Onoff Posted August 23, 2016 Share Posted August 23, 2016 (edited) Outside the bathroom the mixture of soil and waste pipes is a complete mess. Already partially dug up due to the water leak I decided to make a start to sort it once and for all. So.....up came the concrete path that filled 7/8 jumbo bags! At the mo it's multiple, different colour 110mm pipes & fittings connecting into a clay pipe system underground. First off I need to drill a hole through the cavity wall to connect the soil run from the wall mount wc: So a bit of trimming of the stud wall inside. I'll probably trim enough that I can get a start with a core drill then drill right through with a pilot. Then do one leaf from inside and the other from the outside. I need to tee into this (brown) vertical stack that's all being replaced: The horrible, barely below the surface, brown soil pipe from the, in use, downstairs wc will be brought into this new stack, crossing where the black drain pipe from the gutter is now. The black drain pipe will be moved. Tbh I don't even know where it goes at the mo (probably into the soil system) but the trench in the picture will take it to a soakaway. Pretty much where the brown stack kinks at the bottom is where I need to drill to line up with the first picture. I've only got these: For the 110mm pipe should I use the 110mm drill then curse when I can't quite get the angle or the 125mm drill and fill round the pipe.....or the 110 on the inside and 125 outside? Cheers Edited August 23, 2016 by Onoff Pipe not Pope! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterW Posted August 23, 2016 Share Posted August 23, 2016 125mm all the way - it's only going to give you 7mm wriggle room all round which isn't much. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted August 23, 2016 Author Share Posted August 23, 2016 7 minutes ago, PeterW said: 125mm all the way - it's only going to give you 7mm wriggle room all round which isn't much. Cheers. Just got to hope my Makita SDS holds up! A Makita HR240, it's not been very well of late. Keeps slipping on hammer, don't know if it's an easy box or not? If not it's off to borrow one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterW Posted August 23, 2016 Share Posted August 23, 2016 Shouldn't need hammer with a hole saw..! I take stuff apart and regrease the gearboxes fairly infrequently as they should be sealed - may be the cams/rockers that are worn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted August 23, 2016 Author Share Posted August 23, 2016 1 hour ago, PeterW said: Shouldn't need hammer with a hole saw..! I take stuff apart and regrease the gearboxes fairly infrequently as they should be sealed - may be the cams/rockers that are worn Sorry, I wrote that wrong! When drilling OFF OF HAMMER i.e just rotary, it slips and chatters (sounds like it's on hammer) like there's a torque limiter coming in. Doesn't seem to be working hard enough for this to happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe90 Posted August 23, 2016 Share Posted August 23, 2016 I have just drilled 100mm hole for a soil pipe but forgot the socket in the y piece had to go into the wall so had to kango it bigger, shame, it was so neat when I started ? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vijay Posted August 23, 2016 Share Posted August 23, 2016 8 hours ago, Onoff said: Sorry, I wrote that wrong! When drilling OFF OF HAMMER i.e just rotary, it slips and chatters (sounds like it's on hammer) like there's a torque limiter coming in. Doesn't seem to be working hard enough for this to happen. Pretty sure that's a clutch so it doesn't snap your wrist if the core bit jams Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProDave Posted August 23, 2016 Share Posted August 23, 2016 Sounds like the clutch. First time the drill jammed when I was drilling a stone wall with my SDS, the racket the drill made I thought I had stripped the gears in the gerarbox, but it was the clutch slipping, as said so it didn't break my wrist. Up to that point I didn't even know my SDS drill had a clutch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickfromwales Posted August 23, 2016 Share Posted August 23, 2016 14 hours ago, PeterW said: 125mm all the way - it's only going to give you 7mm wriggle room all round which isn't much. +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickfromwales Posted August 23, 2016 Share Posted August 23, 2016 Sds drills aren't supposed to be used for core drilling That's a recipe for a dead drill. Ask me how many I've done in because I was too lazy to set up my diamond drill. . Better still......don't. Why are you using a TCT core drill bit instead of diamond? And @PeterW, that TCT drill 100% requires hammer action, that's how it works. The drill for coring out with a TCT bit needs to be a slow turning low geared drill with a heavy hammer action. A standard sds drill will be too fast and not hard enough on the hammer. Ask your hire centre and they'll recommend a drill to suit. Get extension bars and drill from one side only. If you try and join up from inside out, even with a pilot, you'll be surprised at how far out it'll be. Trying to re-align / ream that right is pure punishment and a royal pita, again, ask me how I know. Fwiw I'd just hire a good diamond ( not TCT core ) bit and accompanying diamond drill set and it'll fly through in one clean operation. If your sds is slipping now, it'll be in the bin at the end of this job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted August 25, 2016 Author Share Posted August 25, 2016 I'm working on a 2o fall for this soil pipe from the Geberit wall frame does that sound about right? This shows it on the CAD (for the life of me I can't print screen or export with any decent res so this is literally a photo of the screen): The stud wall is a bit of a weird one as the studs get wider as you come away from the corner to take up the taper in the walls. From the corner coming back its 95/100/110/120/120 then the 505mm gap for the frame. I'm planning to drill with a 114mm Starrett, each at the heights shown to give me the taper on the 110mm pipe. The base of each joist will then be reinforced with a bit of 18mm ply where required. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe90 Posted August 25, 2016 Share Posted August 25, 2016 The picture above shows the socket of the y joint outside the wall, if you use standard wall brackets for the rising stack the socket will be into the wall, hence my post above about me drilling a neat hole then having to kango it larger ?. