

 

Full disclosure: my house is built with Durisol, and while I would build another using the product I would sample delivered blocks at the time of delivery and reject pallets of blocks that vary more than a few ( 3-4) mm in any axis. Why 3-4 mm? Its a real pain in the Botticelli to compensate for  more than 2mm variance in a layer of blocks. 

thank you have just given the evidence required from a someone who has built with them 

having talked to a few people and looked closely at vidoes of people building them you can see the variation in width  

couple that with info from a builder who has used them more than once  who also mentioned same thing but up to 5mm difference  ,without  any prompting .

 no one mentioned to me that length or height were also variable --so i take on what you say 

It is enough to make me think  it is a slightly annoying problem  that is  a continuing issue..

not a problem to someone going to hard render outside or inside  --you can have one side  happy 

 the move to exterior cladding now  is something they did not see when they were first designed  40years  ago ?

 "time to their shit together" for the modern millimetre perfect house

not a problem with other blocks --why theirs?

I have 2 durisol blocks and I submerged one for a week in water -measured it -no change --dryed it out --still no change 

so nothing wrong with the blocks --just need to be finally trimmed at factory  to be consistent  in size

would i use them ?--

IF price was right eg cheaper than the alternatives  by a margin  --yes  and would get round  problem 

 

 

Edited April 17, 2019 by scottishjohn

[scottishjohn]

so to take this further you are saying it is the uk produced blocks that have the problem ?

I did notice in the russian videos the blocks looked very bad .LOL

but maybe half the price ?

Edited April 17, 2019 by scottishjohn

[ToughButterCup]

All I'm saying @scottishjohn, is that I've become  much analytical - not to say critical-  about what suppliers  (of anything) send me.

 

In this case, the lack of accuracy in something as simple as a building block causes significant amounts of aggro downstream. For which I, personally, this time, have had to compensate.  Less aggro sending it back and insisting on accuracy next time.

[hallega]

Thank you guys for the info, we are going to be really busy with the tape measure!!!! 

 

[ToughButterCup]

3 hours ago, hallega said:

Thank you guys for the info, we are going to be really busy with the tape measure!!!! 

 

 

And level (or laser) or taught string line, or all three. Check every single block for line and level.... Twice or three times. 

[hallega]

Hubby uses the laser a lot, marks the floor where the electric boxes are so that he can cut out acurately where the back boxes are in the plasterboard, seems to work Ok.. We are all really looking forward to this build now, it's been a long slog....I'm still waiting for permission for a basement, will know at the end of this month. It took 161 days for the silo's to be refused first time around....ridiculous! 

 

Today I drew up a new Tractor shed on Auto Cad....who hoo....it looks OK, had a temporary scaffolding system with a tin roof and were told "you have to have planning for that" errr why, it's temporary...but NO...SO...I'm going for the jugular...serves em right!

[Sue B]

I believe that the Isotex blocks have a finishing process after they have been dried that the Durisol blocks maybe don’t have or the process is less robust.  Certainly, we could see the difference in the few blocks that we used on the training courses.  The Isotex blocks were also smoother on the outside (you’d still need the gloves) but were obviously more “finished” than the Durisol blocks.  

 

It’s not a huge issue for us, it Is just another factor to add to the decision scales.

[ToughButterCup]

Before I forget, beware of the dust caused by trimming the blocks. It gets in your eyes - and its vicious. Get an eye wash kit. And some form of eye protection. 

[hallega]

Hmmm...looking at the Isotex they don't have the edging as the Durisol block, not having seen these yet I can't make any decisions, but maybe they will be at Grand design show? 

Thanks for the safety aspect re the cutting and eyes, it's all being taken in I can assure you after losing the top of a finger in the family I am Super careful now of everything.

[ToughButterCup]

59 minutes ago, hallega said:

[...]

I can assure you after losing the top of a finger in the family I am Super careful now of everything.

 

I have 8 fingers left, of which 6 work well: the other two are only good for hooking  underneath a pint glass and emptying the dishwasher - I can hang four cups on each - and I can hang unbelievably heavy weights from them - cant feel much. 

 

Used to teach: to base 8, not 10. Great fun watching kids count and re-count my fingers .....?

[Big Neil]

hello @hallega. Marginally off topic (well sort of). Thay picture of the two blocks, Was that done in sketch up. I keep thinking about the design software side of things. IS the block you have drawn saved as an item in the programme which you can then effectively cut and baste to make a wall?

[hallega]

Hi Big Neil, yes it was done in Sketch up, I use it quite often, you can copy and paste the drawing, I'm no expert, but what my daughter has just shown me......OOOOOO!!! 

Command A, Command C, Command V, that will select all, copy all, paste all. That's the shortcuts on my mac, your may be different. If you only need part of the drawing then the arrow at the top left of the tool bar will highlight what you want to copy. Hope this helps. I also use homebyme which shows you in 3D it can also draw a whole house plan, from basement to 1st/2nd floor and place items of furniture etc to scale so you know if things are going to fit in...it's been invaluable. I drew up my new house plans and then sent these to a CAD operator who then drew them up technically. The photo shows my daughters cow shed ground floor plan to give you an idea on what it looks like, you can even walk around the space.