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted August 25, 2016 Author Share Posted August 25, 2016 1 hour ago, joe90 said: The picture above shows the socket of the y joint outside the wall, if you use standard wall brackets for the rising stack the socket will be into the wall, hence my post above about me drilling a neat hole then having to kango it larger ?. Yep, looks to be about 132mm dia and as shown the standard brackets would sit about 2" off the wall. So, as you have I might need to nibble the edge of the hole if I can't get a cutter bigger than 125mm. I imagine solvent weld 110mm fittings would overcome these problems? Just about to start marking out for drilling. Going to partially drill the joists first and and put a pilot thru both wall skins from the inside. I'll then do the joist holes 114mm with the Starrett, then the outer skin 125mm or bigger with the TCT or a core drill. Inner wall skin I might drop to 110mm but drilled from the outside to minimise dust etc. Or I may make it up as I go along! It was whether 2o was an acceptable fall really! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterW Posted August 25, 2016 Share Posted August 25, 2016 2 degrees is fine..! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted August 25, 2016 Author Share Posted August 25, 2016 The slow, dawning, realisation that you can't Starrett the bottoms of these studs out so easy as you affixed them, along with glue, with two of these (Don't wan't to blunt the non Starrett "Starrett"). And of course not enough room to unscrew from the bottom: "Cut them off!" you say.....then came the breaking of the one remaining sabre saw demolition blade moment! Hot on the heels, the "I never noticed that before!" moment when you see there's barely 110mm between the 2"x2" and solid wall behind the blue DPM! Looks like the back of the Aquapanel might need a groove. Along with the "Oh these Saxton blades only cut about 42mm deep and I need 45mm!": Ending with the eenie meenie miney mo moment: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProDave Posted August 25, 2016 Share Posted August 25, 2016 Cut each stud one at a time say 100mm above the level of the pipe. Knock the bottom section out with a FB hammer. Sister a new bit of stud next to it with the required hole drilled in the right place with any required reinforcing. Now please don't tell me it's a load bearing wall........... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted August 25, 2016 Author Share Posted August 25, 2016 7 minutes ago, ProDave said: Cut each stud one at a time say 100mm above the level of the pipe. Knock the bottom section out with a FB hammer. Sister a new bit of stud next to it with the required hole drilled in the right place with any required reinforcing. Now please don't tell me it's a load bearing wall........... I've already cut through the 5 necessary studs with the multi-tool - 42mm from one side and the other 3mm from the other side except the first one (circle drawn on) where I had to take a bit off to get the saw in. The BFH was considered but I need to zing the 6mm screws off too rather than just bend them over. Load bearing, they're basically just deep battens. This wall's not even fixed top or bottom yet! Each stud's on with at least x5 7mm concrete screws and in some cases where these wouldn't bite and around the wc, M10 resin anchored studs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProDave Posted August 25, 2016 Share Posted August 25, 2016 If you obliterate the bottom bit of stud with said FBH, then just snap off the bent screws that remain. The sistered replacement stud will land alongside the resulting mess. Fix with brackets and screws or diagonal nails. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickfromwales Posted August 25, 2016 Share Posted August 25, 2016 Facing that whole elevation with 18mm ply, glued and screwed, will regain the strength you lose from chopping out. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted August 29, 2016 Author Share Posted August 29, 2016 (edited) Cheapo 125mm cutter did the job: Temporarily blocked up for now. All studs chopped out. Sabre saw till I hit the screws then the BFH. Screws zinged off with a slitting disc: Edited August 29, 2016 by Onoff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickfromwales Posted August 30, 2016 Share Posted August 30, 2016 You facing that with ply ? Would save a lot of complication making those studs good again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted August 30, 2016 Author Share Posted August 30, 2016 48 minutes ago, Nickfromwales said: You facing that with ply ? Would save a lot of complication making those studs good again. I wasn't going to no.....though I hear what you're saying. Plan here is Aquapanel. onto the studs then tiles.....if I put ply on THEN Aquapanel it wouldn't marry up with the 1/2" PB further along the wall. I cut some 300mm high 18mm marine ply strips varying in width from 95 to 120mm as the 5 studs get wider as the wall tapers. BUT.....drilling a 114mm hole in each bit would take all the meat out and negate any supporting effect. Time for plan B (C?). Guaranteed it'll be overly complicated! I'll probably cut the studs up a bit further and introduce a tapered sole plate higher up: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickfromwales Posted August 30, 2016 Share Posted August 30, 2016 Raised sole plate is what I did on the last one where I needed to put a soil run at the bottom of a new stud wall, but I also made it 6x2 so the knuckles of the bends were absorbed in the depth and I could then just PB it as normal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted August 30, 2016 Author Share Posted August 30, 2016 12 minutes ago, Nickfromwales said: Raised sole plate is what I did on the last one where I needed to put a soil run at the bottom of a new stud wall, but I also made it 6x2 so the knuckles of the bends were absorbed in the depth and I could then just PB it as normal. Raised sole plate I reckon then, tapered approx . 95 to 120mm. It's only just 110mm where it goes through the wall but the soil pipe can kick in a bit the wall mount wc end to accomodate bend knuckle. Then vertical noggins on the raised sole plate, between the studs. Fix through the noggins to the wall behind. Worth filling around the pipe with expanding foam to quieten things down? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickfromwales Posted August 31, 2016 Share Posted August 31, 2016 Expanding foam doesn't do a JOT for sound deadening a soil pipe, ask me how I know. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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